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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia’s terror paranoia is unfounded > Comments

Australia’s terror paranoia is unfounded : Comments

By Christopher Michaelsen, published 12/9/2005

Christopher Michaelsen argues there are good reasons why we need not expect a terrorism attack in Australia.

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Christoper

I think the risk of a major incident justifies stronger security laws even if this upsets Civil Liberties Australia (the organisation you represent).

While you point to (now) publicly available information on JI and al-Quiadi this does not mean that unaffiliated radical Muslim (or even non Muslim) lads (with some knowledge of agricultural chemicals) don't have plans.

These lads (bombers are usually male and young - but not always) may have no record of travel to Muslim countries. They don't need to cross borders to function. They can be trained in Australia or with imagination dream up projects themselves (eg Lee Harvey Oswald as a loner in another place or time!!). This makes them harder to detect - as UK authorities discovered.

Every time there is a new bombing closer to home in our psyche (eg London) the chances of a bombing (copycat "martyrdom") probably gets worse.

So I think that while the chances of being bombed are far less than a fatal traffic accident the potential for terrorist mass murder justifies the course that both sides of Parliament are taking - on this one.
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 12 September 2005 10:26:20 AM
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Michaelsen must have written this before the Adam Gadahn video of today.

Being a "doctoral scholar at the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre" is a fancy title but comes with no guarantees to competency or accuracy.

Having actually experienced the IRA bombings of London and Birmingham first hand in decades past, I would suggest such a view is OK in the rarified atmosphere of academia but such a cavalier, frivolous and flowery attitude will leave alot of people saying "sorry" in hindsight.

Personally I am all for sending in clandestine hit teams and bombing these El Qaeda and fellow traveller scum off the face of the earth - same for any of their followers who are standing too close - collateral damage - better their "collateral" than our "collateral".
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 12 September 2005 12:29:37 PM
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Christopher Michaelsen position is very reasonable. We should indeed wait until such time as our fellow citizens are murdered, preferable in their beds, before we act.

The city fathers in New Orleans were most reasonable too. Why spend money on strengthen and building up the levee banks, no storm has breeched them to date.

As an individual one is able to refuse the purchase of car, house or health insurance. Reasonable if ones car is never stolen, or involved in an accident etc. Likewise we should not give way any civil liberties, in favour of a terrorist attack that is only a remote theoretical risk.

Christopher look on the bright side. Great financial opportunities will be opened up for the legal eagles as they do their very best to nullify any legislation. Protection of the community is clearly, not a high priority in your scheme of things
Posted by anti-green, Monday, 12 September 2005 12:36:18 PM
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Cool anti-green, I like your philosophy. Let's all live in constant fear! I'll start by putting extra locks on my door and buying a gun or two. All this living through the eyes of love, instead of fear, has been exhausting.
Posted by spendocrat, Monday, 12 September 2005 12:47:33 PM
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Chris is dreaming. I lived in Europe in a muslim immigrant area and people were quite open with me on their hate for America, Jews and love for Bin Laden. Australia through its multicultural blunders has opened itself up to similar fruitloops. I was amazed that there hasn't been more bombings in London. I can see a few young guys souped up with dreams of paradise and their 72 virgins setting themselves off in Melbourne. Suicide bombings didn't occur in Israel once upon a time either. I think we will see many more in Europe.
Posted by magic jess, Monday, 12 September 2005 1:33:58 PM
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I agree whole heartedly with with Mr Michaelson.

One of the hallmarks of paranoia it an underlying over valued sense of self worth ie - Clearly they're out to get me becuase I am special !-

It is a dominant theme in the more strident writngs you might find in rags like the Federal Observer or scribblngs of the Heritage Society; Anne Coulter adn the Melbourne barrister Peter Farris is a prime example of that sort of mind set.

Michaelsons points are well made; there's nothing in it for the terrorists and, in spite of the best efforts os some conservative commentators and politicians, we lack the level of intense internal ferment that will breed hardened revolutionaries. Many of us also continue to over value our importance on the world stage.

And in the larger scheme of things as brutal as these acts of terror are life will and should go on. If this is a war and we discount the civilian dead in Iraq and Afghanistan as acceptable losses as the pro war lobby tends to do - our opponents havent exactly had a good record - Add Bali, the twin towers, the Embassy bombing, London and the military casualties and the head count is still pretty low more peole go the races at Birdsville.

While we fear the horror of a violent death we seem to be more fearfull of our values and our excesses being questioned. I mean we have our own forms of female subjugation in forms of pornography and forced prostitution. Few can be proud of our drug culture or the large numbers of Western born retired and semi retired peadophiles who make there homes in Asian cities. We produce a lot to be criticised ourselves..

And while it is a mother hood statement it does have a truth in it when civil libertarians say if we keep ramping up these laws the terrorists have won.
Posted by sneekeepete, Monday, 12 September 2005 1:34:13 PM
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Christopher, we could agree with your conception these days of our terror, as we might call it. But as an old retired farmer who was lucky enough to gain mature age admittance among a group of young un's doing a major in International Relations during the Cold War, with an American teacher, incidently, one point that was stressed, was the ability of astute but battling leaders to secure their positions by revving up some incident or scenario as Margaret Thatcher was able to do with the Falklands incident.

The Canadian philosopher John Ralston Saul did accuse George W Bush of using the aftermath of 9/11, too much to build up the President's own popularity, when looking back at the build-up of hatred and terrorism since, Ralston Saul may prove in the end to have been spot on. Further, considering the increasingly doubtful success of the Iraq venture except possibly to help allay our oil problems, as far as making the Middle East Arabs happier, could be very doubtful.

Thus even our dscendants may have to live with an even more dangerous style of terrorism, built up in the first place by over-reacting and using the revenge factor, rather than using wisdom and understanding, or insight gained by looking back through history to learn from similar occurrences.
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 12 September 2005 1:36:21 PM
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Terrorism is really a side issue compared to a range of more insidious problems. These include weather disasters, entrenched current inequality, funding of care for the future needy and decreasingly affordable energy and water. These problems will generate far more human misery yet advocates of needlessly draconian laws seem silent on the bigger picture. Perhaps they don't know how to prevent, only how to punish.
Posted by Taswegian, Monday, 12 September 2005 1:50:45 PM
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Bushbred, I agree that the occupation of Iraq was mainly about oil and that occupation has increased the chances of Islamic terrorism (if thats what you are saying).

This also means that the countries whose forces occupy Iraq are at greater risk of revenge bombing. Christopher's suggestion (that Spanish-Muslim "Moor" clashes and torture before and during the Spanish Inquisition was really behind the Madrid bombing) was a little farfetched - even if al-Quaida's propaganda arm suggested it.

Regarding Howard "revving up" the terrorist threat for any nasty ends. Its a pretty important subject to rev up given the risk of explosions larger than London's in Australia (eg Melbourne).
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 12 September 2005 2:00:59 PM
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Here is an anecdote of my time in Multicultural London.
One day in 2002 I was in Wood Green. I was minding my own business when I happened upon a muslim stall and people shouting into a microphone about the various immoralites found in the society to which they or their parents had migrated. How very tolerant of them. Anyway I saw a lot of anti- israel stuff - So I asked one guy "why do you hate Israel?" He said "because they occupy Muslim land". I said Why don't you blow up Spain? It was muslim too once". He refused to accept this thinking saying "ah but those people rejected islam etc" I said no "the muslims were expelled to Morrocco". I forced his little Allahbot brain to accept the logic. He then agreed Jihad was necessary against Spain. I then said that I was Cornish and descended from the people forced out by the English courtesy of religious tithes and a famine to South Australia, and that he had invaded my land and I had the right to kill him. He said no he was invited in by the English (invaded 440AD) and that my problem was with them. I then said why don't you blame the English for letting the Jews into Palestine? All he could do was smile.

