Throughout history some acts of terror have actually been "false flsgs" ie When "powers that be" secretly arrange for an atrocity to be committed for the purpose of falsely blaming someone and /or pursuing an agenda. Recently though thanks to widely accessable alternate media and social networking through the Internet, many of these, including ones which occurred long ago can now be widely exposed. is now obvious that some acts of terror have been initiated by those with vested interests in the anti terror industry. Including from within government organisations.

eg It is now obvious that 9/11 was not done on the initiative of a few mad Arabs as the mainstream media has long tried to portray. Large numbers of details discredit various aspects of the official story despite the efforts of "shills" ie paid misinformation agents to debunk them. Seems the primary objective of this act of terror was to justify a "war on terror" which some people in powerful positions stood to gain from.

Another type of planned terror now being exposed has been many of the shootings supposedly done on sole initiative of a deranged "lone nut gunman" In these cases dimwits who can be readily character assassinated and are unlikely to have friends to effectively defend them have been selected and set up as "patsies" to take the blame. The JFK assassination is now becoming widely exposed as one of these. Some others have been obviously arranged by anti gun activists for the purpose of getting tough gun laws pushed through. The Port Arthur massacre was a classic example. Is obvious to many who have studied details that Martin Bryant was not the real gunman and the process of his imprisonment was a gross miscarriage of justice supported by people in high places.

I think we can safely ignore the conspiracy theories of the previous poster.
Getting back to the article.
"for a number of years authorities have applied an objective risk management approach to identifying and evaluating the relative risks to the nation's interest from a broad range of hazards."
I would suggest that this methodology has gone out the window in the years since 9/11. This has cost us millions of dollars and placed undue restrictions on many of our activities because the various governments want to be seen to be doing something. It really is time we got back to the basics of cost benefit analysis.
David

The writer seems to be more than a little confused. I was glad to also hear from "mox" that Bryant wasn't/isn't the 'real' gunman and mass killer he was convicted of being; and thanks for the heads up on the nasty, conspiritorial gun lobby, mox. Brilliant thinking!

Right, Mox. There is evidence that the Port Arthur massacre was another false flag - see MOSSAD. It is a Communist agenda for World Conquest through lies, murder, genocide, deceit and propaganda.

Dialectics
Communist Instrument for World Conquest

http://www.alor.org/Library/Butler%20ED%20-%20Dialectics.htm

http://www.deesillustration.com/

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/01/30/police-state-upon-us-paul-craig-roberts/

Anyone paying attention knows that 9/11 has been used to create a police/warfare state. Years ago NSA official William Binney warned Americans about the universal spying by the National Security Agency, to little effect. Recently Edward Snowden proved the all-inclusive NSA spying by releasing spy documents, enough of which have been made available by Glenn Greenwald to establish the fact of NSA illegal and unconstitutional spying, spying that has no legal, constitutional, or “national security” reasons.Yet Americans are not up in arms.

Americans have accepted the government’s offenses against them as necessary protection against “terrorists.”
Neither Congress, the White House, or the Judiciary has done anything about the wrongful spying, because the spying serves the government. Law and the Constitution are expendable when the few who control the government have their “more important agendas.”

Bradley Manning warned us of the militarization of US foreign policy and the murderous consequences, and Julian Assange of WikiLeaks posted leaked documents proving it.

Were these whistleblowers and honest journalists, who alerted us to the determined attack on our civil liberty, rewarded with invitations to the White House and given medals of honor in recognition of their service to American liberty?

No. Bradley Manning is in federal prison, and so would be Julian Assange and Edward Snowden if Washington could get its hands on them.
Binney escaped the Police State’s clutches, because he did not take any documents with which to prove his allegations, and thus could be dismissed as “disgruntled” and as a “conspiracy kook,” but not arrested as a “spy” who stole “national secrets.”

Cont...

...Cont

Binney escaped the Police State’s clutches, because he did not take any documents with which to prove his allegations, and thus could be dismissed as “disgruntled” and as a “conspiracy kook,” but not arrested as a “spy” who stole “national secrets.”

Greenwald, so far, is too prominent to be hung for reporting the truth. But he is in the crosshairs, and the Police State is using other cases to close in on him.

These are only five of the many people who have provided absolute total proof that the Bill of Rights has been overthrown. Washington continues to present itself to the world as the “home of the free,” the owner of the White Hat, while Washington demonstrates its lack of mercy by invading or bombing seven countries on false pretenses during the past 14 years, displacing, killing, and maiming millions of Muslims who never raised a fist against the US.

Many commentators have written articles and given interviews about government’s ever expanding police powers. The totality of the American Police State is demonstrated by its monument in Utah, where an enormous complex has been constructed in which to store every communication of every American. Somehow a son or daughter checking on an aged parent, a working mother checking on her children’s child care, a family ordering a pizza, and sweethearts planning a date are important matters of national security.

Some educated and intelligent people understand the consequences, but most Americans perceive no threat as they “have nothing to hide.”
The Founding Fathers who wrote the Bill of Rights and attached it to the US Constitution did not have anything to hide, but they clearly understood, unlike modern day Americans, that freedom depended completely on strictly limiting the ability of government to intrude upon the person.

Those limits provided by the Founding Fathers are gone. The hoax “war on terror” demolished them.

Today not even the relationships between husband and wife and parents and children have any protection from arbitrary intrusions by the state.

Essentially, government has destroyed the family along with civil liberty.

Cont...

..Cont

Those insouciant Americans who do not fear the police state because they “have nothing to hide” desperately need to read: Home-schooled Children Seized By Authorities Still In State Custody: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/01/gary-north/homeschool-children-kidnapped/

In Police State America, authorities can enter your home on the basis of an anonymous “tip” that you are, or might be, somehow, abusing your children, or exposing them to medicines that are not in containers with child-proof caps or to household bleach that is not under lock and key, and seize your children into state custody on the grounds that you present a danger to your children.

The government does not have to tell you who your accuser is. It can be your worst enemy or a disgruntled employee, but the tipster is protected. However, you and your family are not.

The authorities who receive these tips treat them as if they are valid. A multi-member goon squad shows up at your house. This is when the utterly stupid “I have nothing to hide” Americans discover that they have no rights, regardless of whether they have anything to hide.

We owe this police power over parents and children to “child advocates” who lobbied for laws based on their fantasies that all parents are serial rapists of children, and if not, are medieval torturers, trained by the CIA, who physically and psychologically abuse their children.

In the opinion of “child advocates,” children are brought into the world in order to be abused by parents. Dogs and cats and the fish in the fishbowl are not enough. Parents need children to abuse, too, just as the Police and the Police State need people to abuse.

Cont...

Of course, sometimes real child abuse occurs. But it is not the routine event that the Child Protective Services Police assume. A sincere investigation, such as was missing in the report on the home-schooled children, would have had one polite person appear at the door to explain to the parents that there had been a complaint that their children were being exposed to a poisonous substance in the home. The person should have listened to the parents, had a look at the children, and if there was any doubt about the water purifier, ask that its use be discontinued until its safety could be verified.
But nothing sensible happened, because the Police State does not have to be sensible.

Instead, half dozen goon thugs show up. The parents are put outside in the snow for 5 hours while the children are scared to death with questions and then carried away from their home, mother, and father.
In Police State America, this is called Protecting Children. We owe this tyranny to the idiot “child advocates.”

It is no longer important to protect children from homosexuals, unless the homosexuals are Catholic child pedophiles. But it is absolutely necessary to protect children from their parents.
So, yes, dear insouciant American fool, whether you have anything to hide or not, you are in grave danger, and so are your children, in Police State America.

You can no longer rely on the Constitution to protect you.

This is the only way that you can protect yourself: grovel before your neighbors, your co-workers, your employees and employers, and, most definitely, before “public authority” and your children, as your children can report you. Don’t complain about anything. Do not get involved in protests. Don’t make critical comments on the Internet or on your telephone calls. Don’t homeschool. Don’t resist vaccines. Turn your backs to leaders who could liberate you as it is too dangerous to risk the failure of liberation. Be an abject, cowardly, obedient, servile member of the enserfed, enslaved American population. Above all, be thankful to Big Brother who protects you from terrorists & Russians.

Can anyone remember if there was a huge anti-gun debate raging before Martin Bryant conveniently tipped the scales? Oh, no excuse me, it wasn't a plot to change the gun laws, "it is a Communist agenda for World Conquest through lies, murder, genocide, deceit and propaganda."

Two equally loony conspiracy theories

This author brings nothing new or original to the terrorism discussion.

Terrorists as suicide bombers are a fundamentally greater threat than other threats.

