Barnaby Joyce's concerns, as revealed in the Cabinet leak, are particularly relevant.

If it is just up to (say) Brandis on the advice of (say) AFP or ASIO, to strip dual citizenship there is the risk of lack of natural justice and no appeal.

What if the person "A" to be stripped of citizenship:

1. is only 12 years old?
2. has a common name opening up the possibility the wrong person is stripped?
3. the main source of "incriminating" information is someone who hates A? Or from a competing tribe? Or some CIA nutter.
4. if A is a Sunni (perhaps not fighting) in Syria - might stripping course death at the hands of the Shiite Syrian Government?

Can Cabinet or even the Australian public be assured that the stripping process is robust and not open to doubt or defect?

A precedent in point is the Haneef case in 2007 where Haneef was stripped of his visa and temporarily locked up by then Immigration Minister on "character grounds". The Federal Court rapidly found this action to be "astounding" and based on faulty judgement and little evidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Haneef#Appeal_to_Federal_Court_against_visa_cancellation

There are even less checks and balances overseas.

If a person has committed a crime and that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law then the appropriate penalty should be applied. However, the only time the penalty should be loss of citizenship is the case where it can be proven that the person obtained citizenship by giving false information when applying for citizenship.

Abbott should just do it. We are talking about vicious thugs who hate us and want to kill us. All the wackos and goody goodies who doubt that terrorists should have their citizenship removed should be asked to think about their own rights to hold Australian citizenship - so keen as they are to protect scum who threaten the country.

More than 200 years ago James Madison wrote:
"In framing a government ..., the greatest difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself."

The Australian government, along with other Westminster systems of the Anglosphere, has long failed to control its lust for power. We, the people, now realize we lie exposed to the tyranny of the executive government. Stripping citizenship by executive fiat is but one symptom of this rot.

Not only do I agree with Mr Abbott, but would ensure Australian passports are cancelled before the intending terrorist/foreign fighter takes off for the M.E., thereby obliging them where possible, to apply for another nations passport; and possible for the sons and daughters of migrants!

And should that action be successful; Automatically revoke their Australian citizenship!

Alternatively we could ask an allied M.E. nation to issue a temporary passport/visa, say Qatar? Which seems to have a penchant for very low paid foreign workers?

And once there the intending returnee can (on their one day off a month) contact our embassy and pass a space age lie detection test, (which they must pass) with regards to their intentions and where they were; and what they did and for who, whilst away!

Yes sure it puts the onus of proof on them; and rightly so, given we have troops operating as advisers in that part of the world, who could have just as easily been fired on as fully operational troops, and therefore and for all practical purposes, the very treason needed to legally strip an "Australian" of their Australian citizenship!

For mine so called Australians who leave these shores to fight for ISIS, should simply never ever be allowed to return, given they would automatically fail the essential character test!

And just as applicable, or maybe even more so for native born Australians!

No they shouldn't be made stateless, just the indentured servant population/pool, (go where you told and serve who you're told, for just your bed and breakfast) in a place like (a fully cooperating) Qatar?

Yes sure Australian citizens have certain rights!

But rights always come with responsibilities! Like say being here and available for our draft in times of war!

Citizenship is not a shield that allows a person or person to do the unthinkable (commit war crimes or crimes against humanity with impunity) minus normal, fair and just repercussions!

And make no mistake, we are at war and with the most evil and depraved (Satan's servants) foe we have ever confronted! No ifs, buts or maybes!
Rhrosty.

See this Cartoon http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment

Oz had many kings, some good, some not so good, and some really terrible. King Abbott the Mean was a terrible king. There are stories about him saying things like he had put a peasant in prison so he could seize the man's horse and cart. King Abbott the Mean was also a liar. He lied to get his own way. He was also very domineering. He expected to get everything that he wanted just because he was king.

King Abbott the Mean did not even like one Knight marrying another Knight OR Girls Upon Other Girls.

Promises meant nothing to King Abbott the Mean. He would promise anything if there was money in it for him, but as soon as he saw an advantage for himself, he broke his word. See the whole Fairytale from Aunty Tanya http://medievaleurope.mrdonn.org/magnacarta.html

Where are all the conservatives and libertarians who should be in uproar? The proposed legislation to strip SUSPECTS of their citizenship is barbaric and medieval.

One of the things we used to pride ourselves was the fact Western Liberal Democracies observed the "rule of law". Where are the legal protections to prevent wrongful stripping of citizenship?

