Secularism, and atheism for that matter, is a religion the way not collecting stamps is a hobby.

We sent our daughter to a state school at age 6, and one day she came home and said someone taught them a whole lot of silly tales about this Jesus person doing magic and said he was real. "But you don't have to worry about me, Mummy" she said. "I stuck my fingers in my ears.". We switched her to a superstition-free independent school where she never had to stick her fingers in her ears again. A human right that every child in the land should have.

Maoris were known cannibals while secularism has an atrocious violent record. The author should not let his Christophobic nature shine so dimly. I would think any rational person would be grateful for Christian values. Then again rationalist believe the gw myth.

JohnBennets wrote:

"They will progressively be replaced by humanist and rationally determined teachings and practices - of this there can be little doubt."

To which Peter L. replied: "Not all religion is irrational."

*

I would like to point out that none of what we do in life is rational, that there are no rational practices - neither religious nor humanist.

Nature does not dictate any "should"s or "ought"s, so adopting these cannot be a rational conclusion, but is an irrational act.
Once we adopted a particular value, then of course we can proceed rationally to try to live accordingly, but the basis of doing so is necessarily irrational.

For example, many take it for granted that it is better to live than to die, but in fact there is nothing rational about it - it's only a subjective preference.
Once one decides that they want to continue living, only then they may take rational steps to stay alive.

*

Toni Lavis then adds:

"Faith, by definition, is irrational"

Very true - and so is faith in humanity. Both are irrational.

It's not wrong to be irrational - we all are!

>> To take the mind of a child and teach them about religion as if it were an established fact, …<<

What else is religion (as a social and psychological phenomenon, in distinction to a set of beliefs about e.g. the “Supernatural”) other than an “established fact”? The same as science (whether at its present or pre-Newton and pre-Darwin stages), or for that matter other human endeavour, are established (social) facts.

Doesn’t the teacher tell children that it is a “fact” that nothing is faster than light without herself understanding Einstein’s theory, not to speak being able to explain it to them; or what a GPS is for, without herself understanding how its working is based on relativity theory?

Or are the children to be denied any access to achievements of the human intellect accumulated over centuries which for a small child can only be explained as “facts”, a term a philosopher (e.g. of science} ora theologian would not use that easily?

It is terribly sad for the future well-being and freedom of today's children, not only in New Zealand, but all across the West, that the foundation-stone of what the West was built on is being steadily demolished by people who have absolutely no understanding of what they are talking about.
Anyone who disagrees that the West - and all its many benefits for humankind - came about because Christianity was used as the 'guide' for a safe and progressive freedom of all humans is simply ignorant of the truth.
While it is a fact that there were - and still are - downsides to the imposition of Christian values, the reality is that Christianity has proved itself to be by far the best 'system' for human wellness.
Using as a yardstick human freedom, wellness and opportunity for individuals to reach their maximum personal potential, Christianity stands far above any other system.
When one honestly considers the 'backwardness' of people who were previously living under any other culture - especially Australian Aborigine and NZ Maori - then there is no doubt that Christianity brought them enormous benefits, even if, as was not uncommon, it had to be 'forced' upon them.
And now they abuse the uniquely Christian principle of freedom of speech in seeking to destroy the hand that still so bountifully feeds them.

G'day Peter,

Here's a brilliant suggestion from Huntington for all of us to think about:

'The great political ideologies of the twentieth century include liberalism socialism, anarchism, corporatism, Marxism, communism, social democracy, conservatism, nationalism, fascism, and Christian democracy.

'They all share one thing in common: they are products of western civilization. No other civilization has generated significant political ideology. The West, however, has never generated a major religion.

'The great religions of the world are all products of non-Western civilizations and, in most cases, pre-date Western civilization. As the world moves out of its Western phase, the ideologies which typified late Western civilization decline, and their place is taken by religions and other culturally based forms of identity and commitment.' [Clash of Civilizations, pp. 53-54]

One could add that all those Western-derived ideologies had, indirectly, at least some of their roots in Christianity, modified in turn from its Judaic roots by the philosophies of Greece, Rome and the Middle East of two thousand years ago. In some ways, Christianity was, after all, a grab-bag of ideologies as well as a grab-bag of fractious religious sects.

As an atheist, I have no problem with tracing some of the origins of those 'western' ideologies ultimately back to one of those grab-bags, and I'm ever thankful for it :)

Cheers,

Joe
www.firztsources.info