Hi Grateful,

Yes those verses were chosen at random, actually with my eyes closed.

No, I won't bother being told by some hot-shot what it all means, because frankly I don't really care: as far as I am concerned, the Koran is a book written by men. The hadiths are of course written by men. And it has all been written to keep people in line, with being told not to think for themselves, but to do what they're told.

I will try to make up my own mind what is happening in the world - I will get my basic input from the ABC, SBS, the Australian, the Guardian, whatever is around - and I'll make up my own mind accordingly. And no, the Koran probably won't be on my reading list, except for a bit of light relief. Such as this, from Luqman:

[31.26] What is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's; surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.
[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[31.28] Neither your creation nor your raising is anything but as a single soul; surely Allah is Hearing, Seeing.

Does this mean that there are more Korans to come ? Maybe many more ? But only one every 1400 years ?

No, I don't understand any of the rest of it. And I don't really give a toss. Life is too short to waste on such stuff.

[TBC]

[continued]

One thing that's bugged me, more about Christian church services really: if people believe that god is so brilliant, that he can create this and that with a click of his fingers, then what's the point of praising him ? He has unlimited power. He uses it. End of. It didn't cost him anything. And frankly, he's done some dumb things, so why all the sucking-up and endless, endless bloody praise for something which was effectively just a click of the fingers, no great effort. Monty Python probably got it right.

And of course, if he's lived forever, how come it took him so long to create the world, etc. ? Out of billions of years, he waits around and aits around until the last six thousand. Or 1400, according to the Koran, presumably. He must have got terribly bored in all that time. perhaps with as million species of beetles, he needed time tov think out how that would work. And all those mosquitoes. And blow-flies: why did he invent blow-flies ? He certainly loved insects.

You really are wasting your one and only life, Grateful, on this rubbish. Nothing comes after, so do what you have to do here on earth as best you can, for your fellow human beings. If you do that right, you'll live on, in people's memories. That's as good as it gets.

Joe

Joe, i love you mate (for the sake of Allah :-) ).

First,

"No, I don't understand any of the rest of it. And I don't really give a toss. Life is too short to waste on such stuff."

..but you spend an inordinate amount of time talking about God! Why?

"And of course, if he's lived forever, how come it took him so long to create the world, etc. ? Out of billions of years, he waits around and aits around until the last six thousand. Or 1400, according to the Koran, presumably. He must have got terribly bored in all that time. perhaps with as million species of beetles, he needed time tov think out how that would work. And all those mosquitoes. And blow-flies: why did he invent blow-flies ? He certainly loved insects. "

The Qur'an was first revealed over 1400 years ago, in 610 AD. The Qur'an is silent on when the Earth was formed. As for Allah "waiting around" and getting "terribly bored" He created time.

"One thing that's bugged me, more about Christian church services really: if people believe that god is so brilliant, that he can create this and that with a click of his fingers, then what's the point of praising him ? He has unlimited power. He uses it. End of. It didn't cost him anything. And frankly, he's done some dumb things, so why all the sucking-up and endless, endless bloody praise for something which was effectively just a click of the fingers, no great effort. Monty Python probably got it right."

Short answer: He is the only one worthy of praise!

" Praise belongs to Allah, the Lord of the worlds, the Merciful Compassionate, Possessor of the Judgment Day! Thee do we Worship and of Thee do we ask aid!" (Koran, 1:2-5)

A believer will naturally be grateful that he is a believer for whom he has no-one to thank but Allah. However, this raises the question of predestination and choice. To understand the Muslim perspective in this regard I've give you a quote from "Reliance of the Traveller", classical manual of Islamic Sacred Law Umdat al-Salik by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d1368) in Arabic with Facing English Text, Commentary and Appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Min Keller, pp813-814

"To believe in "destiny, its good and evil" means to be convinced that Allah Most High has ordained both good and evil before creating creation, and all that has been and all that will be only exists through Allah's decree, foreordinance, and will. Early Muslims used to answer whoever asked about destiny by saying, "It is knowing that what hits you was not going to miss, and what misses you was not going to hit.

TBC..

continued..

"As for Allah creating acts, we believe that the real doer of everything is Allah. He is the one who burns, not the fire or the person who lighted the fire; He is the one who cuts, not the knife or the person holding the knife; He is the one who drowns a man, not the water or the person who threw him in, and so forth. Here, people always raise the question that if Allah Most High is the real doer, why are people held responsible? The answer is that Allah Most High does not hold people responsible for creating the act, but rather for choosing the act. One proof of this is that a person who cannot choose, is not held responsible, such as someone asleep, insane, a child, forced, unremembering, or someone who makes an honest mistake. The legal responsibility of such people is lifted because they lack full voluntary choice. Another proof is that Nimrod sinned for choosing to burn Ibrahim (upon whom be peace) even though Ibrahim did not burn (Koran, 21:69); and that Ibrahim (upon whom be peace) became the Friend of the All merciful for choosing to sacrifice his son out of obedience to Allah, even though the knife did not cut and his son was not sacrificed (Koran 37:105), all of this showing that the servant is held responsible for his choice,....

As for Allah's eternal pre-existent knowledge, we believe that Allah knows everything before, during, and after it is, and knows how it is when it occurs. But does the servant have access to this knowledge? Not at all. So the servant chooses to do acts on the basis of a desire within himself, not because he knows Allah's knowledge, and he is held responsible for this choice even though it corresponds with Allah's eternally preexistent knowledge."

TBC...