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The Forum > Article Comments > Christianity as mother of western liberalism > Comments

Christianity as mother of western liberalism : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 6/10/2015

Siedentop gives us an accessible journey through the transformations of the self from the preclassical Western family, through ancient Greece and Rome and the rise of the church in Europe to the sixteenth century.

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Thanks Peter for an interesting review. A book for my Christmas list, I think.

You touch in this article on your long-held antipathy to liberalism. Has the book caused you to change your views at all?
Posted by Rhian, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 3:03:34 PM
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continued

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is a Christian denomination based in the United States of America. It is the world's largest Baptist denomination and the largest Protestant body in the United States, with nearly 16 million members as of 2012... The word Southern in Southern Baptist Convention stems from its having been founded and rooted in the Southern United States, following a split from northern Baptists over the issue of slavery; the specific issue was whether slave owners could serve as missionaries. Members at a regional convention held in Augusta, Georgia created the SBC in 1845.

St. Paul was a Christian authority on women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle_and_women

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 states: "As in all the churches of the holy one, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate even as the law says. If they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church."

1 Timothy 2: 9-15 (NASB) says:

"Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."

Hypatia had three strikes on her in a newly Christian world being woman, teacher and pagan who refused to adopt Christianity. Hypatia was an astronomer, mathematician and philosopher. In 415 CE she was murdered by a Christian mob possibly sharing the sentiments of Paul. Some historians date the beginning of the Dark Ages from the murder of Hypatia.

Continued
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 3:08:37 PM
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The mere concept of Christianity as mother of western liberalism is an oxymoron.

Western liberalism arose as the influence of the Churches eroded.

Established Christianity opposed western liberalism with all its' strength.

History , it's there to be rewritten !
Posted by Aspley, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 3:34:22 PM
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Continued

The executions of Servetus and of Giordano Bruno who speculated that there were other solar systems along with Galileo’s house arrest continued the hostility to science. Currently Creationism and Intelligent Design are supported by Christians who reject evolution.

When a religion claims to have an exclusive truth and is enjoined to spread it intolerance is a logical result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I

“The Christian persecution of Roman religion under Theodosius I began in 381, after the first couple of years of his reign in the Eastern Empire. In the 380s, Theodosius I reiterated Constantine's ban on former customs of Roman religion, prohibited haruspicy on pain of death, pioneered the criminalization of Magistrates who did not enforce laws against polytheism, broke up some pagan associations and tolerated attacks on Roman temples.

Between 389–392 he promulgated the "Theodosian decrees" (instituting a major change in his religious policies), which removed non-Nicene Christians from church office and abolished the last remaining expressions of Roman religion by making its holidays into workdays, banned blood sacrifices, closed Roman temples, and disbanded the Vestal Virgins. The practices of taking auspices and witchcraft were punished. Theodosius refused to restore the Altar of Victory in the Senate House, as asked by non-Christian senators.

In 392 he became sole Emperor (the last one to claim sole and effective rule over an Empire including the Western provinces). From this moment till the end of his reign in 395, while non-Christians continued to request toleration, he ordered, authorized, or at least failed to punish, the closure or destruction of many temples, holy sites, images and objects of piety throughout the Empire.

In 393 he issued a comprehensive law that prohibited any public non-Christian religious customs, and was particularly oppressive to Manicheans. He is likely to have disbanded the ancient Olympic Games, whose last record of celebration was in 393, though archeological evidence indicates that some games were still held after this date.”

Christianity has supported slavery, monarchic rule, suppression of women, suppression of science and suppression of dissent. Although individual Christians have adopted more enlightened views Christianity generally has been hostile to liberalism.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 3:49:46 PM
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Davidf and Apsley, you are both right on the money.
Sells, Paul was a very strong misogynist.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 4:00:57 PM
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nicknamenick, the enlightenment was 100% christian, left wing religion came 100s of years later & has been taking us backwards to 1917 in Moscow ever since.

david f, everything you said was invented by PROTEST-ant Christians, including ending slavery, 100% Christian.

Aspley, history has already been rewritten by communists, it is now being corrected.

VK3AUU, sorry but you are wrong.
Posted by imacentristmoderate, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 4:18:11 PM
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