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The Forum > Article Comments > Christianity as mother of western liberalism > Comments

Christianity as mother of western liberalism : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 6/10/2015

Siedentop gives us an accessible journey through the transformations of the self from the preclassical Western family, through ancient Greece and Rome and the rise of the church in Europe to the sixteenth century.

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Yuyutsu
When Pontifex maximus of Roman pre-Christians became Pontifex Maximus of the Church, Rome kept on with empty cruel and stressful junk.
There was some reforming in the less Dark Ages, the Gloomy Age, with plentiful supplies of blood in gutters, just like Shia and brother Sunni. An individual sword was just as good as the next sword.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 12:53:33 PM
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HARDLY ANY OF THE COMMENTS HAVE COME CLOSE TO GRASPING THIS TRUTH.

500 years ago enlightened, conservative Christians began PROTESTING about corruption in the church at the time & its co-operation with tyrants in feudalism, serfdom & slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot

were being persecuted by the Roman Catholic church in France, fled to Scotland & the Netherlands. Leading to the reformation of the church in those nations adopting Calvinsim & the desire for egalitarianism, democracy, an end to slavery, feudalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Scots_Invented_the_Modern_World

This is how the British & Dutch Empires became so influential so quickly.

Q, which 2 European nations were first with universal education & health care available to ALL for free, at moderate cost or tax deductible donation.

A, The European average 500 years ago was 2 or 3 children out of 10 literate. Scotland & Holland went to 7, 8 or 9 children out of 10 educated in one generation by having their ministers in church every day teaching literacy, history, citizenship as well as the morals, ethics & principles of Christianity.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100247847/how-we-invented-freedom-and-why-it-matters/
Posted by imacentristmoderate, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 1:57:02 PM
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MY COMMENTS HAVE COME CLOSE TO GRASPING THIS TRUTH.
Scots aren't liberal and pick your weapon, Jock.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 2:05:32 PM
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Hound,

Of course I realise that, Mr. Straw man, and many of them voted for the DLP. That's the Democratic Labor Party, to you, which is now only a rump - one Senator. Archbishop Mannix was a notorious meddler in the Labor movement and Party in the old day.

So, I know a bit about the RC's and the Labor party, but what's your point? Labor and/the Catholic Church aren't part of Western civilization and culture - or what?
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 2:54:25 PM
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“The theme that runs through the book and gives it its coherence is the transition between the natural inequality of pre-Christian Europe and the equality of persons fostered by the faith.”

This is another attempt to rewrite history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

“Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[ The former principle is stressed in classical liberalism while the latter is more evident in social liberalism.] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation.”

Support for divine right is antithetical to democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings

The divine right of kings or divine right is a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving the right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including (in the view of some, especially in Protestant countries or during the reign of Henry VIII of England) the Catholic Church. It is especially favored and promoted by unjust kings, because according to this doctrine, only God can judge an unjust king. The doctrine implies that any attempt to depose the king or to restrict his powers runs contrary to the will of God and may constitute a sacrilegious act. It is often expressed in the phrase "by the Grace of God," attached to the titles of a reigning monarch.

Christianity has not supported freedom of religion. Christianity regarded intolerance of other religions as a virtue.

For most of its existence, Christianity has been the most intolerant of world faiths, doing its best to eliminate all competitors, with Judaism a qualified exception, for which (thanks to some thoughts from Augustine of Hippo) it found space to serve its own theological and social purposes. P. 4 “A History of Christianity” MacCulloch

continued
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 2:59:57 PM
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continued

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10725 is an article I wrote on the burning at the stake of Servetus in Calvin's Geneva in 1553. It was approved by almost all Protestants and Catholics. Servetus doubted the Trinity and discovered pulmonary circulation.

A lone voice, Sebastian Castellio, protested. Castellio said, “To kill a man is not to defend a doctrine, but to kill a man." However, that was in rebuttal to those who thought it was proper to kill heretics.

There is not one condemnation of slavery in the Bible. I visited the pagan shrine at Delphi in Greece a few years ago. There were many inscriptions by Greeks proclaiming that they had freed their slaves. Apparently there was in the ancient world unease about slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

“In the early years of Christianity, slavery was a normal feature of the economy and society in the Roman Empire, and this persisted in different forms and with regional differences well into the Middle Ages. Most Christian figures in that early period such as Saint Augustine, accepted slavery as an inevitability whereas some, such as Saint Patrick (a former slave), were opposed to it.”

John Hope Franklin in “From Slavery to Freedom” wrote:

“In West Africa, where the population was especially dense and from which the great bulk of slaves was secured, Christianity was practically unknown until the Portuguese began to plant missions in the area in the sixteenth century. It was a strange religion, this Christianity, which taught equality and brotherhood and at the same time introduced on a large scale the practice of tearing people from their homes and transporting them to a distant land to become slaves.”

Forrest G. Wood wrote “The Arrogance Of Faith: Christianity and Race in America. It details how Christianity supported apologists for slavery during the colonial period and to the nineteenth century. The largest Protestant sect in the United States was formed to support slavery.

continued
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 6 October 2015 3:02:33 PM
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