Remember this was May 2002. And it can't happen here Chris?
Posted by magic jess, Monday, 12 September 2005 2:04:43 PM
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Part 1

Perhaps the first issue ought to be what is “TERRORISM” and what is a “TERRORIST”!

Isn’t TERRORISM something like where a person by fear abuse or other denial of freedom seeks to subject another person to his/her demands in an unlawful manner?

Isn’t a terrorist whom pursues to execute TERRORISM in that regard?

We have now a reference to the Kurt’s having been “FREEDOM FIGHTERS” during their murderous campaign while Saddam Hussein was in power. So, we have our vision blurred as to accept some form of terrorism being freedom fighting, while others doing the same are held to be terrorist.

We have that the coalition of the willing were “LIBERATING” people, when they commenced to bobs a restaurant and so killing its innocent workers, because they hoped to kill Saddam Hussein, a Head of State.

Again, to others this was a war crime, and terrorism upon another nation uncalled for.

We have that the Commonwealth of Australia now terrorize Australians by deporting them as Stateless because they happen to be born in a detention center with aliens as parents, regardless that constitutionally they are and remain native born Australians.

Isn’t that a form of terrorism?

We have that the Commonwealth of Australia detain/deport people, such as Vivian solon, with a total disregard of their constitutional and other rights! Is that not a form of terrorism?

Looks to me that the so called “terrorist” are doing a fine job without needing to get to the Commonwealth of Australia, as the moment they anywhere in the world take action we have the Commonwealth of Australia passing further (albeit unconstitutional) legislation!

We are more terrorized by our own government then many may seem to relies.
The moment you trade liberty for security you have neither! This, as your liberty is your security!

With MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL®, a special lifeline service since 1982, I had to deal with people contemplating suicide/murder even blowing up buildings. No, nothing to do with any religion or nationality, just due to despair caused within the Commonwealth of Australia
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Monday, 12 September 2005 2:16:28 PM
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Part 2

We can regulate as much as we can and end up imprisoning every person in the Commonwealth of Australia and still end up being bombed to smithereens, because it is so easy to do it.
While everyone is concentrating on the terrorist being somehow someone with a banner across his/her body announcing “TERRORIST”, or so, we might find that we will end up having a so called “TERRORIST” home grown, and not having anything to do with religion or nationality but simply to do with someone wanting to cause maximum destruction as some kind of self gratifying pay back for what the person considers was an injustice to him/her.

THE MORE WE MEDDLE INTO OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS, WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION, THE MORE LIKELY WE END UP TO ANSWER FOR THAT.

Call this terrorism or whatever you want, but it is simply that we went on an elaborate way to murder innocent people in Iraq, destroying their infrastructure, and while we seem to be self gratuitous that this kind of murder spree is all justified for “LIBERATING” people, we somehow cannot see the same when others may apply those same standards to LIBERATE us from what they may perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a terrorizing government.

Why is it that the death of people in the September 11 hand made disaster is less then the hand made disaster in Iraq where far more people were killed and more buildings and infrastructure was destroyed?

It is perhaps that our views are obscured by what we self righteous accept being permissible and what not?

The Commonwealth of Australia has constitutionally no powers to interfere with civil liberties and political liberties, yet somehow we as a nation allow this to happen.

Why then do we need terrorist if we ourself condone terrorism by our own government?

See also my 30 September 2003 published book;
INSPECTOR-RIKATI® on CITIZENSHIP
A book on CD about Australians unduly harmed.
ISBN 0-9580569-6-X

Lets not pretend to trade our civil liberties for freedom as we will loose the lot.
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Monday, 12 September 2005 2:17:14 PM
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Chris these pagan terrorists do not to have a reason other than terrorism.They do not need another country close by to escape too. Chris read their books, listen to their teachers, see what they are doing o/seas they are mindless death loving terrorists.
Someone will say that only a few commit these acts, yes and the majority are silent, very very silent. These quiet ones will do as they are ordered when the time comes,as they see themselves as obedient moslems. They have no other choice other than death for themselves and their families at the hands of their own. numbat
Posted by numbat, Monday, 12 September 2005 2:34:44 PM
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'hate for America, Jews and love for Bin Laden'

There's so much of this attitude around - people somehow equate people who don't like war to somehow....loving terrorists? It's...really creepy. I mean, what the hell kind of logic is that, really?

Let's face it, Australia is a far away country with a tiny population, no ones that interested in us. If I was a terrorist I sure as hell wouldn't bother. Then again, we did side with the US...I guess that increases our chances of being a target from 0% to 0.1%.

You know what scares me more? Soap. Every day I get into the shower and think: "This is it. This is the day I'm going to slip on the soap and die."

So I've fortified my soap holder with six inches of airtight, waterproof, bulletproof steel, ordered random searches for everyone entering my bathroom, and electronic tags for suspected suicide soapers. Of course the crazy liberal left will say I'm taking away civil bathroom liberties by enclosing security cameras at all angles and detaining suspected soapers for up to 14 days with no charge, but I recognise the risk and I act, you see.

Can't be too careful.
Posted by spendocrat, Monday, 12 September 2005 3:53:32 PM
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The terrorist have won the opening battles of this war on terrorism. They are winning because western governments are using the fear factor to get reelected and because average Joe can not realistic evaluation of the risk. While governments like ours fuel the fire so will there will be terrorist.
Posted by Kenny, Monday, 12 September 2005 5:40:49 PM
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‘Protection of the community is clearly, not a high priority in your scheme of things’

Dear anti-green (and Col Rouge and Plantagenet),

the protection of the community, and more important, of the individual is a high priority in my scheme of things. And that’s why I would very much like to see the adoption of a bill of rights in this country, so that the rights of every member of the community were better protected.

But my piece on the terror threat is not about this topic. The only point I’d like to make in relation to ‘protection’ and repressive anti-terror laws is that it appears that those who advocate draconian measures often have no idea of what difference they will make to the terrorist threat. How far are such measures based on fair estimates of actual consequences rather than on the felt need for reprisal or the comforts of purely symbolic action? And it is exactly effectiveness that makes many of the old counterterror-measures and also the new proposals highly questionable.

Let me give you an example: A reduction in due process guarantees, for instance, may make it more likely that terrorist suspects will be convicted. And that, people will say, is surely a good thing. Is it? What reason is there to suppose that our security is enhanced by making the conviction and punishment of suspects more likely? We know that the conviction and punishment of an Al-Qaeda fanatic, for example, will have no general deterrent effect; if anything, it will have the opposite effect - making it more rather than less likely that the country punishing the suspect is subject to terrorist attack. Of course, this is not a reason for not punishing the perpetrators of murderous attacks, but the reasons for punishing them are reasons of justice, not security (via general deterrence).

and btw, I couldn’t agree more, spendocrat. And Adam G's video today doesn't change anything, really.

