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The Forum > Article Comments > A deeper look at revoking citizenship > Comments

A deeper look at revoking citizenship : Comments

By Xavier Symons, published 17/6/2015

Our particular post 9-11 socio-historical milieu has made it feasible for politicians to radically deconstruct the established liberal democratic understanding of citizenship.

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All this waffle about 'rights'. Does this person not know that the Islamic savages who could face the stripping of their citizenship do not believe in anyone else's rights
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 2:48:02 PM
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Pretty deep, Xavier - but it goes even deeper:

So citizenship is meant to safeguard human rights.

And human rights are granted by states.

First the state took away our freedom, citing a contract we never signed, then they gave us some of it back as "rights".

Had the state not taken away our freedom in the first place, then we would need neither rights nor citizenship.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 2:52:07 PM
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There is a simple but unpalitable way around this dilemma.
First recognise Islamic State, then declare war on Islamic State.
The 2nd step is just a recognition of reality anyway.

Then the rules of war apply. Anyone fighting with IS automatically
loses their Australian nationality. They are deemed to be a national
of IS and if they appear not in the national uniform with insignia, no
paybook or a serial number they can be shot as a spy.

If captured, equipped as above,they have to be treated as a POW, but
at the end or even before a cessation of hostilities, they could be
repatriated to IS or any successive government.

A delicious solution is it not ?
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 6:19:40 PM
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Well we are at war with ISIS! And if dual citizens go there to take up arms against our friends, allies and us, they are traitors, committing actionable treason! And able to be robbed of Australian citizenship, according to long standing law and precedent!?

In any event, I can find no redeeming argument for allowing them to keep their Australian citizenship; or return, but particularly if they know full well; that this would be the very first consequence for going to fight for ISIS, as more than willing volunteers/participants!

And I agree with Bazz; given ISIS sees itself as a state, let traveling intending terrorists become citizens of that entity, so they can't be actually rendered stateless!?

Not that it matters much, given believable accounts, volunteering folks (cannon fodder) can only leave as small blown apart particles; or, feet first and in a box; or just left where they fall?

And rendered stateless in any such event anyway!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 7:27:46 PM
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Yuyutsu, I was just wondering which 'freedoms' the 'state' took away from us, and which ones do you think they should give us back?

Are you suggesting that all people should be stateless, and/or not be a citizen of any country? What a mess that would make of the world!

You are always on about what seems to be a lawless, free society.
Maybe you are living in the wrong country?
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 7:58:53 PM
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Dear Suse,

If you sing in a choir or play in an orchestra, then you have very little freedom: you must watch the conductor attentively all the time and follow all their instructions very accurately, you cannot even breath when they say you can't, let alone make your own music or in your own time - yet it is not a problem, because you joined the group voluntarily and happily and so has everyone else.

Yet if I knew that my choir/orchestra has members (other than myself), even one, that were forced to be there against their will, then I would have a serious moral problem about remaining there - no matter how much I otherwise enjoy it.

A society based on land rather than on people, who orders others around as to what they must and/or may-not do on the sole grounds that they happen to live over the adjacent hill/valley, rather than on the grounds that they were happily willing to be part of that given society, is immoral and has no right to exist.

To clarify, there is nothing wrong about taking the necessary steps to ensure that the people over the adjacent hill/valley do not harm you, but that's a totally different issue (which could be elabourated on) and the way to achieve it should not pass through forcing them to become "one of us" against their will.

So the ultimate and paramount freedom is the freedom from society, or the freedom to choose your own society(s) regardless of where you happen to live. Once you have made your choice, freely however and without coercion, to live in a given society, then, like in a marriage, freedom is no longer a requisite, then what counts is whatever was agreed between you and your chosen society, as normally expressed by its constitution.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 8:58:46 PM
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