What do we know about human nature? We know that mistakes happen - and we tend to make bigger mistakes when emotions run high. That is why we try to reduce mistakes by putting in legal protections like the presumption of innocence, the need to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, being judged by a jury of our peers, and even with all these protections, we still get it wrong and innocent people get sent to prison.

Like Plantagenet said, we have made mistakes before as was seen in the Haneef case and others - ASIO, the AFP, politicans are all fallible. Even with the best will in the world people make mistakes. To strip an individual of their citizenship should never be done on mere suspicion of wrongdoing.

Isn't making someone stateless a modern form of banishment? In some respects this is a harsher punishment than improvement.

Who else will give them a passport if we revoke ours?

I find it ironic we are having this discussion when we will be "celebrating" the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta on the 15th June.

Clauses 39 and 40 of the Magna Carta state: “No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land.To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.”

Isn't interesting our Pommy PM who is keen on his Kings, Queens, Knights and Dames has been very quiet about this upcoming event?

Improvement - mean imprisonment - doh.

Hi BobJelly.

"Clauses 39 and 40 of the Magna Carta state: “No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land. To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.” '

Of course, in those days, there wasn't much concept of the rights of a 'citizen' - subject, possession, serf, even slave maybe, but not 'citizen'. Magna Carta and Habeas Corpus referred to the right of every person to a trial, not to be locked up on a lord's whim. Or are you suggesting that citizenship is a possession ?

Somebody talked about 'mistakes'. Suppose some bloke out at Dubbo killed half a dozen people and beheaded them, and photographed his kid holding up one of the heads. Would we suggest that perhaps at worst, he had made a mistake ? Yes, maybe he should apologise for his mistake: would that make it okay ?

Joe

Hi Loudmouth,

Then if and when he tries to return he should his day in court, and he should be imprisoned if found guilty - like any other mass murderer. I have no problem with that. I have no sympathy for murderers.

For once I agree with Bernardi, Turnbull and Bishop that revoking citizenship should be overseen by courts, it should not be given to a Minister on the mere suspicion of wrong doing.

I thought that was one of the things our forbears fought for? To live in a country where courts and juries decide guilt or innocence, not government ministers - that is verging on totalitarian - it is certainly authoritarian.

We have ways of excluding people who have broken the law - they are called prisons and under our Western values we don't just lock people up unless it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt they have broken the law. This latest Captain's call would be a joke if it wasn't so serious.

Hi Joe

Things in failed state/stateless Syria and Iraq are somewhat more confused and confusing than Dubbo.

If a whole band of 12y year olds are using the alias "Muhummud" whose to know whose citizenship to strip? Will Brandis or Julie Bishop in Australia get fifth hand incorrect info?

Are there enough neutral, apolitical, observers there to trust in Syria-Iraq and Canberra?

Pete

Perhaps you're right, Pete, we should just let it go. After all, we don't want to make mistakes.

Joe

No one is suggesting we don't punish or strip the citizenship (of a dual national only) of anyone convicted of a serious crime overseas, but rather that the decision re the stripping of this citizenship is made in a court of law that Australia recognises, and not any Jo-blo politician who knows nothing about the law.

We can't have our politicians being judge, jury and executioner.
Haven't they been given more than enough power already?

What's really happening:
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1147&cat=satire

When Abbott was plucked from the set of Angels and Demons http://kalyanb4u.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/ad1.jpg we never knew it would get so bad.

A national security expert assesses Abbott's Ugly Australia http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/australias-medieval-turn/ :

"There is room to ask whether Australian national security policy has taken a medieval turn. There have been more than a few manifestations: draconian laws on freedom of speech and widespread surveillance; entrenched disbelief in science and lack of investment in it; an anti-terrorism policy premised on mantras about the ‘death cult’ and crude references to Islam; mandatory detention of asylum seekers; uncritical repetition of doctrines of strategic faith from the spiritual capital (Washington DC); vengeful attacks on critics; and now the plan to create “civil outlaws” of Australian citizens (allegedly) fighting for the death cult."

Be afraid of what Australia's Neocons reap. Dubya is like Bambie on Marshmallows in comparison...

Plantagenet, you have certainly frightened me!
Suse.

Once again, ladies and gentleman, once again, the Human Rights Commission and the loony left are displaying their overwhelming concern for terrorists, bikies, criminals, and boat people, and to hell with the rest of the population. I have to thank Binoy for demonstrating why the taxpayer funded Human Rights Commission should be abolished.