Cheers,
CM
Ps. Magic jess, I spent 25 years of my life living in Europe and cannot confirm your experiences/observations.
Posted by chrismic, Monday, 12 September 2005 6:01:08 PM
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The whole foundation and objective of this article went up in smoke today.

The article "We don't have much to worry about here.. "
(Supporting fact 1,
supporting fact 2,
supporting fact 3)

But now we had a video in which an Islamist declares "Los Angeles and MELBOURNE" are targets.

So much for the authors well put together bit of 'bs' :

Perhaps some scrutiny of Revelation would be in order

Chapter 4
1After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." .....

To find out the exciting next step in history... read the rest urselves :)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=4&version=31
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 12 September 2005 7:16:32 PM
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Dear BOAZ_David,

let me quote the SMH and the A-G instead:

Despite its likely authenticity, Mr Ruddock cautioned against giving the message too much weight.

"Relevant agencies are currently assessing the statements made in the video but at this stage indications are that it is authentic," he told Parliament.

"But that does not mean the statements in it are anything more than rhetoric."

"It also appeared on its face to be little more than anti-Western rhetoric. The information contained in the video does not provide any basis to change the threat levels to Australia or Australian interests overseas."

I don't agree with the A-G often, but couldn't do so more on this.
Posted by chrismic, Monday, 12 September 2005 7:52:02 PM
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I have to say that I hope Christopher proves to be correct in his assessment, although I've always opposed our involvement in the so-called coalition of the willing at least in part because I think that we have invited retribution from the amorphous "enemy" in the nonsensical "war against terror" by stupidly putting our hands up as combatants.

That said, I reckon that events in the past few years demonstrate the pressing need we have to codify our civil rights, before this government legislates them away under the guise of perceived terrorism. Ironically, I didn't think that prior to the Tampa debacle that unleashed the dogs of racist paranoia once again in our society - thus providing the impetus for the very disturbing tends today.

I don't think I've ever read such hateful commentary as I do at this On Line Opinion web site. It scares me in much the same way as talk-back radio does.
Posted by mahatma duck, Monday, 12 September 2005 8:06:04 PM
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From the article on website
http://www.foriegnaffairs.org
Europe's Angry Muslims

"Contrary to what many Americans concluded during Washington's dispute with Paris in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq, France is the exception to general European complacency. Well before September 11, France had deployed the most robust counterterrorism regime of any Western country. Irish terrorism may have diverted British attention from jihad, as has Basque terrorism in Spain, but Algerian terrorism worked the opposite effect in France.

To prevent proselytizing among its mostly North African Muslim community, during the 1990s the energetic French state denied asylum to radical Islamists even while they were being welcomed by its neighbors. Fearing, as Kepel puts it, that contagion would turn "the social malaise felt by Muslims in the suburbs of major cities" into extremism and terrorism, the French government cracked down on jihadists, detaining suspects for as long as four days without charging them or allowing them access to a lawyer. Today no place of worship is off limits to the police in secular France. Hate speech is rewarded with a visit from the police, blacklisting, and the prospect of deportation. These practices are consistent with the strict Gallic assimilationist model that bars religion from the public sphere (hence the headscarf dispute).

Contrast the French approach to the United Kingdom's separatist form of multiculturalism, which offered radical Arab Islamists refuge and the opportunity to preach openly, while stepping up surveillance of them. French youth could still tune into jihadist messages on satellite television and the Internet, but in the United Kingdom open radical preaching spawned terrorist cells. Most of the rest of Europe adopted the relaxed British approach, but with less surveillance."
Posted by minuet, Monday, 12 September 2005 11:34:33 PM
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Dear Chris
thanx for noting my comments and responding.

I sense that various elements in our society have an interest in either 'talking up' or 'talking down' the threat situation.

Those talking it 'up' would want to milk any hint of threat for its maximum political value, and vice versa for the other mob.

Looking just at the facts though, I would think that the specific mention of "Melbourne" from a person who is reported to have 'gone native' into radical Islam and is purported to be bunkered down in Afghanistan or Waziristan or some stan.... would have more credibility than the Sydney morning herald :)

But I'm more concerned that if anything does happen, that people are 'ready' on the outside with vigilance, and the inside, if they are called on to have a one on one with their Creator.

I can read your mind :) "aargggh.. he lost me right there"..... ?
Hope not. What would life be without the odd 'godbotherer' here and there to give our unique view of things.

But again, on the article and the general social/policital situation these days, I feel that all would benefit from a reading of the history of Islam and especially the time of Mohamed and the various battles he fought to establish his religion.

The contrast could not be more stark.
-Mohamed has the 'battle of Uhud'
Christ 'sends out the seventy to heal, and preach'
-Mohamed has the battle of Badr
Christ says "We are going up to Jerusalem where the Son of man will be crucified"
-Mohamed Invades Mecca
Christ said "As the Father has sent me, so I send you"
"by this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love, one for another"
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 7:39:05 AM
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Mr Michaelsen you are kidding aren't you? Porous borders, symbolic targets, support for extremists, and on the doorstep of the largest population of muslims in the world- Australia has it all.
Contrary to popular belief it wasn't Iraq that made us a target but actually our involvement in East Timor. That coupled with a continued presence in Afghanistan makes an attack inevitable-when not if.
There is too much hysteria surrounding the problem but to an extent that is understandable.
Hate to be rude but if that article was graded, a pass conceded would be complimentary...
Posted by wre, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 9:31:48 AM
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"creepy" has to be the operative word?

Anyone who does not invest in Fear & Punish tactics - must be promoting terror.

What ever happened to understanding CAUSE?

Wake Up Australia - we have the knowledge to think and DO differently.

Thank You Taswegian who said;

"Terrorism is really a side issue compared to a range of more insidious problems. These include weather disasters, entrenched current inequality, funding of care for the future needy and decreasingly affordable energy and water. These problems will generate far more human misery yet advocates of needlessly draconian laws seem silent on the bigger picture. Perhaps they don't know how to prevent, only how to punish."

Also Thank You ABC Lateline and SBS Dateline and those other shows, who give us interviews of thinkers, who help us dissect and see through these arguements.

Last Monday nights Lateline was particularly useful.

I am flagging some of these recent interviews from http://www.miacat.com/ while we await the outcome of the 2005 World Summit Talks - if anyone is interested.
Posted by miacat, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 9:47:29 AM
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I disagree with the article. I don't think a wave of paranoia is sweeping our country but I do think many people are concerned that we may be on the list of countries that are to enjoy the civilising influence of Pax Islamica delivered by al-Qaeda.

Furthermore, we should not rely on the veraciousness of answers given by muslims who are subject to police interrogation. Upholding the traditions enunciated by revered muslim icon Al-Ghazzali*, muslims employ al-Taqiyya and kitman when it suits. Maybe we have become so sophisticated in 2005 that we don't have the tools or skills to deal with a 7th century redux. To better explain what I am saying, we had the piquant situation of a muslim who migrated to Australia to enjoy the freedoms, lifestyle etc., reject our education system for the superior model on offer in Pakistan when looking for a school for his kids. Are we to believe that it is Pakistan that is turning out pansophists. I have parked myself at the Qantas departure lounge and to date have not spotted his kids waiting to board QF43 that will take them to Pakistan.

Thanks Chris for addressing an important issue.