- they can quickly spread using copycat acts (utilising social media and word of mouth)

- terrorists intentionally create bloody video scenes for the media. While criminals avoid the media

- the mainstream media, especially SBS and ABC, assist the spreading of Islamic State's message through constant showing of black-clad IS propaganda video clips and even interviews with IS terrorist-insurgents

- Terrorism (unlike criminal threats) is a political confrontation against a society which draws a large-scale political response

- Other commensurate or greater threats (slipping in the shower etc) aren't filmed and are boring

- ignorants like the author aren't aware of the severity of terrorist plots that are foiled: hence never made public

Dear Bill, this is a rather ragtag piece of Penmanship if I’ve ever read one. I have no idear where it’s going to or coming from. Obviously you were a disgruntled employee of the Australian Security Intelligence Organization and the National Crime Authority from the early 1970s till the mid 1990s.
For one thing, in those days Australia didn’t have the threat of Islamic Terrorism on its shores at that time. The build up of Moslems in Australia was only just beginning. The Ayatollah Khomeini in his speech in Derby, Western Australia to the moslem residents. His advice was to get as many of their relatives into Australia as they could because Australia was a Religious desert & ripe for Conversion

Bill: Like all phobias, terrorism relies for its enduring effect on sustaining and reinforcing irrational fear.

Of course it does, that’s why it is so effective.

Bill: The reach and impact of the distorted "death cult" propaganda is reflected in the (absurd) characterisation of terrorism as an existential threat to civilised society. It is unimaginable to think that Winston Churchill would have gone into the British Parliament during WW2 to give credence and voice to Nazi.

What was it the Winston said about Islam in his Book, “The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899.”
The influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome." -Sir Winston Churchill.
Cont.

Cont.
Bill: By reacting in militaristic ways to misperceptions of the terrorism threat.

I doubt that anyone, apart from moslems, thinks that Islam is not a threat.

Bill: Terrorism threats will not translate into fatalities if covert counter-terrorism measures are effective in preventing attacks, one of the rationales for apparently limitless expenditure on such measures.

I wonder if you live under a rock Bill. “Not translate into fatalities” See, “Monis” & for the pure luck a number of other close calls.

Bill: In the end it is virtually impossible for the community to objectively and independently evaluate the propriety, proportionality, cost and effectiveness of many of the counter-terrorism measures.

Ahh... so it all comes down to money. So what you are saying here is that we should all just give in now & save the expence.

Bill: trust the assurances of its elected representatives, some of whom may have an interest in perpetuating an environment of fear for partisan political advantage, or the advice of public officials who may have an interest in sustaining the substantial and growing public funding for a burgeoning national security industry.

This time it’s the Australian People that are demanding that the Government & its agencies do something about the problem they have created by allowing moslems into Australia in the first place.

Pseudo-immigration pushed by the Politically Correct, Greenie Latte Set of Bleeding Hearts. Look where it has got Australia.

One has only to look at the European example to know what is in store for Australia in the future.

I would like to hear just what your solution is, Bill. What would you like to see happen to solve the problem of Future Terrorist Attacks in Australia?

I guess we will never know. Bill

Bill, give entirely illegal cabinet leaks, there's even a greater role for secrecy in all anti terror security! And that role is to not allow the enemy to easily see what we do, and then use such measures as they are then able to avoid or circumvent it!

One an be sure those innocent folks going about their lawful business in the twin towers thought they were perfectly safe; and like all other civilian population, unable to imagine that they could be made the target of choice of blood lusting and inherently evil madmen!

And given every law abiding citizen is still able to come and go as they please? What's your real beef?

That these security measures may prevent some drop kick from murdering the innocent!?

It's a very different world from one that Churchill faced! Even so, he more than anyone, realized there is no way to appease a madman!

Or that the only available option was to destroy him and the terrible war machine that served him!

But thankfully, only as long as he was winning!

And something we can never ever countenance for ISIL! Or the mad mullah at its helm!

Thankfully, we'll likely never have to actually revoke the citizenship of anyone mad enough to travel over there to fight for ISIL, given the only real prospect that action will leave them, is if they return at all, it will be feet first and in a box!
Rhrosty.

You can't strike terror unless people know about your crimes, hence the biggest terrorists are the media that report them.

Is it possible that the greedy media and the government's greedy security industry are colluding between them, perhaps even with the criminals themselves?

I have never read so much conspiratorial BS in my life.
David

Hey Bill. You wanted a multicultural society and you have got it. Us "racists" tried to warn you that if you brought people into this country who's values and behaviours were diametrically opposed to our own, you would get trouble. And we tried to warn you that Islam was a dangerous and violent religion. But you did not want to know.

Now that the chickens have come home to roost you are complaining that our governments must repair the damage that people like you caused.

Here is a few more little "benefits" of muliticulturalism, Bill.

Armed guards outside of newspaper offices and Jewish schools.

Six Sydney schools in the "troubled" (read "Muslim") Southwest of Sydney now have permanent security guards to protect teachers and students from violent students and violent parents. Granville Boys High requesting it's students to stop bringing knives to school.

Australian soldiers, SES volunterrs and Rural fire Service volunteers advised to not wear their uniforms on duty to minimise the risk of being beheaded.

Muslim men arrested and charged with conspiring to murder a police officer and use his gun to commit a massacre on ANZAC Day.

African gangs in Dandenong out of control with the police advising residents to flee them on sight.

The self declared head of the non existent "Aboriginal State" trying to board an overseas airliner on an "aboriginal" passport. And aborigines in North Queensland declaring their Yilindji tribal lands to be a "sovereign state." And aborigines in NSW doing the same thing claiming thing declaring a "Murrawarri Republic." We have 'aboriginal courts" handing out "aboriginal punishments" (including spearings)

We have aboriginal leaders demanding "aboriginal only" seats in Federal parliament and Sheik al Hilaly doing the same thing in NSW in the State parliament.

Demands by aborigines that the Federal government continue to fund remote and totally dysfunctional aboriginal communities to the tune of 480,000 dollars p.a. which would be shut down if they were white communities.

Hi Yuyutsu

Re your comment:

"greedy media and the government's greedy security industry are colluding between them, perhaps even with the criminals themselves?"

Definitly the Media - a bunch of "if it bleeds it leads ambulance chasers"

Lawyers need crims.

Doctors the sick.

Politicians the gullible.

Plastic surgeons help the needy to - most commonly "flat" chested http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/feb/03/uk-plastic-surgery-2013-most-popular

...Cont

“You, dear insouciant, stupid, American (to all Westerners) are back on the Plantation. Perhaps that is your natural home. In his masterful A People’s History of the United States, Howard Zinn documents that despite their best efforts the exploited and abused American people have never been able to prevail against the powerful private interests that control the government. Whenever in American history the people rise up they are struck down by brute force.
Zinn makes totally clear that “American freedom, democracy, liberty, blah-blah” are nothing but a disguise for the rule over America by money.

Wave the flag, sing patriot songs, see enemies where the government tells you to see them, and above all, never think. Just listen. The government and its presstitute media will tell you what you must believe. “

More evidence of Police State America: http://www.globalresearch.ca/notes-on-police-violence-in-america-police-shoot-and-kill-two-teenage-girls-within-two-weeks/5428432

Why are there UN troops in the USA. FEMA camps. All truth is only on the net. There is no real news in our controlled media Murdoch Zionist press. You have to ask why is he so bent on controlling media worldwide. Or are you just plane naïve. Obama's mentors were Commies.

Hippy - you think that JFK speech was rubbish?

Federation of American Scientists
https://fas.org/
https://fas.org/sgp/secrecy.html
https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2015/04/oversight-113/

Interview with Paul Craig Roberts (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/)
By Costantino Ceoldo

“I recently had the chance to interview Paul Craig Roberts. I remember briefly, for the uninitiated, that Dr Roberts was a senior official of the US govt, economic advisor to the President during the first term of Ronald Reagan. It is to him that credit goes for creating Reaganomics, the economic policy initiated by Reagan to revive the US economy, then stagnant. Dr Roberts was also a member of a secret committee of control over the CIA, set up to verify the information provided by US intelligence on the continuation of the Cold War with the Soviet Union (current good guys). He has still now a profound understanding of the mechanisms of power in Washington and he’s distinguished for his political analysis, often discordant compared with that of the official mainstream.

Cont...

CC: In one of your recent articles you said that there is an “establishment” within both the Republican Party and also the Democrats voted to preserve the power and hostility toward any independent and authoritative presidential figure. How is it that we have come now to a situation like this and it seems to have originated many decades ago?

