Where are all the conservatives and libertarians who should be in uproar? The proposed legislation to strip SUSPECTS of their citizenship is barbaric and medieval.

One of the things we used to pride ourselves was the fact Western Liberal Democracies observed the "rule of law". Where are the legal protections to prevent wrongful stripping of citizenship?

What do we know about human nature? We know that mistakes happen - and we tend to make bigger mistakes when emotions run high. That is why we try to reduce mistakes by putting in legal protections like the presumption of innocence, the need to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, being judged by a jury of our peers, and even with all these protections, we still get it wrong and innocent people get sent to prison.

Like Plantagenet said, we have made mistakes before as was seen in the Haneef case and others - ASIO, the AFP, politicans are all fallible. Even with the best will in the world people make mistakes. To strip an individual of their citizenship should never be done on mere suspicion of wrongdoing.

Isn't making someone stateless a modern form of banishment? In some respects this is a harsher punishment than improvement.

Who else will give them a passport if we revoke ours?

I find it ironic we are having this discussion when we will be "celebrating" the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta on the 15th June.

Clauses 39 and 40 of the Magna Carta state: “No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land.To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.”

Isn't interesting our Pommy PM who is keen on his Kings, Queens, Knights and Dames has been very quiet about this upcoming event?

Improvement - mean imprisonment - doh.

Hi BobJelly.

"Clauses 39 and 40 of the Magna Carta state: “No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land. To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.” '

Of course, in those days, there wasn't much concept of the rights of a 'citizen' - subject, possession, serf, even slave maybe, but not 'citizen'. Magna Carta and Habeas Corpus referred to the right of every person to a trial, not to be locked up on a lord's whim. Or are you suggesting that citizenship is a possession ?

Somebody talked about 'mistakes'. Suppose some bloke out at Dubbo killed half a dozen people and beheaded them, and photographed his kid holding up one of the heads. Would we suggest that perhaps at worst, he had made a mistake ? Yes, maybe he should apologise for his mistake: would that make it okay ?

Joe

Hi Loudmouth,

Then if and when he tries to return he should his day in court, and he should be imprisoned if found guilty - like any other mass murderer. I have no problem with that. I have no sympathy for murderers.

For once I agree with Bernardi, Turnbull and Bishop that revoking citizenship should be overseen by courts, it should not be given to a Minister on the mere suspicion of wrong doing.

I thought that was one of the things our forbears fought for? To live in a country where courts and juries decide guilt or innocence, not government ministers - that is verging on totalitarian - it is certainly authoritarian.

We have ways of excluding people who have broken the law - they are called prisons and under our Western values we don't just lock people up unless it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt they have broken the law. This latest Captain's call would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.

Hi Joe

Things in failed state/stateless Syria and Iraq are somewhat more confused and confusing than Dubbo.

If a whole band of 12y year olds are using the alias "Muhummud" whose to know whose citizenship to strip? Will Brandis or Julie Bishop in Australia get fifth hand incorrect info?

Are there enough neutral, apolitical, observers there to trust in Syria-Iraq and Canberra?

Pete

Perhaps you're right, Pete, we should just let it go. After all, we don't want to make mistakes.

Joe