*Al-Ghazzali, "the famous 11th-century Muslim theologian, claimed that the lie is not wrong in itself. If the lie is the way to achieve good results, then it is permissible. It is necessary to lie when the truth might lead to unpleasant or undesired results".
Posted by Sage, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 10:46:41 AM
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These new laws are totally unnecessary. The purpose of the new video is to spread fear amongst the population. Who gains from this?
Obviously the government, as can be seen from some of the comments above in the sense that people are already alarmed and are calling for tougher laws and backing the new ones.
Do the terrorists gain? Only slightly. They spread terror with bombs, not videos. It sounds like a typical beat-up. Treat it with caution.
I support Christopher Michaelsen's views. feralx
Posted by feralx, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 11:48:41 AM
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Chrismic

You obviously misunderstand my position.

I believe those who support this country but waver in their social responsibility deserve the right to fair trial etc.

I believe those who ferment treason or participate on attacks this country deserve a bullet.

I am not particularly interested in fancy notions of “fair-play” or “open justice” for people who have declared war on civilised society. As I suggested originally – send in (I think the term is) a “wet” team and forego the niceties, expense and risks of a trial.

If you think that is barbaric – too bad – better barbaric and talking about it than dead from being struck by the expanding body parts of a suicide bomber.

Oh and on the matter of people who might have recently migrated to a country and then expect to disregard the prevailing social conventions of that country –

the “price” of immigration is assimilation.

Surrendering ancient religious or social or ethnic beliefs which set people against the hosting society is not optional – it is a mandatory requirement for you and your children and your childrens’ children - otherwise – find somewhere else to live.
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:31:46 PM
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Ouch, Col Rouge. I guess you'll be abandoning your culture and learning the didgeridoo then? Attaboy.
Posted by spendocrat, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 1:23:44 PM
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Chrismic

Though I don't necessarily agree with your points I think they are well made.

While I think the proposed security laws should be made they can be toned down as they go through Parliament to reduce the damaging effects and risks (of isolating/victimising Muslims) that you refer to.

I think that in the inter-Party horse trading over wording of the security bills the ALP will insist on changes that the government will accept - otherwise the government will appear too rightwing (even inflamatory) on this issue.

It seems highly likely that all major parties will support passage of these bills.

So while rational debating (we've seen a few lapses, from the extreme right) on this site won't stop this process, it can at least make those in AGs, who draft the bills, think twice.

Plantagenet
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 1:31:03 PM
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Honestly, this article is a long awaited up-to-date publication.

Just from the States, I witnessed both “anti-terrorist” paranoia actively cultivated in NYC by particular local politicians, and deliberations of a practical prevention of recently known devastating tragedy of New Orleans, much sustained by all the variety of long-term developments, multiplied with most recent privatization of vital services there.

To me,has Australia possessed a place as propagandist rather then significant terro goal, the separating the homeland security issues from foreign affairs/interests, as a clear attempt undertaken by Christopher, sounds rather naïve than substantiated with any means historically. And rejecting the possible terro-occurrence does not make any eventual victim of a probable terroact much happy anyway.

Speaking of “integration of Muslims” triggers a very question of a de-facto racist notion of “Australian multiculturalism” that is practical segregation and apartheid between various groups of population in accordance with race/biology/religion.

It should be good to analyze practice of an employment (and possibilities to be qualified from ANY non-specially-religious university)in Australia where, a practically acquainted one could hardly argue, non-Anglo-Saxons have been destined to FAMILY BUSSINESS and some sort of guinea pigs activities at laboratories (read newspapers) at the bottom of this FREE DEMOCRACY predominantly.

Such a situation as understood from media very much sustained London blasts, and resent preparations by UK local Muslim activists to arrange own inquiry into a reality of a “British democracy” their people-the A u s t r a l i a n Q u e e n subjects experience in the UK, like it or not, is a logical step.

Nothing can forgive terror, but in a state established by land-grabbing where, as understood from works by prominent experts in a field, production and creativity have been sacrificed to please a higher metropolitan sovereign, problems are much more explicit and urgent, and pure police-style-solutions-as-usual in this case at least could hardly serve this country properly in a long-time period.
Posted by MichaelK., Tuesday, 13 September 2005 2:54:34 PM
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MichaelK

I have to assume that someone has attempted to translate your piece (originally in Arabic?) into English.

Would it be possible if you could post a clearer translation so we could more easily understand the large number of interesting concepts in it?

Seperately, this month's special heads of government terrorism summit provide's an additional opportunity for horse-trading on the wording of the future terrorism bills (laws). It would be unfortunate if Western Australia's odd suggestion that policemen sign their own warrants (permissions) becomes standard Australia-wide.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 9:24:35 AM
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Spendo... aah.. will the ever be an end to the counselling u need boy :)

Col is quite correct, though a little more rabid than I'd be.

The point you raise is an important one about learning the didgeridoo, I can predict Cols response, and its mine also, the prevailing culture now, is the Anglo European.
My own response is that yes, we must recognize (and respect) that cultural status quo, we should at the same time, seek in every way possible to include and uplift the indigenous population.
Nobody wants to feel 'defeated' for the rest of their lives, and one say of overcoming that, is to reach out in as many ways as we can to indigenous Australians, encourage them to participate and help them to recognize that its not just 'them' who lost a territory battle, we are all decendants of 'losers' (who may have previously been winners).

I don't see paranoia in the community, I just see concern. After the first big bang it might become temporary paranoia.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 9:39:26 AM
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<MichaelK

I have to assume that someone has attempted to translate your piece (originally in Arabic?) into English.

Would it be possible if you could post a clearer translation so we could more easily understand the large number of interesting concepts in it?

Seperately, this month's special heads of government terrorism summit provide's an additional opportunity for horse-trading on the wording of the future terrorism bills (laws). It would be unfortunate if Western Australia's odd suggestion that policemen sign their own warrants (permissions) becomes standard Australia-wide.

Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 9:24:35 AM>
_ - - - - - _ - - - - -_ - - - - -_ - - - - -_ - - - - -_ - - - - -_

Unwillingness (or simply i n c a p a b i l i t y caused by the all system of a local education) to understand a different opinion is probably the most polite word to characterize institutionally racist local reality. Thus, should one be wondering for suggestions ergarding either probable future or preventing it, proposals?

And spell/grammar checking is OK.
Posted by MichaelK., Wednesday, 14 September 2005 11:52:28 AM
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BOAZ - nice to see you've calmed down a bit.

If there is a 'prevailing culture' now, it's one that accepts (or at least should accept) multiculturalism. The concept of the 'aussie way of life', a very vague idea in itself, includes a 'live and let live' policy. It does not suggest people from other backgrounds be forced to live the way we do, simply because we share the same soil.

What Col was suggesting was thinly disguised fascism. 'Do it our way or face the consequences' has never been part of our democracy (or culture, for that matter).

Besides, how does it affect you if people have different beliefs, philosophies, clothes, whatever? Your lifestyle is not threatened. So don't threaten theirs.

I strongly believe that the more variation there is in a culture, the stronger society becomes as a result.

That's why I have to laugh when I see things like those bumper stickers on cars that say 'F- Off, We're Full'. Cause last time I checked, Australia had a decent chunk of space. Also, these stickers are usually on utes owned by redneck trash with seven howling inbred spawn kids riding on back. I mean, seriously. Worried about the country filling up? Stop having kids!!