The cancellation of Australian citizenship has been around without complaint or even use since 1949. The criteria for cancellation was for those "Australians" who were found to be fighting for an enemy "state" against Australian troops. That is pure common sense and nobody ever had a problem with that. The problem with that definition today, is that we now live in the Age of Islamic Terrorism, and we do not recognise ISIS, Al Qaida, Jemaah Islamiah, or Boko Haram as "states."

Once again the loony left is claiming that the only way to deal with 'Australians" fighting for an enemy army complete with anti aircraft guns, tanks and artillery intent on our total destruction, is to arrest them and put them on trial. That is like saying that the 6th Australian Division should have arrested Rommel and the Africa Korps and put them all on trial. We do not "arrest" enemy soldiers, no matter what their nationality. We shoot them, and we don't care if we hit them in the arse or the elbow.

Australia hands out citizenship like lollies, but the loony left thinks it is absolutely wrong to take it back when we belatedly figure out that some people have got their fingers crossed behind their backs when they make the Oath of Allegiance. Their only allegiance is to Allah, Centrelink and public housing. One thing is certain. Nothing given away so freely is ever valued.

And once again, the loonies cry that taking away citizenship is akin to totalitarianism, even though those countries now cancelling citizenship are the most free in the world. And where was Binoy, and the ever complaining, ever nay saying loonies, when Andrew Bolt was on trial for exercising free speech, and freedom of the press?

Lego, your post on revocation of citizenship in Australia is misleading because revocation may occur if you are found to have committed a serious criminal offence prior to gaining citizenship, or otherwise acted in "bad faith" in your application.

The DIAC website clearly says "An Australian citizen by birth cannot have their Australian citizenship revoked. Similarly, a person conferred citizenship, after fully disclosing all relevant factors, cannot have their Australian citizenship revoked."

Hi LEGO,

Is Cory Bernardi a loony lefty?
Conservative Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi has spoken out against plans to strip suspected Australian terrorists of their citizenship, describing it as "absolutely wrong" and "dangerous power creep".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-01/anti-terrorism-citizenship-changes-absolutely-wrong-liberal/6512594

Is Senator Brandis a loony lefty?
According to participants, Senator Brandis, in opposing the plan, told the cabinet meeting: "I am the Attorney-General. It is my job to stand for the rule of law."

Is Barnaby Joyce a loony lefty?
Mr Joyce put to the meeting: "Isn't that what we have courts for?", according to people present.

The cabinet members who spoke against the proposal were Defence Minister Kevin Andrews, Foreign Affairs Minister and deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop, Attorney-General George Brandis, Agriculture Minister and deputy Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce, Education Minister Christopher Pyne and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull, according to people present in the room.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/cabinet-revolt-over-tony-abbott-and-peter-dutton-plan-to-strip-australians-of-citizenship-20150526-gh9q8y.html

"There is room to ask whether Australian national security policy has taken a medieval turn." Medieval, really. What a load of crap.

Meanwhile defend the real medieval force that is wrecking havoc, cutting off heads, crucifying people, and threatening democracy around the world. Defend those using a 1500 year old ideology as justification for their brutality. Yes, real smart, so smart I'll go so far as to call it a fine example of Arab logic.

If you are more afraid of Tony Abbott than you are of ISIS you are a very confused soul. How much freedom do you think you will enjoy under Sharia Law? Do you really think these barbaric tribal marauders give a damn about your Climate Change religion?

Choose your side as you will, but in the distant future when its too late and your grandchildren are forced to recite the Koran and pray five times a day, you'll be wishing you hadn't been so gullible.

LEGO is one of the few on OLO telling it like it is, but why listen to him when you can find a whole bunch of other loony crap to believe.

ConservativeHippie,

"If you are more afraid of Tony Abbott than you are of ISIS you are a very confused soul. How much freedom do you think you will enjoy under Sharia Law? Do you really think these barbaric tribal marauders give a damn about your Climate Change religion?

Choose your side as you will, but in the distant future when its too late and your grandchildren are forced to recite the Koran and pray five times a day, you'll be wishing you hadn't been so gullible.

LEGO is one of the few on OLO telling it like it is, but why listen to him when you can find a whole bunch of other loony crap to believe."

Time to take a Bex methinks.

You're exactly the type who falls rapidly into step when leaders start tooting a "perceived threat".

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp

Goering explains...

"....Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Hi Suse

Yes the Abbott Government by hyping dark imminent threats against Australia - which have lead to only One terrorist murder since 1979 - has put the frighteners on us all.