Dr Roberts: Its ability to tax, borrow and print money gives the govt command over private resources. The beneficiaries of these resources can be, in certain circumstances, the people. More often, the beneficiaries are the profits of private interests who are allied with the govt. As time passes these interests harden and become an Establishment. In the US the Establishment consist of the private interest groups – such as the financial sector, the military/security complex, the Israel Lobby, the extractive industries and agribusiness – that write the laws that govt enacts. The political party in-groups serve these interests in exchange for the large political campaign donations that elect the govt. The two political parties in the US compete to be the whore of the private interest groups, because the majority party can do more favours and thus receive more benefits. (See Brit historian, Gibbons who wrote the “Decline of the Roman Empire” – and the corruptness of man). When political outsiders, such as Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, who can be tolerated as long as they are limited to governships in States, seize the presidential nomination for the Establishment candidates and get elected, they jeopardize the establishment’s control. For example, when the Democratic Establishment realised that Franklin D Roosevelt would not survive his 4th term, they forced out his popular vice president, Henry Wallace, and installed the non-entity and easily controlled Harry Truman. They were able to use Truman to create the very profitable Cold War, which kept the military/security complex in the money for years.

Cont...

Zombie ZOG (Zionist Occupational Govt)

CC: Do you think it is correct to speak of the existence, at the political level, of a sort of “Power Point generation”? That is, a set of people in charge whose mental schemes are extremely simplified, linear and in cascade, devoid of a marked ability to lateral thinking, over that of honesty.

Dr Roberts: I can’t answer for every country. In the US the present power consists of the Neoconservatives. Their name is misleading. They are not conservatives. (think the opposite to everything that is espoused today). Their fathers came out of the Trotsky left. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Neocons concluded that History had chosen the capitalists, not the workers, and that America was the “exceptional and indispensable” country whose right was to exercise hegemony over the world. This is akin to Trosky’s theory of world revolution, but in behalf of American capital, not the workers. The pursuit of this policy has defined US foreign policy since the Clinton regime. The lives of millions of people have paid for the supremacy of American control.

CC: Can we therefore say that the current US foreign policy is the product of this generation “in limited thinking”? If so, in your opinion how much are the military leaders influenced?

Dr Roberts: I do not think that the US is any longer capable of producing leaders. Govt is simply something to be used by agendas. Military leaders benefit from mobilizations and war, as promotions are more rapid and officers retire at higher pensions. Once one reaches the rank of major or lieutenant general, private and Pentagon consulting opportunities abound as do military / security corporate directorships in the “defence” industry. The financial rewards make the generals complicit in the propaganda of everpresent “threats”, whether “terrorist”, Muslim, Russian or Chinese.

Cont...

CC: Some people, here in Italy for example, believe that the current US policy is a consequence of the crisis of what they themselves call “American Empire”. Here the term “empire” is used in an exception other than that which it is generally attached to, but it still indicates a form of authoritarian and freedom-killer govt. What is your opinion about this?

Dr Roberts: Europeans are responsible for the American Empire. Europeans bought into the Cold War, with the vision of the Red Army overrunning Europe and raping all the women as they did in Germany, and assigned their defense and foreign policy to Washington. Europeans have not had an independent foreign policy since WWII. European countries are vassal States of the American Empire and take their orders from Washington. No European “leader is independent of Washington’s CONTROL.

A look at history

CC: I connect to the previous question and would propose an analogy” the current social situation in the United States and, partially, in the Western world can be compared to that experienced by the old Roman Republic in its last times, with the murder of Caesar as a detonator of civil wars and catalyst of the break-up of the Roman Empire? How far we could go with this comparison?

Dr Roberts: The American Republic was destroyed in the so-called Civil War. This war was about empire, not slavery. Lincoln himself declared that he would support slavery if it preserved the empire. As soon as the Union war criminals destroyed the South, they destroyed the Plains Indians, thus opening the West to exploitation by private interest groups.

CC: The recent mid-term elections have turned President Obama into the proverbial “lame duck”. How do you think the last two years of the Obama presidency will run?

Dr Roberts: Lame-duck thinking is past. Obama represents the Establishment just as will his replacement. The Republican attacks on Obama are nothing by the Republicans’ hopes that they will be the next whore for the private interest groups that rule America and that Republicans instead of Democrats will receive the rewards.

Cont..

Hey Constance

Can ya translate your 17th paragraph into Swedish?

Tar-ee Mate!

False flag attacks happen when governments allow an attack to occur or use covert operations to fool the public into believing an enemy has attacked. False flag attacks have changed the course of history.

World War 1 sinking of the Lusitania
The tragedy was exploited as a pretext for the USA to join WW1. The Germans warned that they would sink the ship, but US newspapers refused to print the warning, or acknowledge the German claim it was transporting munitions. The wreckage of the ship was found in 2008, which held more than 4 million rounds of rifle ammunition.

World War 2 the Gleiwitz Incident
Nazi commandos raided a German radio station in Gleiwitz, Germany. SS operatives dressed in Polish uniforms attacked the radio station The raid set the stage for the invasion of Poland and the start of WW2.

Operation Northwoods
As part of the CIA's covert war against Cuba, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff UNANIMOUSLY proposed state sponsored terrorism inside the USA. The plan included: shooting down hijacked American airplanes, the sinking of US ships, and the shooting of Americans on the streets of Washington DC. Fortunately, President Kennedy rejected the plan.

The Vietnam War and The Gulf of Tonkin Incident
August 1964, President Johnson went on national television and announced that North Vietnam had attacked the USS Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin. However this was a ruse - it never happened. The incident served as Johnson's pretext for commencing military operations against the North Vietnamese.

Operation Gladio
After WW2, the CIA and M16 collaborated to create a force to defeat any future Communist invasions, however over time it devolved into a covert terror network that involved Gladio operatives conducting acts of terrorism that were blamed on Leftists and Communists. This operation claimed the lives of hundreds of people across Europe.

According to Vincenzo Vinciguerra,a Gladio terrorist serving a life-sentence for murdering policemen, the reason for Gladio was simple. It was designed “to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

Hard to believe, huh? Google them.

There are many strange things about the Port Arthur Massacre.

Here is just one strange aspect of the case.

Martin Bryant has an IQ of 66 - in non PC language, he is a moron. Yet in the Broad Arrow Cafe, according to the official version of events, he fired from the hip and killed 20 people - 19 of those were shots to the head, and 12 wounded. All in 90-120 seconds. Astounding.

Unfortunately, that coward Bryant's very low IQ could have allowed him to carry out his disgusting mission that even a highly trained, disciplined soldier could not have performed because s/he could not have overcome his/her overwhelming horror and revulsion.

Even if it was cardboard images, a trained officer/soldier would falter. While being fully aware of the artificiality of the exercise, s/he could confidently be predicted to perform very poorly indeed.

The elephant in the room is the political idealism on both sides of politics and for different reasons, that saw the closure of previously highly successful institutions and sheltered workshops where marginally and moderately intellectually disabled found order, predictability and refuge. Where they might be monitored too. The feds threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Also, there is the political correctness of the hanky wringing 'experts', self-styled 'do gooders' who are actually 'do badders' if they were even to be held responsible for the negative consequences of their lobbying and activism that can result in people like Bryant roaming freely and even possessing a car licence that was crucial to his crime and couldn't have been carried out without it.

What about the media that ensures that horrific crimes are reported in such a way as to give the Bryants the personal publicity they crave? It is easily possible to report without sensationalising and it is unnecessary to contion ue to give Bryant continued columns and TV for him to relish.

None of that excuses Bryant, the cold-blooded killer.

OTB:"even a highly trained, disciplined soldier could not have performed because s/he could not have overcome his/her overwhelming horror and revulsion."

Yeah, no soldier has ever gone on a killing spree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

I could put up dozens of additional examples if you like...

Don't take my word for it that Martin Bryant's kill to wounding ratio was astounding, here is the opinion of Brigadier Ted Sarong:

"Brigadier Ted Serong, former head of Australian forces in Vietnam, was just as impressed.
"There was an almost satanic accuracy to that shooting performance. Whoever did it is better than I am, and there are not too many people around here better than I am."

One reason why most members of the general public have accepted the official story that Bryant was the gunman is that they possess a greatly exaggerated idea of what amateur gunmen are able to do. Not only do amateurs tend to injure many more persons than they kill, they are usually overpowered before they have completed their sinister work. By contrast, the Port Arthur gunman was a thorough professional who was at all times in perfect control.

Vialls wrote:
"The shooter in the Broad Arrow Café at Port Arthur demonstrated all of the qualities of a trained counterterrorist marksman but made no amateur mistakes. Always in motion and point-shooting from the right hip with devastating accuracy, he killed twenty of the occupants with single shots to the head and wounded twelve more, firing a total of only 29 rounds. Using known techniques reported by witnesses, he ensured his own safety from attack by turning on the spot and staying outside grappling range. It was an awesome display of expertise, even by special forces standards."