Some people!
Posted by spendocrat, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 4:17:32 PM
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Regretfully, at the time of the Tampa incident much hatred was published on the Internet. In fact, I published later in 2002 in my book;

INSPECTOR-RIKATI® and the BANANA REPUBLIC AUSTRALIA
Dictatorship & deaths by stealth- Preliminary book edition on CD
ISBN 0-9580569-3-5

There were Australians then making clear they were willing to go out and shoot refugees as to stop the terrorist coming in!

This is what our society has been reduced to, showing hatred to people, not be cause they did something wrong, but because politicians purported this to be so. The “CHILDREN OVERBOARD” is a clear example. The “WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION” is another CON JOB.

Then take the TELSTRA issue;
8BY Winding?up of Telstra not prevented by this Act
This Act does not, by implication, prevent Telstra being wound up in accordance with the Corporations Act 2001.

Just ask yourself what security have we got at all that the sale will present the benefit to the people in the bush, and anywhere else for that matter, if it is closed down altogether?

We are conned left-right and centre by the very people who are to represent us, and now terrorized by the same as to rob us more and more of our civil rights.

How many times have terrorist legislations been implemented without being used and we will continue this merry go around each time somewhere in the world something happens, regardless if it never happens here.

Lets be realistic, nothing in the world will stop person determined on a terrorist attack!
We can however seek to minimize it by not attacking each other but to combine our efforts. Currently the so called anti terrorist laws only divide the nation!

And, for any suicide bomber, it hardly make one of iota difference if he can be imprisoned for 2 days, or 2 years, without trial as his aim is to kill himself, and so not worried about draconic laws. We THE PEOPLE, are suffering because of it, as untested legislation keeps getting absurd more and more, and we are then the victim of those terrorist laws!
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 4:28:32 PM
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All this talk of 'con jobs', and conspiracy theories!? At times I'm half expecting somebody to start rambling on about Mossad agents really being responsible for September 11, and President Bush being part of a sect that dresses up naked in the Apalations before sitting down to sing songs about economic empires around an open camp fire...

Have any of you leftist activists stopped to consider that the true heroes of the left- Luther King, Torrijos, and Guevara-died years ago, along with Vietnam and contemporary warfare? I don't think you have because your objectivity is still clouded by your desire to tell stories of civil disobedience, and brag about 'causes.' Terrorism is a real threat to Australia, and there is NO justification for it.

No matter how terrorism is motivated it is still terrorism. The day that was lost sight of was the day terrorists gained legitimacy, and stole attention from the true statesman. In fact one can draw a line between Al Qaeda and Peaceful Arab Activists similar to that between Illegal Immigrants, and those who queue.

There is no difference between children being thrown into the ocean, and finding themselves submerged after a boat propelled by organised crime sinks. Just as there is no difference between bombing a bus for no reason, and bombing it to get your point across. Both options are misguided, misjudged, and plain wrong.
Posted by wre, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 5:32:05 PM
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Analysing the ‘terrorist threat’ situation in a balanced manner is the key here.
We should consider the international threat real to some extent, in that we western nations have been approaching this point since the first Gulf war- since the US decided to take advantage of instability in the Middle East. We should therefore have an appropriate level of intelligence regarding threats to this Nation.
Creating a sense of paranoia regarding this situation is definitely not the correct thing to do. Government & the media should be held accountable for the presentation of the problem accordingly.
Changes to legislation should be highly specific & target only what needs to be. This does not appear to be the case at this moment, assuming we have the complete facts regarding the deportation of Scott Parkin. A somewhat stupid move on the part of the Federal authorities, me thinks. Harassment of the Peace Movement is not a good idea. Target the right people or expect further public dissent.
The bottom line is that dialogue should be opened with those that threaten us. If we can’t do this, we should question why not? What stops us reaching an agreement with our foe? Ultimately, are we the problem? A Full deconstruction of the situation, & no less.
Then, & only then, should we make decisions regarding changes to legislation, preferably through referenda..
Posted by Swilkie, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 8:11:19 PM
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The problem with the Scott Parkin issue is, that even if the visa was canceled, he still did not commit any offence. At most, the Department of Immigration could have applied to a State Court in the State of Victoria to order his detention and deportation for failing to have a valid visa. It would then have been up to the court to make whatever order it deemed appropriate. The Australian Federal Police has no constitutional powers within a State legal jurisdiction and as such, as I view it, unlawfully imprisoned Scott Parkin and basically ‘kidnapped” him by moving him into detention.
This was the core problem with Vivian solon also, that the State ignored to apply DUE PROCESS OF LAW.
The court may very well have ordered time for Scott Parkin to contest the cancellation of his visa, and then the Federal government might have been exposed as to the real reason of the cancellation of his visa.

One must understand that if we allow this kind of abuse to be allowed, because we may perhaps not like a certain person, then likewise we can befall victim of the same tyranny!

Hansard 2-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
QUOTE
Mr. BARTON.-
It must be recollected that the ordinary rights of liberty and protection by the laws are not among the subjects confided to the Commonwealth. The administration of [start page 1766] the laws regarding property and personal liberty is still left with the states.
END QUOTE

Each time we allow the government to unduly intrude into our civil liberties, we loose our security more and more. In the end, we are turned into slaves, as whatever freedom you and I may have been willing to accept others may likewise held not to be allowed and so those freedoms are no more.

We must defend our civil liberties!
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Thursday, 15 September 2005 1:16:16 AM
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<The problem with the Scott Parkin issue is, that even if the visa was canceled, he still did not commit any offence.>

With all respect to the American expelled, are local teaching and participating in public protests parts of Australian tourist visa conditions?
Posted by MichaelK., Thursday, 15 September 2005 1:12:25 PM
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You can't be serious! What world are you living in Christopher?
We have prominant muslim leaders such as Keysar Trad from the Lebanese muslim association, Waleed Aly from Melbourne Islamic council, and all of the representatives that were invited by
John Howard to the terrorism summit, all criticizing the government for not inviting lunatics like Sheik Omran from Melbourne or Sheik Zoud from Sydney, people who have openly praised Bin Laden, suicide bombers, and deny that muslims were behind the London attacks.
Sheik Hilaly is supposed to be the "Mufti" of Australia, and even he praised the 911 attacks while in Lebanon last year, he is on record for accusing Jews of ruling the world through sex. Keysar Trad, who represents muslims every week on television around the country, is on record in 2002 at UWS(see Greenleft weekly website for links) for asking all muslims to ignore discrimination laws and favor the Quaran so that we can set up Sharia courts to stone gays and adulterers to death.
The islamic books stores that were selling racist, anti-western, pro-terrorist literature were defended by all these muslim leaders on the grounds of freedom of speech. Sheik feiz from the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool said that women who wear shorts or show any "skin" deserve to be raped (is that because this is all he and is Talibani-Wahabi mates think about all day - some philosophy they have!), he has not been condemed by any muslims at all, not even women's groups have condemed him. Even Keysar Trad actually said that the comments were "out of Place". What place is there for such vile rubbish!
Besides, the recent terrorism stuff is merely the icing on the multicultural cake that is western Sydney, Bankstown, Cabramatta. It is a criminal, drug, gang thuggery haven. And the hoards of young middle-eastern and vietnamese thugs have been racially attacking poor white people and indiginous Australians for 20 years already. A bomb going off on a train or a bus is totally expected by anyone who lives with this!
Posted by Matthew S, Thursday, 15 September 2005 2:31:34 PM
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Matthew, chill out. Tell you what, if there is a terrorist attack in Australia, I owe you a coke.