The Monis inquiry is revealing that that guy was no Muslim at all - sought-of a Muslim background but mainly a dangerous nutter seeking attention through a siege.

The vast, vast majority of murderers in Australia (by siege or otherwise) come from sought-of Christian backgrounds.

I'm surprised Poirot, I didn't think you were that paranoid. I could say something about the climate alarmists using the strategies of Goering to rally support for their crusade, but that's probably justifiable in your world?

Plantagenet - what is "sought-of"? Or do you sort of mean something else?

ConservativeHippie

Monis was a bundle of many influences. The Monis inquiry is increasingly showing that things like attention seeking, mental illnes, money, vanity-need for fame and recognition drove hime.

It is up to motivation specialists in ASIO and AFP to decide whether he was driven by Islam a combination of influences above or something else.

We've been fed Monis = Islam by the Abbott Government so far.

But it seems that Islamic groups and mosques in Australia were sick of him.

"I'm surprised Poirot, I didn't think you were that paranoid..."

Lol! - Nice try, ConservativeHippie.

But let's reprise your former post - and the folks here can see real paranoia in action!

"If you are more afraid of Tony Abbott than you are of ISIS you are a very confused soul. How much freedom do you think you will enjoy under Sharia Law? Do you really think these barbaric tribal marauders give a damn about your Climate Change religion?

Choose your side as you will, but in the distant future when its too late and your grandchildren are forced to recite the Koran and pray five times a day, you'll be wishing you hadn't been so gullible."

(You're welcome:)

Plantagenet, can you please show us a link that discusses: "We've been fed Monis = Islam by the Abbott Government so far."

As I remember it, the government was back stepping at a ridiculous pace away from blaming Islam, saying Monis was deranged and acting alone, not affiliated with ISIS, etc.

Show me your information to the contrary.

Its amazing what a selective memory you Abbott haters have; or maybe you just prefer to make up what you wish he said and hope none of us will call you out. Second time this week someone has presented an Abbott Islamophobic accusation with no substance behind it.

Tell me Plantagenet - Is terrorism not terrorism if the perpetrator is a bit unhinged? Personally I think anyone who would leave Australia to go join ISIS is unhinged; does that absolve them of their crimes?

The Chemtrails I saw today in my NSW town was unbelievable. Just before the sun went down, there were black streaks/lines all over the sky. And there is no-one to complain to. There is also a lot of strange aircraft at night.

There is terrorism occurring in every form - bioterrorism/geo-engineering - HAARPS (climate control), vaccinations,immunisations, fluroide (rat poison). Chemtrails. Climate change is a hoax for higher taxes. The evil powers that be control the media that's why we never hear of this evil. People are getting sicker and sicker. Viral, breathing problems etc. All the political parties are the SAME. There is no left or right. NeoCons are sons of Trotsky.

Vaccinations contain monkey virus and even human foetuses. BIGPHARMA controls all this. This is what causes cancer, autism etc. They are killing us slowly. The multinational corporations are the uber capitalists/Communists. It is a double coin. It's happening everywhere in the western world and beyond. They want every civilisation, especially the West destroyed.

http://www.theeventchronicle.com/metaphysics/spiritual/montague-keen-message-for-may-31-2015/

Chemtrails
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=362&cat=satire

http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=656&cat=satire

http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=718&cat=satire

Royal Family atrocities
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=546&cat=satire

http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1077&cat=satire

Ukraine holocaust
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=363&cat=satire

Cont...

Constance,

Are there any conspiracies that you "don't" believe in?

Anything vaguely on topic?

G'day ConservativeHippie

Yes, no, yes - keep on searching.

Abbott?

ConservativeHippie,

ISIS appears to be able to march on with seeming impunity.

Notwithstanding that the US and its allies were integral to the destabilisation of the region which contributed to the foramation of ISIS, they don't appear to be able to assist the Iraqis to fend off this diabolical menace. In fact, even though the US since 2003 has spent $25 billion training Iraqi security forces, these forces don't appear to have the organisation or the will to stand up to their foes.

Things are verging on the ridiculous, as ISIS manages to serially relieve Iraqi forces of their transport and weapons on a regular basis.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/06/02/dude-wheres-my-humvee-iraqi-equipment-losses-to-islamic-state-are-out-of-control/

"Iraqi security forces lost 2,300 Humvee armored vehicles when Islamic State overran the northern city of Mosul in June 2014, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi said on Sunday in an interview with Iraqiya state television. Coupled with previous losses of American weapons, the conclusion is simple: The United States is effectively supplying Islamic State with tools of war the militant group cannot otherwise hope to acquire from its patrons.