However, we don't have to take the word of people like Vialls and Serong who never saw the Port Arthur gunman shoot with their own eyes. According to eyewitness (and victim) Neville Quin: "He [the gunman] appeared to be the best-trained army guy I've ever seen; his stance was unbelievable."

Also important to consider is that, according to most witnesses, the Broad Arrow Café shooter shot from his right hip. Not only is Bryant left-handed, he told police he had never fired a gun from his hip. We should believe him. It is doubtful that anyone except a highly trained professional shooter could."

http://whale.to/b/wernerhoff.html

Craig Minns,

Apart from his marginal IQ Bryant was not known to be suffering from any mental condition. It would take a cold detachment from the events to allow him to do what he did.

I don't think that the example you gave disproves the contention that Bryant's low intelligence allowed him to kill up close repetitively.
Nor that it is unlikely that a normal, well-trained individual would balk at it.

Can you imagine that there were any particular conditions that applied/contributed in the example you gave? It was an unusual incident, why?

Maybe you can pose an alternative view of how the single offender and it was a single person, Bryant, could have committed the crimes?

BJelly,

A conspiracy would have required an impossible cooperation of investigators.

As well, while some might believe it could be easy to recruit trained personnel to commit such a crime, to me it is highly unlikely outside of Hollywood. It (squad recruitment) presents a whole range of difficulties, not the lest being that any who disagreed would be 100% certain to report the crime being planned.

otb: Unfortunately, that coward Bryant's very low IQ could have allowed him to carry out his disgusting mission that even a highly trained, disciplined soldier could not have performed because s/he could not have overcome his/her overwhelming horror and revulsion.

Even if it was cardboard images, a trained officer/soldier would falter. While being fully aware of the artificiality of the exercise, s/he could confidently be predicted to perform very poorly indeed.

"a trained officer/soldier would falter." ??,No they wouldn't.

CM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Every time the Platoon patrolled past that village the lost a man to a sniper. The village was warned a number of times & asked to hand the sniper over. They didn't & continued to shoot the Platoon,hence the Massacre. No one ever talks about that aspect of the incident.

OTB, my post was in relation to your ludicrous suggestion that membership of an armed force somehow precludes homicidality.

I see no reason to change my mind and I see no reason to entertain any kind of silly conspiracy theories in relation to Port Arthur.

The author's point is strong and is not at all new. Many people and societies throughout history have had to confront their own social values in response to perceived threats, both external and internal. It is because of their examples, both positive and negative, that we have a moral compass to guide us in evaluating how best to respond to threats that we perceive.

One thing that is new for our modern society is the enormous capacity of anonymous, cowardly pamphleteers to disseminate misinformed fear and loathing among the rest of the population. It will become another object lesson for future generations to place on the negative side of their moral compass.

It's just a damned shame that our leaders don't already have it there on their own moral compasses.

That should be 'least' not lest.

BJelly,

Just to add, it doesn't take any drilled stance or marksmanship to shoot someone from as close as Bryant did.

However it would require great evil and a singular cold detachment of which very, very few people are capable of, thank goodness.

Despite all of the bans, limits, restrictions and cotton-wool wraps possible, there is nothing outside of observant people, especially close relatives and acquaintances, noting and reporting suspect behaviour to police.

Craig Minns,

You have not dispelled my argument at all and nor have you posed an alternative explanation.

Jayb,

You have outlined some possible different conditions of the Vietnam incident which was an exception and by definition most unusual, hence the military soul-searching over what went wrong, training, leadership and so on.

jayb, the existence of a sniper does not justify the murder of hundreds of civilians, including children. What on earth is wrong with you?

OTB, you never had a point, that was the point...

Craig Minns,

That was an unnecessary, churlish, remark.

It is extremely unlikely that any normal professional soldier or member of the police force as another example could ever commit the crimes of Bryant.

That there was ever a Mi Lai massacre was a shock to the military as well. That is why it has been the subject of so much research and soul searching.

To those impressed with Martin Bryant's mass murdering aim and My Lai apologists.

Is it not obvious that a well aimed 500kg laser-guided bomb is The solution to the politico-judicial nicities of Islamic State dual citizenship?

No-one asks questions on whether Australian Super Hornets over Iraq killing IS Australians is a nice idea!

Court Cases and Judges are like speeding tickets at the Bathurst 1,000.

OTB, I'll take "churlish" over "stupidly trying to justify the unjustifiable" any day, thanks.

What was a shock to the military in relation to My Lai was that anybody thought it was unusual enough to be concerned about. Only Calley was ever convicted and that was for just 22 of the over 500 murders.

Here are a few more "unusual" events that occurred during the Vietnam War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Vietnam

Of course, it didn't start in Vietnam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre
That's not unique, there were several massacres of civilians by soldiers of both sides.

Perhaps you'd like something more current?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Afghanistan

I'm sure you can find many others to titillate you if you look. I'm equally sure that many of those will, like My Lai, have soldiers as perpetrators. Few will have been investigated. During WW2 for example, such events were simply ignored and sometimes even condoned by senior commanders.

I'm even more sure that many of them won't and that the victims are just as dead.

Fair dinkum I'm fed up with the moral grotesquerie that is such a feature of some commentary here.

Oh, Pete, are you still here? I thought you'd be off looking at pictures of corpses blown up by laser-guided bombs. I guess the pleasure doesn't last as long any more, eh?

You are such a party pooper Craig Moons.

Obviously not treating things seriously.

Hi OTB
I don't know if Martin Bryant did it or not. But there are some very strange things that happened that day.

If anyone is curious check out the Wikipedia page about the Port Arthur Massacre and see how accurate the kill shots were at the Broad Arrow Cafe - of 20 fatal shots - 19 were of the head and neck. Think how hard that would be in a cafe with people screaming, moving to take cover, blood, body tissue on the floor. According to the official story, one of the most deadly gun massacres in recorded history was conducted by a person who was not an expert shooter, with a mental age of 11, and did this all while shooting from the hip all under 2 minutes. It is possible but surely not probable.
Scroll down to the Broad Arrow Cafe section
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_%28Australia%29

The thing is that conspiracies theories always look crazy until documentation comes to light to prove they actually happened.

See Operation Northwoods - no one would think it credible that in 1962 the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff of the USA would go so far as to put forward a plan in writing and present it to President Kennedy to hijack and shoot down airplanes and kill civilians in Washington DC in order to give the military a pretext to invade Cuba, if it weren't for the documents that prove it.
http://www.dc911truth.org/flyers/11-11-06-handouts/Operation%20Northwoods.pdf

It would be hard to believe the CIA did many things until they were uncovered by the Church Committee in 1975. Just 2 examples, believe me there are more!

Project MKUltra - the CIA's illegal mind control program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Operation Mockingbird - CIA infiltrated media organisations -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

You could ask how any of these were able to be kept secret for so long? It is hard to believe isn't it? Even when you see the documents for yourself.

Once you realize governments are capable of this it makes you look more closely at things that make you go hmmm.

//It is extremely unlikely that any normal professional soldier or member of the police force as another example could ever commit the crimes of Bryant.//

It is a logical impossibility for anybody but Bryant to commit the crimes of Bryant. It is considerably more likely that police and soldiers could commit crimes of the same nature as Bryant's. They've done so before and I see no reason to assume they won't do so again.

Never heard of Woo Bum-kon (cop)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon

Or William Unek (cop)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Unek

Or Campo Elias Delgado (veteran)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_El%C3%ADas_Delgado

Or Robert Bales (soldier)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bales

Or Nidal Malik Hasan (soldier)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan

Or the most prolific mass murderer in the known universe, Vasily Blokhin (soldier)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin

Craig Minns and Toni Lavis,

I have many friends and acquaintances from the Australian armed forces and police forces. As I have found through helping in pre-Kindy and all of the way through schooling and volunteering through and membership of community groups, it is not unusual to find many serving and ex-forces personnel in voluntary and community interest work.

That is because like those splendid people in medical delivery and rescue to take another couple of examples, the people who are attracted to these vocations (and they do perceive their professions as vocations not just jobs) are people who are driven to serve the community. They are responsible people who want to be of service to others, to make a positive contribution to the community and to protect.

When I mentioned professional soldiers and police it is those people I was thinking of: the well-selected, well-trained, well-led Australian professional soldiers and police. I also referred to 'normal' to hopefully ensure no-one would run off with rare exceptions and unique conditions.

Contrary to what you may imagine, the recruitment, leadership and personnel management policies (eg behaviour and incident monitoring) that apply to the Australian services are more than adequate in ensuring that there are none of the irrelevant and extreme examples you both give from other countries and some quite mentally disturbed.

