Christoper

I think the risk of a major incident justifies stronger security laws even if this upsets Civil Liberties Australia (the organisation you represent).

While you point to (now) publicly available information on JI and al-Quiadi this does not mean that unaffiliated radical Muslim (or even non Muslim) lads (with some knowledge of agricultural chemicals) don't have plans.

These lads (bombers are usually male and young - but not always) may have no record of travel to Muslim countries. They don't need to cross borders to function. They can be trained in Australia or with imagination dream up projects themselves (eg Lee Harvey Oswald as a loner in another place or time!!). This makes them harder to detect - as UK authorities discovered.

Every time there is a new bombing closer to home in our psyche (eg London) the chances of a bombing (copycat "martyrdom") probably gets worse.

So I think that while the chances of being bombed are far less than a fatal traffic accident the potential for terrorist mass murder justifies the course that both sides of Parliament are taking - on this one.

Michaelsen must have written this before the Adam Gadahn video of today.

Being a "doctoral scholar at the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre" is a fancy title but comes with no guarantees to competency or accuracy.

Having actually experienced the IRA bombings of London and Birmingham first hand in decades past, I would suggest such a view is OK in the rarified atmosphere of academia but such a cavalier, frivolous and flowery attitude will leave alot of people saying "sorry" in hindsight.

Personally I am all for sending in clandestine hit teams and bombing these El Qaeda and fellow traveller scum off the face of the earth - same for any of their followers who are standing too close - collateral damage - better their "collateral" than our "collateral".

Christopher Michaelsen position is very reasonable. We should indeed wait until such time as our fellow citizens are murdered, preferable in their beds, before we act.

The city fathers in New Orleans were most reasonable too. Why spend money on strengthen and building up the levee banks, no storm has breeched them to date.

As an individual one is able to refuse the purchase of car, house or health insurance. Reasonable if ones car is never stolen, or involved in an accident etc. Likewise we should not give way any civil liberties, in favour of a terrorist attack that is only a remote theoretical risk.

Christopher look on the bright side. Great financial opportunities will be opened up for the legal eagles as they do their very best to nullify any legislation. Protection of the community is clearly, not a high priority in your scheme of things

Cool anti-green, I like your philosophy. Let's all live in constant fear! I'll start by putting extra locks on my door and buying a gun or two. All this living through the eyes of love, instead of fear, has been exhausting.

Chris is dreaming. I lived in Europe in a muslim immigrant area and people were quite open with me on their hate for America, Jews and love for Bin Laden. Australia through its multicultural blunders has opened itself up to similar fruitloops. I was amazed that there hasn't been more bombings in London. I can see a few young guys souped up with dreams of paradise and their 72 virgins setting themselves off in Melbourne. Suicide bombings didn't occur in Israel once upon a time either. I think we will see many more in Europe.

I agree whole heartedly with with Mr Michaelson.

One of the hallmarks of paranoia it an underlying over valued sense of self worth ie - Clearly they're out to get me becuase I am special !-

It is a dominant theme in the more strident writngs you might find in rags like the Federal Observer or scribblngs of the Heritage Society; Anne Coulter adn the Melbourne barrister Peter Farris is a prime example of that sort of mind set.

Michaelsons points are well made; there's nothing in it for the terrorists and, in spite of the best efforts os some conservative commentators and politicians, we lack the level of intense internal ferment that will breed hardened revolutionaries. Many of us also continue to over value our importance on the world stage.

And in the larger scheme of things as brutal as these acts of terror are life will and should go on. If this is a war and we discount the civilian dead in Iraq and Afghanistan as acceptable losses as the pro war lobby tends to do - our opponents havent exactly had a good record - Add Bali, the twin towers, the Embassy bombing, London and the military casualties and the head count is still pretty low more peole go the races at Birdsville.

While we fear the horror of a violent death we seem to be more fearfull of our values and our excesses being questioned. I mean we have our own forms of female subjugation in forms of pornography and forced prostitution. Few can be proud of our drug culture or the large numbers of Western born retired and semi retired peadophiles who make there homes in Asian cities. We produce a lot to be criticised ourselves..

And while it is a mother hood statement it does have a truth in it when civil libertarians say if we keep ramping up these laws the terrorists have won.