Handy hint: only around 1/5 of followers of the Islamic faith are Arabic. I know this wasn't explicitly mentioned but I get the feeling some people don't realise.

Peace
Posted by spendocrat, Thursday, 15 September 2005 2:43:42 PM
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It's very interesting to see that the Government's simplistic campaign of fear (or shall I call it the 'war on witches') is actually achieving its objective. MatthewS and others equate 'Muslim' with 'terrorist'. If you pause one second though, you might come to the conclusion that those that speak out the loudest (such as Sheik Omran), are the least dangerous. It's the ones that don't speak out publicly that are much more dangerous. By deliberately criminalising free speech you actually push so-called radicals underground, and they're off ASIO's screen - adverse effect on 'security'.

It's unlikely that we'll see a major terrorism attack inside Australia in the near future. And even in the unlikely event we do, it's imperative to see things in perspective. 50-200 (even 3000) deaths, as tragic as they are, don't bring down a country. The real threat from terrorism comes from countertterrorism and corresponding creeping authoritarianism.

Terrorism has been around for 3000 years, and will be around for another 3000. There are many issues around, that should worry us much more. Unfortunately they ain't selling too many newspapers.

ps. I add another coke to spendocrat's
Posted by chrismic, Thursday, 15 September 2005 6:24:52 PM
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Mathew S. I don't understand either why Sheik Feiz gets away with saying those things about women in shorts deserving to be raped while John Brogden loses his job over mail order bride comments. Sorry,this is off the topic.
Posted by minuet, Thursday, 15 September 2005 9:07:44 PM
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Part 1
When I came to Australia in 1971, and was introduced by a man about his “wife”, I understood he was degrading the woman as being a woman of low social standing. As that is the meaning of “wife” in Dutch.
You see, words can have different meanings.

When I listen carefully to what was stated by the Muslim and that he held bin laden was a great man, I did not detect any offensive remarks in this. It is not what he stated that was offensive but rather how another person perceives what he states is offensive.

If he had stated bin Laden was great for defeating the Russians, then likely it was acceptable.
If however it was stated that bin Laden was great because what he did to the Americans, then bias comes into place and then it is an offence.
Why?
The man is entitled to express his personal views, provided he does not do so to commit a criminal offense.

Look at the Vivian Solon case, where she was basically portrayed as some Asian prostitute, and deported and somehow the Minister then in charge, Ruddock is made Attorney General and the minister now in charge is neither held accountable for leaving her rot, despite it was known she was wrongfully deported.

Where is responsible government?

Today, I had a sudden visit (unannounced) of a man who had contemplated suicide in 1995, but I assisted not to proceed with it. The woman who accompanied him made known to me that she had heard a lot about me and that she had great respect for what I was doing. She has for the third time cancer back and is not expected to live long. To me, it was rather an honour that such a sick woman wanted to visit me before she is to die.

We have enough rot around in the world and can do well without propaganda to scare the living day lights out of ordinary citizen about terrorism.
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:28:51 PM
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Yes, “It's unlikely that we'll see a m a j o r terrorism attack inside Australia in the near future” - as far as terrorist camps will freely functioning in the bush and cash flows from Australia sustain terrorism round a globe.
Posted by MichaelK., Friday, 16 September 2005 12:34:24 PM
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Part 2
Look how the US could not even manage Katrina, and G. Bush admits not to be ready for any terrorist attack, this despite how the patriot Act itself is a form of terrorism there.

We have people sleeping under bridges, the poor unable to afford proper medical care, Aboriginals in outlaying area’s denied basic provisions, etc, etc, and surely our priority should be to spend our money on them then to fund the warmongering conduct of the Prime Minister and his cronies.

Since 1996 I have been campaigning that we need a special civil protection service that will come into operation in time of disaster as exist in The Netherlands. Then regardless of being a natural or human disaster people will have some way to protect themselves and their love ones in the immediate period and so giving a better opportunity to survive.

We must not accept this tyranny of oppressive legislation and make clear that we need positive legislation and conduct that will really make a difference.

The last thing we want to do is to terrorize people because they are or happen to look like Muslims where the real danger might be unexpected from a total different quarter.

We must not divide but unite. If the government is not willing to do so, then we simply must do it among ourselves.

Hatred to any particular group of people is not going to get us anywhere.

What we need to start with is some survival kit to be issued to every family, that will have basic needs in time of emergencies. That alone can safe a lot of lives!

We need to set up a civil protection service that will ensure that not only the rich and the able will get attention in time of need, but that any person regardless of status, race, colour, nationality, etc will have the same rights for survival and will be cared for.

We do not want the USA elaborate Home Security Department where when it comes to a disaster they leave people to die in nursing homes and hospital beds
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Friday, 16 September 2005 12:39:20 PM
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Hey Chrismic!

When or how did I equate "muslim" with "terrorist"? I merely pointed out that their leadership is on record has having defended racists, terrorists and even rape inciters(Sheik Feiz). You see the left needs to demarcate anti-war, ant-Bush from people who merely hate the war in Iraq or Afganistan because there are "white people" present on some "muslim" land. These people are just racist, bigotted ethnocentric xenophobes. Essentially, the muslim leadership in Australia today are no differnet to the KKK or the Nazi-party, I would say that they are actually much worse, these people not only cannot mix-in, they want us to turn into them, an invited guest! Arrogance!
Do you know of the Hizb-ut-tahir brothers and their little organistaion? They openly say that their objectives are to turn the world, including this country, in a sharia state under the Caliphate. Gays would be stoned to death, Christians and Jews would be given the pleasure of second-class and forced to pay a special "dimmi" tax, others would be killed. This group is defended by all of the muslim association leaders. Why? Indeed how? No-one from the leadership or even the general muslim community condems these vile things.
To say that by me pointing all of this out is racism is dumb, is it racist to say that a group of kkk blew up a black guy so let's get the racists? Should we say nothing of KKK or Nazis lest the wider white community will feel victimised? How would they unless they were in agreeance or simply didn't care?
This is disgusting racism. Anytime we go overseas to remove a dictator, if it is in the Middle-east, we are going to be criticized by these people not because they think it is wrong (they say nothing of the Sudan genocide or indeed the Hell of the Taliban all those years, or the millions of poor South-East Asian workers or "slaves" in the "rich" "arab gulf states")like the left "think" they are doing,
but because you are white and they are Arabic,mulsim, semitic or whatever, but not white!
Posted by Matthew S, Saturday, 17 September 2005 8:54:53 AM
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Chrisma, a few things more.....