I stand by my previous assessments. I invite both of you to have another go. Here is the post,

onthebeach, Saturday, 20 June 2015 6:42:12 AM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17437&page=4

Below is a telling article for those who would defend the citizenship rights of terrorists. An article ABC Online has just posted June 21, 2015:

Headline - Australian doctor helping Islamic State in Syria, Tareq Kamleh, has 'no concern' if passport is cancelled

"A former Australian doctor now helping Islamic State (IS) in Syria has responded to moves to arrest him, saying he no longer considers himself a citizen and the prospect of his passport being cancelled does not concern him.

A warrant for Tareq Kamleh's arrest was obtained by the Australian Federal Police at a closed hearing of the Adelaide Magistrates Court on Thursday.

In a post on Facebook this morning Kamleh, 29, said he had "no concern" about any moves to cancel his passport or registration as a doctor.

"I no longer consider myself an Australian," he said.

"I anticipated an arrest warrant, hence why I left in secret."

see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-21/australian-doctor-tareq-kamleh-responds-to-arrest-warrant/6561600

otb, don't be silly.

There have been many instances of police bashing suspects (most recently there have been two cases in the media, both involving young men and both involving police trying to cover it up); there have been instances of police shooting people with no genuine self-defence argument to be carried (the 15 year old boy in Perth a couple of years ago who was shot several times and killed despite being surrounded by no less than 5 of those highly-trained officers); the Victorian Police had to do some serious cultural reorganisation a few years ago after a number of high-profile shootings; the list goes on and on.

I wouldn't be a copper or a soldier for quids, they're hard, emotionally taxing, thankless career choices, but don't try and convince me that the services are full of saints, that's just silly.

Hi Plantagenet - this was one of your comments on this topic on another thread earlier this month. People can and should be able to change their position on topics but this seems to be a complete u-turn. What happened?

"Barnaby Joyce's concerns, as revealed in the Cabinet leak, are particularly relevant.

If it is just up to (say) Brandis on the advice of (say) AFP or ASIO, to strip dual citizenship there is the risk of lack of natural justice and no appeal.

What if the person "A" to be stripped of citizenship:

1. is only 12 years old?
2. has a common name opening up the possibility the wrong person is stripped?
3. the main source of "incriminating" information is someone who hates A? Or from a competing tribe? Or some CIA nutter.
4. if A is a Sunni (perhaps not fighting) in Syria - might stripping course death at the hands of the Shiite Syrian Government?

Can Cabinet or even the Australian public be assured that the stripping process is robust and not open to doubt or defect?

A precedent in point is the Haneef case in 2007 where Haneef was stripped of his visa and temporarily locked up by then Immigration Minister on "character grounds". The Federal Court rapidly found this action to be "astounding" and based on faulty judgement and little evidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Haneef#Appeal_to_Federal_Court_against_visa_cancellation

There are even less checks and balances overseas."

What caused you to change your position on this topic in the last few weeks?

The problem isn't with removing citizenship from ISIS members, but the fact that we are radically changing our laws and values in order to give a minister the power to strip someone of their citizenship on the mere suspicion of wrongdoing.

Decisions based on arbitrary power and secret evidence behind closed doors is an inherently bad way to make such important decisions. I would have thought that would be obvious to anyone.

Courts aren't perfect, but justice is far better served by going through the legal system where evidence can be tested and heard by a judge and jury.

Craig Minns,

Australian police handle many thousands of public contacts and interactions each and every year.

It is to be expected that there will be some complaints. I am not even bothered to look such is my and I daresay the Australian public's trust in the police (and earned by them). In any event, the police Minister is answerable to the Parliament.

Dear Jelly Baby

My intellect knows no bounds - shifting with the winds of the world.

I am not a politician with static policies that cater to the minds of droogs like yee http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=droog .

Call me a mega-stud if yee will

....Cont

"CC: In essence, what about the near future for Syria, Iran and Ukraine (good guys)? Is Russia really the worst threat to humanity after Ebola?

Dr Roberts: As all evidence shows Russia has threatened no country. The Russian govt is totally non-confrontational. Russia appeals endlessly to international law without effect. Washington’s position is that Washington, as the “exceptional country,” is above all law, both international and domestic. Washington wants to overthrow Syria because Syria is an independent Middle Eastern country not ruled by a Washington puppet. Ukraine historically is an integral part of Russia. By overthrowing the Ukrainian elected govt and installing Washington’s puppets, Washington brings troubles to Russia. Like China, Russia is a constraint on Washington’s hegemony, and the destabilisation of these constraints is the driving force of Washington’s foreign policy. Washington’s captive European puppet States accommodate Washington’s drive to war with Russia and China. The war will be nuclear and will terminate life on earth.

And the near future:

CC: Finally, in your opinion what should we expect from the next US President? Whether it’s Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton or even a sudden outsider, what will change and what will not change in American politics?

Dr Roberts: The only thing that can be expected from the next US president is more war, more murder and more oppression of the gullible American people. People as uninformed and as gullible as Americans have no future. Americans are dead people that history is about to run over."

It looks like Port Arthur was a MOSSAD/ASIO/CIA job. Impossible to be a lone shooter with a low IQ. All our institutions have been infiltrated.
http://southeastasianews.org/portarthur/introduction.html

BJelly, Project_MKUltra. - I have seen a letter of a direct plea for help from someone who was/is a victim of these demonic human experiments. It was very clear that they struggled to write. Have you heard about the presence of UN troops and FEMA camps in the USA? It’s all on the net. Nothing will be on the Commie Corporate/Murdoch media.

Cont...

CM: jayb, the existence of a sniper does not justify the murder of hundreds of civilians, including children. What on earth is wrong with you?

I didn't say it did. I said it was Caleys reason. He cracked under the strain of losing a man to a sniper from that village every time he went outside the wire. to use OTB's words, :"even a highly trained, disciplined soldier could not have performed because s/he could not have overcome his/her overwhelming horror and revulsion."
& so it was with Caley.

Now I have to make a point here. Yes there were a few incidents of men cracking under the strain if Combat & committing unauthorized actions, or atrocities. There has always been a big cry from the Politically Correct Greenie Do-gooders about those atrocities & so they should. What I find strange though is the lack of the same abhorrence to the multitude of atrocities committed by the enemy. Be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese Regulars, the Taliban, Al Qaida or ISIS or any of the other multitude of Terrorist Organizations.

I find the lack of abhorrence & calling for these Organizations to Cease & Desist & be held accountable in a Court of Law somewhat strange. It is as if they condone the Terrorists many atrocities but abhor any committed by the Western Forces.

These Lefty, Politically Correct, Greenie Do-gooders seem to be blind to Terrorist atrocities. In fact many seem to go out of their way to excuse them, as some have done & still do on the Forum & OLO.

http://www.deliberation.info/jfk-zionism-rothschild/
http://foundationfortruthinlaw.org/jfk-vs-fed.html

MKUltra
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2015/05/RIR-150525.php

We are losing our freedoms bit by bit, more and more. Political Correctness origin is Marxism.
Intelligent interviews by a Swedish radio station:
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/nonsubscriber.php

All the mafias are Zionists.

You should all be honouring your ancestors and their beliefs who once had real freedom. Freemasons and Commies (Freemasons are controlled by them) have collaborated in causing wars and revolutions in Christian countries. Yeh, careful what you wish for? Oh, that dastardly pope – what a pest. The only leader to criticise corporate greed etc. What other leader does. Modern degressive liberalism is Fascist Communism. Our Marxist academics have invented white guilt. Guess who the real slave traders were, and still are. There was and still is white slavery, especially the Irish. They were treated worse than black slaves and were the first slaves in the US colonies and were children. Parents were afraid of their children being kidnapped (this is the originally meaning of the word "kidnapped). A hidden and untold controlled history. Its no coincidence that about half of Ireland was murdered by Zion backed Cromwell. Irish Holocaust - there was no potato famine. The West Indies had Irish slaves. Montserrat in particular.
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2015/02/RIR-150216.php
http://www.saveyourheritage.com/slavery.htm.

Cont....

Jayb, I can't speak for anybody else, but for my part I can't see any point in belabouring the bleedin' obvious point that atrocious acts are atrocious. Especially when they are committed by groups that do not in any way claim to hold to the same principles that are seen as fundamental to an operating Western liberal democracy.

However, there is a great deal of point in discussing why acting atrociously in response is a bad idea. There is also a great deal of point in discussing why such actions, when carried out in the name of a State that claims to be a Western liberal democracy, are not merely atrocious, but hypocritical and that they undermine the claim to superior moral/ethical grounding of the Western liberal democracy which permits such actions to be carried out in its name.

The same holds true for subversion of the rule of law in any way that undermines the fundamental commitment to just and fair process which is a fundamental aspect of Western liberal democracies. This includes the creation of statutory processes that seek to avoid the scrutiny of Courts, such as summary power vested in Ministers with appeal rights curtailed.