In addition to the Humvees, Iraqi forces previously abandoned significant types and numbers of heavy weapons to Islamic State. For example, losses to Islamic State include at least 40 M1A1 main battle tanks, as well as small arms and ammunition, including 74,000 machine guns, and as many as 52 M198 howitzer mobile gun systems."

Now I realise that ISIS is as debased as it comes, and much mileage can be had domestically by demonising refugees, but the crux of the problem lies on the ground in the regions of Syria and Iraqi where these debacles are taking place.

I find something pathetic about folks back here shrieking about Sharia Law and what's gonna happen to the grandkids when we're all taken over, while nothing is mentioned of the dog's breakfast the US and US-backed Iraqis are making of defending their territory year after year after year.

They planned multi-culturism in order to divide cultures and create chaos.

Jobs/manufacturing overseas
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=257&cat=satire

Manufacturing industry by Craig Paul Roberts
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/03/when-truth-is-suppressed-countries-die.html

Israel racist flag and speech by Israel politician
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=332&cat=satire

The Global Warming Scam and lies
https://w3.newsmax.com/LP/Finance/RWL/RWL-Dark-Winter?Dkt_nbr=jhtrrfa9&nmx_source=TheStandS4Network-Conservative&nmx_medium=widget&nmx_content=448&nmx_campaign=widgetphase2

brainwash
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=202&cat=satire

sheeple/debt slaves key to take over
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=677&cat=satire

Hate Bill/18c
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=381&cat=satire

Sheeple
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=151&cat=satire

brainwash
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=202&cat=satire

sheeple and 9/11
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=649&cat=satire

sheeple/debt slaves key to take over
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=677&cat=satire

Fracking
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=695&cat=satire
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fracking-suicide-capitalism-poisons-the-earths-fresh-water-supplies/5368362

Countdown to destruction by global banks
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=719&cat=satire

climate action plan
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=926&cat=satire

Gore arrest
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=322&cat=satire

Monsanto buys out india
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1160&cat=satire

vaccinations etc
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=582&cat=satire

vaccines
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=404&cat=satire

fukishima
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=631&cat=satire

soursop cure for cancer
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=663&cat=satire

Israel bitch
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=656&cat=satire

Zionist puppet
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=720&cat=satire

Rothschild media
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1164&cat=satire

robot news reader
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1077&cat=satire

No information / misinformation
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=655&cat=satire

Gaza Genocide
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=317&cat=satire

debt
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=133&cat=satire

The Constitution - Marx
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=350&cat=satire

the church
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=682&cat=satire

truth is no defense
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=388&cat=satire

obey
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=145&cat=satire

climate change lie
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=421&cat=satire

HAARP/Agenda 21/manmade drought (Primary Water)
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1196&cat=satire

Ron paul audit the Fed
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=324&cat=satire

Ron Paul asks too many questions/can’t win
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=574&cat=satire

Monsanto
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=395&cat=satire

Morgellons Syndrome
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=407&cat=satire

Free Speech zone
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=371&cat=satire

free speech
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=375&cat=satire

Charlie Hebdoe false flag
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1186&cat=satire

Cell Towers
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=629&cat=satire

Plantagenet, you and Constance would make a great pair.

I know it sounds crazy that the West are supporting vile terrorists like ISIS, except there are documents that prove that we are. Awkward!

2012 Defense Intelligence Agency document: West will facilitate rise of Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”

On Monday, May 18, the conservative government watchdog group Judicial Watch published a selection of formerly classified documents obtained from the U.S. Department of Defense and State Department through a federal lawsuit.
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-intelligence-agency-document-west-will-facilitate-rise-of-islamic-state-in-order-to-isolate-the-syrian-regime/

ConservativeHippie's juvenile insults aside...

Here's something interesting on ABConline today http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-03/nearly-300-people-stopped-from-leaving-by-anti-terror-officers/6519766

"Nearly 300 people stopped from leaving to fight in Middle East by counter-terrorism officers: Dutton"

Counterterrorism officers have stopped 288 people from leaving Australia to fight in the Middle East, Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says.

Mr Dutton said the officers had either prevented people from boarding or had removed them from planes before they took off.

He said they had also assessed more than 100,000 people who were seeking to leave the country.

