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The Forum > Article Comments > Maori ritual and Christian indoctrination in New Zealand > Comments

Maori ritual and Christian indoctrination in New Zealand : Comments

By Ngaire McCarthy, published 19/10/2015

To take the mind of a child and teach them about religion as if it were an established fact, is tantamount to child abuse and the state should not be encouraging it.

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I agree with those who point out that there is an overlap between religion and traditional culture. I do not agree that there are a significant number of folk in either NZ or Oz who "Pray without ceasing", Paul or no Paul. That is simply silly nonsense.

The inevitable future will include reduced reliance on learned practices such as prayer, karaki and, in the Australian context, observance of Aboriginal and Islander rituals.

They will progressively be replaced by humanist and rationally determined teachings and practices - of this there can be little doubt.

The primary question in all cases is not "If?", but "When and how fast will this happen?"

Special interest pleadings, such as we have just read in this article, are very interesting and clearly come from the heart. They must be respected, but also recognised for what they are.
Posted by JohnBennetts, Monday, 19 October 2015 10:18:32 AM
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There are way too many people claiming they know how to raise my child better then me.

I read this article from a reverse view point. In Australia, I avoid the public school system because it is too secular and has fallen for an irrational (IMO) "Rainbow Flag" view and resulting indoctrination. Fortunately I can send my child to another school nearby that suits my view point.

Not all religion is irrational. And there is no neutral view point (like secularism) that should be taught in schools; that's just another religion. Tolerance is the key, however it should be limited to views that are compatible with democratic freedom.
Posted by Peter L, Monday, 19 October 2015 10:51:39 AM
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//Not all religion is irrational.//

Yeah it is. Faith, by definition, is irrational and religions are based on faith.

//that's just another religion//

Secularism is not a religious position like atheism or monotheism; it is simply the principle that religion and the state should be separate. This protects religions from state interference and states from religious interference and I think it's a jolly good idea.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 19 October 2015 11:11:26 AM
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Hi Peter,

Nobody here has yet advocated 'secularism', however that might be taught (although they seem to keep trying it in France), but most certainly secular ideas, which affect and include everybody, should be promoted (see above).

Karl Popper writes that we all have both 'reason' and 'faith' - he himself spoke of his faith in reason, in the scientific method, of trial and error, of the importance of making mistakes and learning from them. Clearly, he also had faith (but not an uncritical faith) in humanity.

In his view, reason and faith operated on different planes, and each could not really be defended or refuted from one plane or the other.

Sounds good enough to me.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 19 October 2015 11:28:36 AM
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Herein is but another rant against Christainity, accompanied by the cacophony of shrill anti-Christain conga liners!

Maybe if a Jew had written this article, it would make sense!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 19 October 2015 11:28:37 AM
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So, now we know that a certain Ms. McCarthy, tucked away in little New Zealand, is against the teaching of anything to do with Christianity in State schools there. Why do we need to know this? It is not uncommon among humanists

Around 200 convicted Kiwi criminals waiting to be deported from Australia might have benefited from a little Christian teaching. The "dogma" could have kept them on the straightand narrow.

The benefits of Western culture 'imposed' on the Maori are actually based on Christianity. Maoris, like all other New Zealanders, are free to make what they will of Christianity, but whether they know it or not, you cannot have the benefits if Western culture without its influence. Just likevAustralia. And, just like Australia, New Zealand could not have the "cultural diversity" Ms. McCarthy seems to accept, without Christianity.

The best thing that could happen for both NZ and Australia is not the removal of a Christian grounding (it's hardly anything else) from State scools, but the removal of education from the State.

And, when railing against "imposed religious beliefs" (Christian ones only, it seems), the lady should remember that we have had 'multiculturalism' imposed on us, not always for the good. Without Christianity, and the freedoms it gives, we would have Islam imposed on us by now.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 19 October 2015 12:56:49 PM
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