You commented in relation to the alleged sniper in a way that seemed intended to minimise the abhorrent actions of Calley and his men, none of whom were punished for raping, burning, bashing and shooting over 500 unarmed civilians, including women and children. German soldiers were hanged for less than that after the Nuremberg trials.

If you seek to defend Calley and his men, then you must similarly defend the men and women of the various insurgencies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, etc, etc, etc, who have been burying their babies and their wives and rebuilding their homes after attacks by Western liberal democracies for decades.

If you were one of them, what do you reckon you might think was a reasonable response?

...Cont

The Druids had open and free universities offering education to anyone from around the world to study for 20yrs! They were tutors to the Greeks and Romans. And apparently the Romans built their roads on top of the roads which the Druids had built. They even explored the world thousands of years ago and mingled with other indigenous people sharing wisdom. Nature, Oral history and recitation of thousands of poems produced fantastic memories. I even found a Cherokee Indian woman whose father told her how amazing the Druids were when they were in Nth America . They did not explore to conquer. They were peacemakers and had a highly advanced culture with priests, scientists, physicians etc. Men and women were equal. Now you have to ask why did the English invade and destroy the Irish monastery rural societies. Rothchild's London use to have signs "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs". Protestant Revolution (hardly a reform). Industrial Military Complex. Now look at today's Modern Society. We have pedophealia, slavery in many forms, genocides (Palestine etc) and total corruption.

Now I'm reading from various sources that 98% of DNA of Egyptian mummies is Celtic? There was also technology found in pyramids. The Harp features in ancient Egyptian art and apparently only there except for one modern day country with a harp on their flag. Ireland and their unique sports, like Hurling which apparently a similar sport played in old Egyptian times. Now, don't the English have a huge interest in Egyptology? And stronghold on it's archeology.

Ever heard of the lost 10 tribes of Israel? It's getting warmer.

It is a quiet gradual covert subversion of the West and rest of the world in destroying indigenous cultures and all cultures and the environment. They want to get rid of the middle class and have a slave robot society. It’s kinda subtle, it’s gradual, and the brainwashed will never see. We live in a drug soaked world. It is the elite’s covert war of sorcery which is totally against the rules of nature - God’s law.

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2013/03/10/the-new-world-order-is-communism-also-known-as-rothschildism-or-more-bluntly-robbery/

http://www.henrymakow.com/what_is_communism.html

http://planet.infowars.com/politics/how-communism-was-designed-to-bring-about-a-new-world-order

Interesting to get down to legal specifics of the actual Australian Law on war and dual citizenship that we are discussing:

If Section 35 of Australian Citizenship Act 2007 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2009C00251/70de7279-68b5-47da-b28f-67b17cb51817 :

"35 Service in armed forces of enemy country
(1) A person ceases to be an Australian citizen if the person:
(a) is a national or citizen of a foreign country; and
(b) serves in the armed forces of a country at war with Australia."

Do Courts or Judges have a say in "(1) A person ceases to be an Australian citizen." If so under what Law and Section?

Should section 35 cover enemy fighters who do not represent an actual country which therefore cannot be in a state of war with Australia?

CM: If you seek to defend Calley and his men,

Where did I say “I” defended Caley & his men. I said that Caley & his men used the constant sniping & killing of his men every time he went outside the wire as the trigger for what happened. That is not defending him. You are trying too hard. He & his men snapped as a result of that constant sniping. Of course I don’t expect you to understand they sort of pressure these men were under.

Maybe if you went to work every day driving a bus full of people & every day at one particular stop someone at one at that stop kills one of your passengers. The people at that stop won’t stop the person or point to who is doing it. The Authorities just tell you to keep taking the bus out 7 ignore the killings. Every day you MUST take the bus out on the same route & you know you are going to lose a passenger.

Do you think you would be under pressure to convince the people to give the murderer up? What means would you use to convince them? What would you do? You HAVE take the bus out. You have no choice. Would you say, “It’s nothing to do with me & keep taking the bus out, or would you sort the Bus Stop out?”

CM: you must similarly defend the men and women of the various insurgencies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, , after attacks by Western liberal democracies for decades.

I guess you have failed to get my point on purpose. I was talking about the atrocities committed against the civilian population by these Terrorist groups. You have tried to sidestep the argument.

Why haven’t I heard you or others condemn the terrorist for the mass killings of civilians. We hear News of atrocities every day & are met with stoney silence. Yet one Westerner goes off the rails & the uproar is deafening. Why is there no uproar from you & your breathern about those atrocities?.

//When I mentioned professional soldiers and police it is those people I was thinking of: the well-selected, well-trained, well-led Australian professional soldiers and police. I also referred to 'normal' to hopefully ensure no-one would run off with rare exceptions and unique conditions.//

I have no doubt that is the case. Nor do I doubt that the staggering majority of police, retired police, soldiers and veterans are decent blokes who would hate the thought of killing anybody, let alone killing a lot of people in a short space of time.

Nevertheless it would seem that soldiers and police are more likely to commit these sort of atrocities than the general public. At this point it is helpful to remember that correlation does not imply causation.

Hi Plantagenet,
I understand you are a complex and multifaceted person, but if that wasn't you, who was it cobber? I am a fan of your short snappy one liners - are they yours or your alter-egos?

Toni Lavis, "Nevertheless it would seem that soldiers and police are more likely to commit these sort of atrocities than the general public"

Thanks for getting to the nub of your concerns.

If we exclude governments - the most likely offenders where mass killing and other nasties are concerned, I reckon the dangerous types are the intelligent, usually well-educated young men who have grown up in a comfortable environment and become angry when 'authority', 'government' or 'society' do not give in to their wishes.

Here is an Australian example where luck intervened to greatly reduce the loss of life (premature detonation of a planted bomb sadly resulted in the death of refuse collectors),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_Hotel_bombing

In countries where tribal hatreds have gone on for years the military and para-military can be expected to carry out the abuses and blood-letting traditions with ferocity. That is the cultural inheritance. Not cultural traditions we would want to import.

Dear Jelly Baby

You may think me a visionary, nay a soothsayer - but I'm a man. I'm just a man.

https://youtu.be/lS2nX4fuzqc?t=1m10s

Your Savant

Pete

That’s right Jayb,

These are all planned false flags against the white race. Obama, Spielberg and other fellow Zionist seen at Beverly Hills hotel right after the govt planned shooting in Charleston (its on the Swedish radio site Redice). Sweden is imploding under Socialism with diabolical altruism exploiting Christian values. You see this is why they want to bring in anti-gun laws so that the demonised whites are unable to defend ourselves.

Charleston Church shooting: Active Shooter Threat Instructor Training Drill - Date match
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=33645

Here is their Illuminati PR firm in Beverly Hills (the Science of Zion Influence)
lir.im

http://lir.im/illuminati-press-contact/

http://www.illuminatiofficial.org/

People must see what the BIG PICTURE is. Read, read as much as you can. It is a giant lethal octopus bent on destroying the West. The Matrix is their theology of conquest on film. They believe if they reveal their evil deeds that it helps their karma. Yes, they control the Hollywood factory, remember. They have already turned us into slaves. And its going to get harder.

Gay marriage, gender blending, Feminism, Globalisation, dodgy trade international agreements etc are all Zionist creations. And read their Talmud and see just how unliberal , misogynistic and hypocritical they are. It’s disgusting. Communism is Satanic. Modern Liberals are Fascists.

You see the NEOCONS/FREEMASON COMMIES/ANGLO ALLIANCE have planned the destruction of the white race over centuries. Fernando, a Mexican (interview follows) confirms the damage that they have done with invasion/infiltration of traditional Christian countries, and their contribution in creating Third World Countries & what they did to Mexico, exporting the Wests manufacturing industries etc and importing third worlders. The NEOCONS control Western politics and happily enforce Multiculti in order to create chaos. I was writing about these connections with civil wars less than a year ago which lead me to who the real terrorists are. Not the Muslims. You see I use to work for Dept of Immigration and know how corrupt it is. I really felt I was working in a Commie dept. It should be called the Zion controlled Dept of Immigration.

Cont...