To say that 50-200 people dead is nothing is representative of your arrogance.
Go to Bankstown, Fairfield, Cabramatta, Blacktown, Punchbowl, Lakemba , ask the poor white or even indiginous people living there what they think.
For nearly twenty years, atleast fifteen, there has been hundreds if not thousands of bashings and attempted murders on white people out there, also in Darling Harbour at night. Every year there are more than 30 gang rapes comparable to the Skaf brothers cases and they are all racially motivated and carried out by middle-eastern gangs.
I would have to check the exact figures with the police, such as Tim Priest, about how many single white males are killed by knife or multiple feet every year.
This is terrorism on a massive scale. Check the stats, these areas and these particular ethnic groups are Austarlia's crime capitals for all violent crimes and drug crimes.
Terrorism has been happenning out there to the poorer people for twenty years and there have so far been thousands and thousands of victims, including probably hundreds that have been murdered.
Remember those footballer's a few years ago at a city pub who got shot and murdered by Lebanese thugs? They admitted that they killed them simply because they were "anglos", "skippy-trash", and they didn't even know them.
This is terrorism! This new thing with bombs on trains is nothing compared to this!
Posted by Matthew S, Saturday, 17 September 2005 9:05:59 AM
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Dear Matt S,

Where do you base your claims about hundreds if not thousands of attacks on white people in those areas? Where do you get your gang rape statistics from and how can you proove they are racially motivated?

Arguments such as yours were well critiqued in Scott Poynting's text 'Bin Laden in the Suburbs' a good read with regards to this article we are responding too. Furthermore a majority of criminologists have not found a causal link between crime and ethnicity, rather finding that the environment has more to do with it than anything else.

The thing that astounds about people that post glittering generalities is the inability to back them up. By all means if you have proof, play your hand and show it. You will need more than Tim Priest and a few Daily Telegraph articles to proove your point.
Posted by scooper9, Saturday, 17 September 2005 4:48:07 PM
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Gee Wizz Chris, it is obvious that you have not been mugged by reallity yet. What definition is terrorism are you subscribing to, The one where Moslem's fly Aircraft into buildings, or The Moslems that assault,Murder, rape, Robb, Harrass you in your home in Australia just because we are infidel type and un belivers, and permission is granted by those of the Fifth column subscribers.
Perhaps there is something in what you say, BUT, if the Occupation of Foreign Ideology did not exist here in the first instance, then harder or strict laws would not be needed, after all, the wet lettice Justice system we have now, serves the Occupying Foreign Ideology well, and against our own Existance.

People should remember that Civil Rights and RIGHTS generally are a Post Modern fallacy, You and me and all of us only have the Privillage of what others have afforded to us in the past, and by their contribution we exist, not the Occupying Ethnic's who want to destroy you.
Posted by All-, Sunday, 18 September 2005 3:02:04 PM
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To scooper9,

Not only did I grow up in the heart of Faifield/Cabramatta/Liverpool etc,and experienced first hand
the ethnic gang violence at school and at the shopping malls, I
have looked into this matter quite deep actually.
True I can't get exact figures relating the TRUE ethnic-crime
connection, which are "treasonously" hidden by the likes of Don Weatherburn from the ABS with the help of extremists like Scott Pontyn, but all one has to do is read all of the crime reports
dating back to 1990, cross-refernece demographics + violent crime +
Local Gov.Area and you will find that the crime rates for the areas where the ethnic enclaves are(particularly Bankstown with the Lebanese muslims, and Fairfield/Cabramatta with the Vietnamese and other)is many,many times higher than other LGAs with comparitive
populations and unemployment rates. For instance, one would expect Newcastle, Gosford, Woy Woy or Campbeltown(Areas with high unemployment and majority non-Lebanese/Vietnamese demographics) to have high violent crime rates, drugs etc just like Bankstown or Fairfield right? Well it is not the case. Go down to Goulburn Gaol and look for yourself who is in there : 22% ABoriginal,30% European Aust, 50% Middle Eastern/Vietnamese, even though these two groups(Lebanese Muslim & Vietnamese) only make up about no more than 8% of Aust.population. While on the record most of the non-Anglos are "Aust. Born" so you don't take notice. Remember the Skaf gang rapists? They pack raped "Aussie SLuts" as a fully-fledged racist attack but they are officially categorised as "Aust. Born" and "Caucasian". If this is not purposefully misleading then what is?
Check for yourself. While you are there, ask Mr Weatherburn and Pontyn why they try to hide statistics if there is no link. Ask them why they have a descriptor of "Caucasian" which covers all Europeans + Middle Easterners, which effectively blankets any attempt one has at clearly trying to guage the ethnic/crime connection. As for the gang rapes: there are no official statistics,but is you search carefully you find a similar situation all over Western Europe with their Muslim diasporas.
Posted by Matthew S, Thursday, 22 September 2005 11:36:25 AM
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Matt,

If you had looked into the matter quite extensively then you may have an answer as to why most states find it problematic to keep ethnic crime figures. Try looking at the www.aic.gov.au website.

Secondly- regarding the gang rapes. It was alluded to in the media that the victims were in fact anglo-celtic females. In fact out of 7 victims only 3-4 were in fact Anglo-celtic. Another fact is that in northern NSW there are more reported sexual assaults then there are Bankstown etc, and there are fewer muslim Australians living in northern NSW than in Sydney
Posted by scooper9, Thursday, 22 September 2005 11:50:15 AM
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The following statement much underlines what I have been stating for so long;

The Age Friday 23-9-2005 letters; Are we on a slow march to fascism?

WHEN the Second World War was closer in people’s memories the question was often asked: Why did the ordinary German people apparently do nothing to stop Hitler’s extreme fascist policies of concentration camps, the “final solution” and the like.
What we used to forget in asking this question was that a fascist state in an ostensibly democratic system does not arise overnight. Hitler’s expansionism began in 1939, but he had had six years before that to offer the German people solutions on economical and efficiency grounds, and to prepare them with propaganda for the extremes of later years.
It appears that a similar situations occurring in Australia. Each time a clear breach of freedom is perpetrated by the government, we see it as an isolated incident and, encouraged by the prevailing mantra, “move on” to something else.
But we now have a government in Australia that has concentration camps in which it imprisons men, women and children without charge or trial: it deports activists because it doesn’t like their message: it declares parts of Australia to be no longer parts of Australia for certain classes of people: and it contemplates such egregious infringements of civil liberty as preventive detention.
Australia is not yet a fascist state. But the idea is not so fanciful, particularly when the government has the benefit of two ill-defined enemies – illegal immigrants and terrorist – and has the perpetual war on terror to justify any action it wants to take and can persuade people to accept in their name.
If Australia becomes a fascist state, it will do so gradually and by accretion of small deprivations of liberty. We can accept each one as a minor irritant, or we can see the big picture and object forcefully to each one as a building block in our eventual prison.
Once the walls get too high, it will be too late.
Steve Hallwell, Fitzroy North
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Friday, 23 September 2005 9:27:41 AM
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I would suggest we are living in a Fascist state, and have done so for 30 odd years +.
We have been controlled and manipulated by leftist movements that aspouse to Marxist and other philosophical corrupt doctrines for some time.
The Marxist hatred for the middle class has given birth in Western civilizations to the "New Third World Reich" to a point it can be interprited as Race Replacement, Government sponcership. Tax Payer funded self anhillation.Islamic Imigration and third word Imigration will leave a less pallitable future for our children and Western Civilization's future. With all the Brainwashing taking place by our Media, and our supposid Education system, as well as the leftoid worship of Universal Utopia and and a Labotomized total Dennial of Reality. The only other leftist Ideology that will destroy prolatateriat is Fascism,along with the power elites.Part Government and part Elites, THey have made massive inroads already, may well be too late. The Fifth column is at work as we speak.
And If you may think this is allarmist, you better aquaint your selves with History books, not Fascist re Written versions , The real Lost Civilization's, and Why, That will all sound familiar today. But their A'int anyone left to save you. Western Civilizations are nearly Null and Void.Thanks, Thanks Very Much.
Posted by All-, Monday, 26 September 2005 1:15:21 AM
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Can I just ask, why are there so many people that associate being left-wing with Marxism? I have been pretty far to the left as long as I can remember, and I have never, NEVER, read a word of Marxist literature.