"We will provide support to these officers because they are stopping these people going across to fight in the Middle East," he said.

"They are stopping them when they come back to this country and this government, Madam Speaker, will absolutely stand up with those officers to keep the Australian public safe."

It comes as the Government revealed it cancelled the passports of 18 people suspected of involvement in terrorist activity in the last three months.

The Department of Foreign Affairs said it had also suspended the passports of nine other people since last December.

Department officials told a Senate estimates hearing 118 passports had been cancelled in the last two-and-a-half years...."

Cabinet must have agreed to "before they leave cancellation" while too many in Cabinet seem to have opposed overseas cancellation.

ISIS has captured US arms from the Iraqi Army, therefore the USA is supporting ISIS?

Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cuckoo.

When somebody says something so idiotic, you know that there is no point in arguing against them. I would like to nominate BJelly for the next Nobel Prize for Science, for successfully proving that parallel universes really do exist.

Hi Lego,

Thanks mate!
This ISIS fiasco is simply a rerun of Operation Cyclone in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The West has a history of supporting Islamic fundamentalists when it suits them.

Operation Cyclone involved the CIA funding the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Not unlike the West supporting Al Qaeda backed rebels to topple the Gaddafi regime in 2011 and now aiding Al Nusra Front (Al Qaeda) in Syria. Al Qaeda splintered into ISIS in Iraq to form an even more radical Islamic terror group. They have been useful to us in Syria as they have been fighting against the Assad regime.

Think of ISIS as our beserker army. They are useful against our enemies and the populations of Western Liberal democracies as we clamour for ever more security and surveillance to protect ourselves from them.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
H. L. Mencken

Here's a clip of Zbiginiew Brzezinski in the late 1970s giving a pep talk to the Mujaheddin - he wanted to arm them in secret without revealing America's role. Also includes a pic of him with Osama Bin Laden in the good old days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJTv2nFjMBk

Here's a clip of Hillary Clinton stating we are responsible for Al Qaeda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd0fLAbV1cA

The Iraqis are complaining that coalition forces could be doing more to help them fight ISIS

"BAGHDAD: Iraqi commanders heavily dependent on outside support to defeat ISIS are increasingly voicing frustration over the U.S.-led coalition’s efforts, complaining of miscommunication, failed deliveries of weapons, inadequate training and differences in strategy."
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jan-24/285179-iraq-coalition-tensions-rise-in-isis-fight.ashx

Here is another story about the US supporting ISIS
Secret Pentagon Report Reveals US "Created" ISIS As A "Tool" To Overthrow Syria's President Assad
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-23/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-us-created-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad

Poirot - can you please explain the black streaks covering the sky before sundown. Why is everyone talking about where I live?

Hippie - you're gullible, falling for their propaganda. You know Murdoch is one (he has purposely hidden his true ancestry). Why is he so hell bent on buying up most of the media around the world?

ZION OLYMPICS 2012
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=548&cat=satire

Rik Clay 4hr interview on Zion Olympics (found dead after he exposed the truth)
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=4789

JFK Secret Societies Speech (full version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdMbmdFOvTs

John F. Kennedy Speeches
The President and the Press: Address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 27, 1961

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-Newspaper-Publishers-Association_19610427.aspx

If I'm happy to pair off with Planet and JFK.

They have caused millions and millions of deaths for centuries and are still at it. It's covert for goodness sake. Wake up.

Once more for the dummies.

The USA, Britain, Egypt, Israel, and Saudi Arabia aided the Afghans when the USR invaded Afghanistan. This resulted in the collapse of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact, the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the freeing of over 300 million east Europeans from Soviet bondage. Russia in terms of military threat to world peace today is but a shadow of it's former self. How you can see this as some sort of catastrophe is beyond me.

The rise of aggressive Islam as a threat to world peace was not contemplated by anybody prior to the fall of the USSR. It is an entirely new phenomenon, and even today, blithering idiots such as your good self claim that there is no problem with Islam.

One division of US marines would push the entire ISIS army right back to hell where it came from. But the USA is sick and tired of being the world's policeman and getting no thanks for it.

Intelligent people presumed that the "Arab Spring" which got rid of so many tyrants like your mate Ghaddafi, would be just like the collapse of the pro Soviet regimes in Eastern Europe which resulted in the creation of democratic governments there. But Arabs are not Europeans. The Arabs are to far under the thumbs of the mullahs to think straight.