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2015/R314-150617.php

"Fernando Cortes is a Mexican national residing in Guadalajara, Mexico. He has been a self-proclaimed third position nationalist for over 15 years and has founded a handful of nationalist groups in Mexico that are geared towards guiding youth to becoming better citizens. Cortes was the MC at the recent International Identitarian Congress in Mexico. He is committed to helping establish international relationships among all identitarians, especially with his natural border, the United States. Fernando begins with a broad overview of the Mexican nationalist scene and how he came to identify with the movement. We discuss the economic climate of Mexico and Fernando gives an interesting explanation of the country’s historical relationship with the US, as well as the transformations and tensions that emerged along the road to Mexican independence. Fernando expands upon the mix of economic discrepancies amongst Mexican land owners and the power struggles with Spanish-descended elites that led to the Mexican-American war and resulted in a huge loss of Mexican territory. We then fast forward to the current situation of Mexican immigration to the US. We shed some light on how this upheaval of both populations is only aggravating the oppression created by transnational companies in control of natural resources. Fernando emphasizes how the Zionist/neocon model rests upon the economic bubble of US capitalism, and we consider where racial tension fits into keeping up this scam. Further, we scrutinize the common cultural Marxist parasite that is eroding away at the identities and values of European and Mexican descended Americans alike. At the end, Fernando explains where the traditional Mexican mentality vastly differs from the mainstream, politically correct American mindset, and we explore how White and Mexican identitarians can establish a healthy middle ground to conquer our shared oppressors."

Traditional western countries were once harmonious and connected. They want us to hate ourselves and our heritage. And its not just the White race, but all races except themselves. They want to erase everyone's culture.

Cont......

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=27722

Secret Globalist Treaty Threatens Internet Freedom
2013-11-13 0:00
By Kurt Nimmo | Infowars
Wikileaks has released a 95 page, 30,000 word document spelling out details on the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP). The secret globalist agreement will have a significant effect on a wide range of issues including internet freedom, medicine, patents, and civil liberties. The cabal will meet in Salt Lake, Utah, between November 19 and 24.

The draft text for the TPP Intellectual Property Rights Chapter spells out provisions for implementing a transnationalenforcement regime& designed to supplant national laws and sovereignty with a globalist construct. The TPP is by far the largest and most oppressive economic treaty devised thus far. It will have an impact on a staggering 40 percent of worldwide GDP. The TPP is the forerunner to the equally secret US-EU Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). Both treaties combined will cover 60 percent of world GDP and exclude China.

Enforcement will be accomplished by &;supranational litigation tribunals to which sovereign national courts are expected to defer.&; According to the document, the globalist courts can conduct hearings with secret evidence.

In addition, aspects of the treaty resemble SOPA and ACTA treaties with draconian surveillance mechanisms. In early 2013, thousands of websites &went black & to show solidarity in opposition to SOPA, or the Stop Online Piracy Act, legislation that seriously threatened the functionality of the internet. &;SOPA was an attempt to put the power of information back in the hands of an elite few who are rapidly losing the ability to control what the masses are reading, hearing and seeing,& Mac Slavo wrote in January, 2012.

If instituted, the TPP&;s IP regime would trample over individual rights and free expression, as well as ride roughshod over the intellectual and creative commons. If you read, write, publish, think, listen, dance, sing or invent; if you farm or consume food; if you&;re ill now or might one day be ill, the TPP has you in its crosshairs,Assange added.

Cont...

....Cont

Read the full article at: infowars.com
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A close examination of the Jewish corporate monopoly of the media, and how it came to be.
http://www.renegadebroadcasting.com/radio-wehrwolf-media-monopoly-6-17-15/

Ricardo Duchesne - The Uniqueness of Western Civilization & Multicultural Madness
http://www.redicemembers.com/secure/radio/program.php?id=841

http://irregulartimes.com/2007/08/21/spangler-lucifer-the-united-nations-and-the-new-age/

I know that they use the symbol of the Rainbow – Chabad (one of their many, many octopus organisations). Very new age, right?

Radio 3Fourteen - Sinéad McCarthy & Megan Elisabeth - European Preservation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfUsYANNxg

This interview is for subscribers as is in archives but fee is reasonable
Ricardo Duchesne - The Uniqueness of Western Civilization & Multicultural Madness
http://www.redicemembers.com/secure/radio/program.php?id=841

Kevin MacDonald is an evolutionist, and guess what, the liberals call him racist – No surprises there……………… Oh but they now have the 18c/Hate law to keep them safe (only they can be safe!)
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/

But we now live in a world of enforced anti-intellectualism in our cultural Marxist societies. It’s trendy, isn’t it? All you bourgeois status seeking posers are their useful idiots. Hi Foxy! That doesn't seem very cool and hip to me, baby. They have succeeded in brainwashing you with their psychology of "dialectic materialism". The degressives have two conflicting matters going on in their head which creates a neutrality in the middle, so are then unable to form rational opinions, and can only express political correct babble speak. Oh that Marx trixter and Heggels were pretty clever devils.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/

And they have been killing off whites over the centuries (and sacrificing Christian children – still happening thru real kidnappings and abortions). There were valid reasons for expulsions and inquisitions. So guess which race are the real wanderers on the run from their enemies over time. You see how they have demonised all Westerners. Guess who the real Hebrews are? The age of revelation looks like it is approaching.

Aaah Constance. I have to ask. Have you gone off you Meds lately? Just wondering Luv. Sometimes I get concerned for people. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

Jayb - You just jaber on without any backup or research just liking the sound of your own voice, while the West and the rest of the world sinks. Ignorance is bliss. You really think everything is just a coincidence? Why do Dept of Immigration employees feel like they're working in a factory for a Communist Regime where there is bullying and corruptness galore and the Union does nothing. You have no idea. You really don't think we live under Cultural Marxism? I'm hearing directly the US is looking more like a third world country, and a recent visit to Central Station had homeless men everywhere. You ignore Paul Craig Roberts, an ex US govt officer who secretly monitored the CIA under Reagan, and his present monitoring of US society? You are a fool and in denial of the ugly truth. Or a Commie yourself. Tell me what you know about Zionism? Answer please.

It certainly shows your ignorance and evasiveness when you use ad hominem. LAZY AS! Blind is the man with a closed mind.

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

- George Orwell

Murdoch also has Israeli citizenship.

"The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses generally referred to as 'international bankers.' This little coterie... run our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...[and] seizes...our executive officers... legislative bodies...schools... courts... newspapers and every agency created for the public protection." - John F Hyland

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."
- James Madison

Cont.......

Continuing on from yet another false flag at Charleston and the NEOCON's agenda:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros (he founded "GetUp" in Oz by the way. Part of the octapus of international political interference.
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=33678
Soros and State Dept. Funded Group Claims Most Terrorists in the U.S. Are White
2015-06-25 23:14
By Kurt Nimmo | infowars.com
Invents white terror threat from the actions of demented individuals
A George Soros and State Department funded organization, the New America Foundation, has released a report that states white Americans represent the largest domestic terror threat.

The organization claims the Charleston shooting, the murder of three police officers in Pittsburg by Robert Poplawski, Andrew Joseph Stack’s plane crash in Austin and other attacks constitute organized “right-wing” terror incidents instead of individual actions by mentally disturbed individuals.

The establishment media routinely exploits such attacks to villainize political enemies, including Alex Jones.

NBC News has highlighted the extremely misleading report and insinuates that people the government has designated as right-wing terrorists should be sent to Guantanamo Bay and militia groups along the border attacked with Predator drones.

Almost twice as many people have died in attacks by right-wing groups in America than have died in attacks by Muslim extremists. Of the 26 attacks since 9/11 that the group defined as terror, 19 were carried out by non-Muslims. Yet there are no white Americans languishing inside the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. And there are no drones dropping bombs on gatherings of military-age males in the country’s lawless border regions.

The claim that specific groups of white Americans are engaged in terrorist attacks against the United States is simply untrue and little more than propaganda designed to force the government to act against individuals and groups opposed to the federal government and its policies.

Cont......

...Cont

The establishment media reported that Wade Michael Page, the man accused of the Sikh temple shootings in 2012 was connected to the white supremacist movement, although no actual linkage was established beyond an unverified connection to the Hammerskins, a group that produces and distributes white power rock music.

Left unstated is the fact Page served from April 1992 until October 1998 as a member of the U.S. Army’s psychological operations unit.

NBC News also attempts to portray a couple who murdered two police officers in a Las Vegas pizza shop as members of a white supremacist group.

No link to an established white supremacy group was verified, although the liberal media attempted to portray Jerad Miller as an Alex Jones and Bundy ranch supporter. In fact, Miller was ejected from the Bundy ranch as a dangerous nuisance.

NBC is urging the government to respond to alleged right-wing terrorism.

“The shooting (in Charleston) has cast new light on the issue of right-wing terrorism in the United States. But since it can’t really use Special Forces or Predator drones on US soil, it remains unclear how the government will respond,” writes Peter Gelling.

The New America Foundation is supported by a number of other foundations, including the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts and the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google, Fareed Zakaria, and hedge fund manager and the son of George Soros, Jonathan Soros, sit on the board of directors.