This seems to be a common debate style of conservative people, they make up things about you and then criticise you almost solely on the thing they made up.

Whoever: ‘You’re a Marxist! See, the problem with Marxism is blah blah blah’
Me: ‘Hey hey hey whoa! I’m not a Marxist!’
Whoever: ‘Yeah, that’s what all Marxists say. Marxists also say blah blah blah’

I’m a proud member of the United Peoples Democratic Socialist Communist Anarchist Athiest Alliance Party (or the UPDSCAAAP), and nothing else!
Posted by spendocrat, Monday, 26 September 2005 4:55:43 PM
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You probably have a point there, but , along with Philosophy of kinds, and the need for someone else to organise your life, gives way to Leftism, Some indoctrinated, some are Psychopathy,others are out right Nurological disorders, assosiated with Leftism, Conservatives or supposid Right wingers are a figment of a Regressive Mindeset, ie Progressives, there is a point to which there is no return, and language is Orwellian.
There is no need for Egosentrism or over ego maniacs to order life in what form they command and how it should be, Elites.
The attempts to create a fantacy god, Universal god, or think you are God, are a purile abstract, The Philosophy of Spinoza.
I would state that.There is a real life, and real people, get a job, be independent of any state or Authoritarian leftist, and get on with it.Hmmmmm
Posted by All-, Monday, 26 September 2005 5:48:34 PM
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May I ask 'All-' to provide the source of his/her ideas? What is the base of your politics?
Posted by Swilkie, Monday, 26 September 2005 6:34:10 PM
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To "ALL"

Without egocentrism Australia is not Australia as well as many other "developed civilised" systems neither.

And to a great extent egocentrism itself is a source of active (doing it)or passive (being done)terrorism either.
Posted by MichaelK., Tuesday, 27 September 2005 11:47:07 AM
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Swilkie,

If you type James Gribble into google, his work will come up for you.
I mentioned Fascism, contry to what others want you to believe, is just an extention of Communism, with the realism of Government control, and Private enterprise, ether way Government for it's part have control.
Take An issue with Share Holdings, and % of control of the Board, well, the silent share holder at thirty % is the Government, like wise when you toddle off to work and hand a large chunk of your fruits to "The Government".So that makes the Government a Bias partner, would you not say, Do'nt be conned in thinking they are allocating your hard earnt money to provide you with services. Slavery was not abolished, just re-invented, and we have become new slaves to a new postmodern form of Communism, Fascism.Perhaps Global Imperialism, UN.
Check out The "Omnious Paralelles" Leonard Peikoff. Its a start.and have a read of "David Stove", this will help put things back in perspective.
Posted by All-, Tuesday, 27 September 2005 2:46:23 PM
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Michael k
Yes Michael you are right,drop the ism an insurt ic , that should be just the "Egosentric", as in Lenen, Stalin, Hitler,etc, and lets not forget historys most important , as far as impact on the world, and that was the egosentric's of Muhammad and his legacy.
It would be poinient to note that the Islamic resurgence has been in this instance due to One egosentric Ahutullah Khamani and the Islamic revolution in Iran, he to suggested that he was a messanger of Allah,and adopted the same measures and life style as his Boss had once endulged. A Restraint Jacket was needed, not an Audience in both cases. How can you make laws that exasibate the Ideolological and not have the reverse effect, you would need to consult the Quran, and not the Legislative assembly, It has all the Ideological answers Islamist's or just what Moslems need, not that they care what Law the Infidels make.
Posted by All-, Wednesday, 28 September 2005 2:09:38 AM
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Scooper9,

Your stats are correct, but you miss Matt’s point. In light of his above posts you should gauge that he is concerned with racism directed at Anglos.

If a non-Anglo had noted the equivalent of this, would you only focus on the issue of responsibility of free speech, or would you be referring them onto the relevant complaint bodies, perhaps even making generalisations to the racism inherent in Anglos?

Since verbal and symbolic racism is universal, the only truly reliable sign of it would be institutions. Where do such institutions manifest in this country other than in its diasporas? (arranged marriages, ethnic-nepotism employment, etc.).

Or would we find it in relation to detention centres? Yes, but not in the ‘culture OF detention,’ but the ‘culture IN detention.’ Check out the recent HREOC report (2004) into Australian detention centers. Perhaps the ethnic intollerance between detainees is expected from those coming from education systems not privy to such discourse? And what about the comments made to an ABC journalist by 14 year old Ilham Rharmati upon her release from detention on Nauru: “the worst thing about it [detention] is that as a single female I cannot go outside of my room”? (or is that sexism? depends, just ask the Skaf brothers).

There's easily been three generations of education programs, pop music, etc., in this nation dedicated to racial tolerance (excluding racist and bigotted hip-hop, which many middel-eastern youth identify with).

Please, spare a thought for the "poor white trash" who live in the front-line of such racist cultures.
Posted by Skippy, Friday, 30 September 2005 6:20:25 PM
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Well Christopher, do you still believe what you are saying given the second lot of suicide bombings in Bali?

My heart goes out to victims, families and friends.

Kay
Posted by kalweb, Sunday, 2 October 2005 6:23:00 PM
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Skippy I see your point about Matt's comment. However if he actually did his homework he might have discovered reasons why ethnic data is not collected in Australia contained in an AIC report.

Scott Poynting also examines the gang rape moral panic in his book, and rather than condone the horrible crimes committed, he seeks to understand the media coverage that occurred during that time.

For example did you know that out of 7 gang rape victims, there included three which had greek and italian backgrounds. Matt tends to get carried away with his conspiracy theories, which unforunately make him less convincing and more desperate than anything else.

People like Matt tend to resort to pre-determined conclusions one thinks, when if they actually had a look they would discover a whole new reality. Certainly one does not dimiss 'ethnic crime', although we must agree that the term 'ethnic' in itself is fraught with definitional dilemas. It is not white Australia who determines who is Australian or not, after all what values was this country built on in the first place?
Posted by scooper9, Sunday, 2 October 2005 6:36:36 PM
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Well Kay/kalweb,

let me cite my own conclusion:

So there is no reason to panic. When analysing the terrorism threat to Australia, one must clearly differentiate between Australian interests overseas and Australia’s homeland. While attacks on Western targets in Indonesia and other countries in the region are likely to happen in the foreseeable future, chances of a devastating attack on Australian soil remain fairly low.
Posted by chrismic, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 9:07:26 PM
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I have read this with some interest and some well founded debate reasons for and against. I agree that Australia or anyone should not expect an attack, your Gov does that............but be ready for it when it does.
Posted by Draco, Sunday, 9 October 2005 9:11:01 PM
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chrismic and Drako

Did you or your families lose people in the recent Bali Bombings? We did!

Kay
Posted by kalweb, Sunday, 9 October 2005 10:49:39 PM
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