LEGO,

"....But the USA is sick and tired of being the world's policeman and getting no thanks for it."

What a load of old rubbish. The US was primarily responsible for destabilising this region. They engineered the "evidence" to fit their intentions re Saddam and his oil fields.

We all know that.

Great policemen - they stomp over there and give no credence to ancient rivalries, etc, stir up a hornet's nest and create nothing but misery...and now you tell us:

"One division of US marines would push the entire ISIS army right back to hell where it came from...."

Well why don't they...I mean why?

The little sooky excuse that they're "sick of being the world's policeman" doesn't wash. They went out of their way to get involved in Iraq - and through their short-sighted naive actions, they contributed to creating a monster.

To Poirot

The man who "destabilised the region" was Saddam Hussein. You probably think that the USA was responsible for destabilising Europe by attacking Hitler, and destabilising Asia by attacking Hirohito. Strange worldview.

Think of Hitler or Hirohito with an atom bomb and you get the idea. Saddam Hussein did everything he could to convince the world that he was building a nuclear weapon, and you blame the USA for believing him. One of the reasons why the USA invaded Iraq was to stop Saddam Hussein from massacring the Shiites and the Kurds, who were begging the USA to save them. The Kurds are alright, but why should the USA save the Shiites again when the damned Shiites started shooting at the US troops after they went into Iraq to save their worthless lives?

It is those "ancient rivalries" and Islam which is the problem all along, not the USA. Let's emulate multicultural Muslim Iraq and get a few "ancient rivalries" going in Australia through immigration and birth rate differentials. Great idea.

Getting back on topic. If government ministers can bestow citizenship, then government ministers can take it away. If any of you feel that removing citizenship from Muslim terrorists traitors is unfair on the poor terrorist traitors, then instead of a stupid racist referendum on making aborigines a special race, (which is going to go nowhere) let's have one on removing citizenship?

Put it to the people over the question of whether those who take up arms against their own country should have their citizenship removed? All we would need to do is to prevent from voting Poirot, Susieoncrack, DavidF, DavidG, Arjay, Onjab, James O'Neill, Plantagenet, David Hicks, Muslims, every ABC supporter, and every staff member, student, and graduate from every Humanities department of every university, and it would probably be the first unanimous referendum "yes" vote in history.

LGO,

"....Saddam Hussein did everything he could to convince the world that he was building a nuclear weapon, and you blame the USA for believing him...."

Get with it - you're still mired in the Bush admin's propagand-a-thon.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/the-lies-we-believed-and-still-believe-about-iraq/

"Our report found that in the two years after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, President George W. Bush and seven of his administration’s top officials made at least 935 false statements about the national security threat posed by Iraq. The carefully orchestrated campaign of untruths about Iraq’s alleged threat to US national security from its WMDs or links to al Qaeda (also specious) galvanized public opinion and led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses..."

"The so-called Coalition of the Willing was a face-saving artifice cobbled together after the UN Security Council failed to approve the US-instigated invasion, rendering it a violation of the UN Charter and thus “illegal.” Furthermore, “the intelligence” referred to by Perino proved to be anything but intelligent; indeed, it had been mostly manufactured by the administration in accordance with its political agenda..."

"...“at least 20 federal agencies, including the Defense Department and the Census Bureau, have made and distributed hundreds of television news segments between 2001 and 2005 . . . Many were subsequently broadcast on local stations across the country without any acknowledgement of the government’s role in their production.” David Walker, the then comptroller general of the Government Accountability Office, who happened to be a Republican, declared that such taxpayer-paid propaganda by the government is unethical and violates federal law...."

"....former press secretary Scott McClellan, wrote a “surprisingly scathing” memoir admitting that his own public comments at White House briefings about Iraq had been “badly misguided,” that President Bush had not been “open and forthright on Iraq,” and that instead he had relied on “propaganda....”

Back to topic - should "one minister" have the power to remove citizenship on a mere whim or suspicion? Remember Dutton's words:

"You don't need too much evidence. It's an administrative decision."

Good onya Poirot

Keep on nailing him mate. You're winning :)

Cheers

To Poirot.

Errr, no. I knew that Saddam Hussein said he was building a nuclear weapon because I saw him on TV holding up a nuclear triggering device with a "look what I have got!" smile on his face, while his generals sniggered behind him. If you ever got your head out of the Green Left Weekly, you might figure out what is really going on in the world.