Source: infowars.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxMxZdYrHw

www.revisionisthistory.org

www.big-lies.org/jews

http://www.radioislam.org/jfk/astucia/11.htm

By Gilad Atzmon

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/12/20/alain-finkielkraut-jews-and-immigration/

Tell me what you think of this, Jayb? Or are you too ignorant for time to bother? Or just too hard to confront? There's plenty of disturbing matters on the site below.

Jewish site:
http://come-and-hear.com/download.html#flyers

Find out about the
Jewish People
* their laws * their culture * their religion

http://www.Come-and-Hear.com
Dedicated to increased inter-faith understanding

Jewish law -- the law laid down in the historic Jewish holy book, the Talmud -- is being integrated into American law and society. What are the Jewish teachings on the burning issues of the day? Don't listen to ignorant second-hand reports. Read important sections of the Talmud in context and on-line at

http://www.Come-and-Hear.com

What are the Talmud doctrines about marriage and divorce? Child-adult sex? The death penalty? How does Jewish law treat Gentiles? Learn about the rabbi-designed religion that all peoples of the Earth will soon be following, and learn about the rituals we can expect to see when Israel builds the Third Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Help bring about inter-faith understanding. Come-and-Hear.com is easy to download,
ready for copying to CD's for broad distribution to people of good will.

http://www.Come-and-Hear.com

I see you still haven't taken your Meds Constance.

I will review your links.

Like all Religion. Once the Leaders of them get to interpret all the Rules the Religions all go to Shyte.

Lets see the Jewish Religion came out of a combination of a number of minor local Religions then added bits from other Religions in the Middle East. Christianity came out of the Jewish Religion after combining with various Mediterranean Religions adding more bits as the Romans conquered more peoples throughout Europe. Islam took Judaism & Christianity & added some local Arabian Religions & was enforced by a rouge Camel Thief into existence.

Jayb,

Have you ever wondered why the Jews were expelled from old Europe? Have you no idea that they were the Bolsheviks and Communists? They are revolutionaries and cause bloodshed wherever they go. Have you no idea of their domination in Western countries? You must see through all the politics and deception. They are masters of it. They are behind Globalisation/New World Commie Order. Disguised as Corporations for eg the Coal Seam Gas Mining corporations that can steal personal property - getting rid of farmers. Have you never heard of the Trans Pacific Partnership (a NeoCon) secret treaty where they will have the power to sue nations? Inform yourself for goodness sake. Do not you wonder why there are hardly any Christians left in the Middle East? We will be next. And you too, as an exChristian.

This Jewish site says it all. They are the Anti-Christ.

They speak in riddles and trickery. They have scrambled brains. The Talmud is their secret Torah bible. Old Europe wanted them burnt.

http://come-and-hear.com/editor/about.html

"Some Question the Talmud:
While many praise the Talmud, many have questions about it. The late American Protestant writer Elizabeth Kirkpatrick Dilling, author of The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today, (31) is one of those. (Ellipsis indicates omitted text.)
The Babylonian Talmud is the law for so-called Judaism. However, its pornographic, anti-Gentile and anti-Christian doctrines have often caused hostility against it. …

The Bible under Talmudic Judaism is considered to be a collection of simple tales fit only for fools, women and children. The Talmud "sages" thus must find new meanings in it by letter and number tricks which reverse the plain meaning and create out of it the permission to do otherwise forbidden crimes and misdeeds. The words of the Bible are continually misused and misquoted for purposes of blasphemy and reversal.


Cont......

...Cont

"Stealing for themselves the title of "Israelites," the Talmud "sages" teach that "God made a covenant with Israel only for the sake of that which was transmitted orally." (See Exhibit 60) And the Biblical "basis" of this is given as Exodus 34:27. But that verse states, instead: "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel" — the opposite! (Talmud, Gittin 60b, See Exhibit 204) The Talmudic reversal of Moses' written words are said to have been transmitted "orally," and through Moses himself — believe it or not!"

http://come-and-hear.com/editor/america_1.html

"America Is Rapidly Becoming Talmudized
In 1991, the US Congress declared the Talmudic Noahide Laws to be the basis "upon which our great Nation was founded" (see America's New Government Church). Under Noahide Law regulations, idolaters (which includes Christians by definition) are put to death.

In 1999, the Supreme Court agreed to consider an amicus brief based wholly on Talmudic law (see Sentence and Execution).

In November 2002, the American Orthodox Jewish community held a kosher dinner in the Supreme Court building to celebrate the establishment of the National Institute for Judaic Law. (22) The dinner was attended by 200 people, including three Supreme Court Justices. The purpose of the Institute is to introduce Talmudic laws into the US legal system and law schools.

It is thus the clear civic duty of every American to become intimately acquainted with the Talmud. Read articles at:
America's New Government Church: http://www.come-and-
hear.com/editor/america_1.html
Death Penalty: http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/capunish_1.html
Kosher Dinner: http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/cp-jp-11-09-2002 and http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/cp-jw-01-08-03

http://come-and-hear.com/editor/america_1.html
“The Jews have the 613 commandments of the Torah to observe. Non-Jews have the Noahide commandments, included within which are prohibitions against idolatry, theft, murder, adultery and incest, cruelty to animals, blasphemy and the responsibility to establish and maintain courts of justice in a just society.”

http://levant.tv/blog-posts/evil-triumphs-the-wests-hand-behind-isis-confirmed/
Greater Israel courtesy of Isis!
“The moment I heard the media christen the mercenary thugs used to murder Gaddafi & reduce Libya to rubble ISIS, I thought, here we go again. I knew exactly what I would be saying about this mob FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!

Frankly, quite how anyone can believe what the media & politicians have said about ISIS is a wonder of the world. Here we have an army of terrorists which the US seemingly can do nothing about. Already we are in the realms of fairy-tales & fantasy, yet since they keep reminding us how ISIS remains this terrible terrorist threat, it goes without saying they must believe people are still dumb enough to actually believe the crap they’re coming out with!
How sad…….. after being daft enough to leave a shitload of state-of-the-art firepower for these terrorists just to pick up off the floor, the entire US military is unable to stop these murderous maniacs? ARE YOU DUMB ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT?…….. Okay, just in case you need some help here –
1) How in the blazes can this band of terrorists continue to reap untold mayhem without somebody giving them a continuous supply of ammunition? If you believe the tripe you’re being fed, are you ever going to ask this most obvious question. Just in case you don’t know – you can’t wave a magic wand & say ‘hello all the ammunition under the Sun!’

2) ISIS has destroyed Libya, Iraq, Syria & is now turning its attention to Lebanon. In other words, up to now, these blood-thirsty Islamic terrorists so far have only slaughtered Arabs & Muslims. Are you telling me, as well as being deaf & dumb, they’re also blind as a bat?

Cont...

...Cont

3) Israel is a stone’s throw away but is yet to be threatened. Not one Israeli has died at the hands of ISIS. These terrorists sure know what they’re doing! All of Israel’s enemies are being slaughtered…… oh & by the way – the fact Israel is a stone’s throw away has proved to be an enormous shot in the arm to these lovely Islamic mass-murderers – you see Israel provides sanctuary for the ISIS wounded to be treated in Israeli hospitals …………. but don’t worry – the Israelis have assured everyone this is entirely for humanitarian reasons. Aaaaaaahhhhhhh how nice of them…….
IF YOU BELIEVE THE CRUD THEY’RE GIVING YOU, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!”

This is the Zionist/Anglo Military Industrial Complex. And the Coal Seam Gas Corporate invasion looks like the 2nd Industrial Revolution of crushing the people and forcing them into industrial slavery as happened in England, then the rest of the world.

Sarah Palin: "I Was Not Allowed" To Tell The Truth About Obama In 2008 (July, 26 2013)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujYfbuKt22o

Obama's Shocking Past Revealed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyulBKTq0X8

http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/the-real-reason-for-obamas-executive-amnesty/

http://transitionofamerica.com/2015/01/11/obamas-call-to-change-the-constitution/

Reagan Warned Us About Obama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hY1eagq88#t=123

Fa gawd sake Constance, Get back on ya Med or seek help Luv. We'd all hate for you to harm yourself.

Constance,

Thank you for your series of very boring posts,
You and the OP ought to get together.

IsMise, the creep is back again. Just shows whose side you are on. How are your guns going? And your condoning of paedaphilia.(?) How revealing.

Jayb, Just shows how uninformed you are, and dodging the ugly truth. Your only comments are personal insults. How insightful. So then, you just go along with cultural Marxism and corruption and it's only a matter of coincidence?

Jayb, How come the term "Jew" only made it's first appearance in the bible in the 18OO's? Tell me about the Jewish religion, Jayb, seeing you think you know the history? "Come and Hear" is a Jewish site, I'm only posting what's on their site. Would not they know about their own religion? Tell me about the Jews? Isn't this suppose to be a forum for discussion afterall?