Had you done so, you might have remembered that the UN officials charged with finding Hussein's WMD's were constantly frustrated by Hussein's thugs from investigating any leads they had. At one time, Australia's Richard Butler had an AK 47 stuck in his face when he tried to investigate a convoy of trucks that were fleeing a site that he and his team were informed by US intelligence was storing WMD's.

I repeat, Saddam Hussein tried his best to convince the world he was building a nuclear weapon, although you must have been sucking a bong at the time and was somewhere in Lotus Land when he was doing that. His games with the UN inspectors is a matter of public record. But hey, you are not going to let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Allied forces liberated Kuwait from Hussein's war of conquest. Kuwait was an independent country and a UN member. The USA then became mired in Southern Iraq trying to protect the rebelling Southern Shiites in Basra from Saddam Hussein's revenge. Civilians were trying to cross into the US zone every day for protection. That horrible USA which you have been conditioned to hate, set up no fly zones to prevent the Iraqi Air Force from bombing civilian areas. But the Americans wanted to go home. Had Saddam simply settled down and behaved himself, he would still be alive today and running a united Iraq.

Since reality does not fit your US hating theories, you will never give the yanks credit for anything. They are damned if the do, and damned if they don't.

LEGO,

"Errr, no. I knew that Saddam Hussein said he was building a nuclear weapon because I saw him on TV holding up a nuclear triggering device with a "look what I have got!" smile on his face, while his generals sniggered behind him...."

Well, there you have it!

It's a shame the UN didn't come to you before it undertook all that stuffing around on the ground in Iraq looking for WMDs.

"I repeat, Saddam Hussein tried his best to convince the world he was building a nuclear weapon..."

As above....

The Downing Street memo:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2005/jun/09/the-secret-way-to-war/

"Thanks to a formerly secret memorandum published by the London Sunday Times on May 1, during the run-up to the British elections, we now have a partial answer to that question. The memo, which records the minutes of a meeting of Prime Minister Tony Blair’s senior foreign policy and security officials...."

"....Whatever the Iraqis chose to do or not do, the President’s decision to go to war had long since been made."

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

Seen from today’s perspective this short paragraph is a strikingly clear template for the future, establishing these points:

1. By mid-July 2002, eight months before the war began, President Bush had decided to invade and occupy Iraq.

2. Bush had decided to “justify” the war “by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD.”

3. Already “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

4. Many at the top of the administration did not want to seek approval from the United Nations (going “the UN route”).

5. Few in Washington seemed much interested in the aftermath of the war."

Here's a clip of General Wesley Clark revealing plans to invade Iraq, only weeks after 9/11.

"We've made the decision to go to War in Iraq. This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YtF76s-yM

That's right, Poirot "There you have it." With my own eyes I saw Saddam Hussein holding aloft a critical component of a nuclear weapon, thereby breaking the peace agreement with the US made in 1990, which stipulated that he must destroy all of his WMD.

Britain is an independent country with a foreign policy often at odds with Washington, but even Britain under a socialist Labor government realised that Saddam Hussein was a threat to world peace.

Dismissing your points, one by one.

1. The Gulf War ended in 1990, and Saddam Hussein had 13 years to comply with the peace agreement imposed on him by the Americans. You see Poirot, when you win a war, you get to dictate terms, and the loser has to comply if he does not want the winner to take military action against him again. For 13 years Saddam Hussein did everything he could to violate the peace terms and annoy the Americans. He got around the blockade with the help of UN Secretary Kofi Annan's son who made a financial killing shipping Iraqi oil into Turkey using trucks. By your own quote, the yanks gave Saddam over 12 years to comply with their peace deal before they resumed military action.

2. Christian nations traditionally "justify" their reason to go to war. Saddam did it the old way. Just invade anybody you please and take over their country and pillage their resources.

3. Saddam Hussein was not complying with the peace deal. After 13 years of non compliance, the US used their military intelligence and what facts they knew to justify their decision to resume the war. How you see something wrong with that is beyond me.

4. The US did not seek the approval of the UN because the UN would never give their approval for a war. UN troops will stand in their bases and watch thousands being shot to death (Bosnia) or macheted to death (Rwanda) right in front of them, and do nothing.

5. Your last point is just a negative opinion.

Thanks LEGO,

Now who should I give more credence - you or the Downing Street "memo, which records the minutes of a meeting of Prime Minister Tony Blair’s senior foreign policy and security officials...."?

Again:

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

I saw Saddam holding up that 'thingy' too - and you say that establishes everything?

Lol!

We know that know, Poirot. Maybe not back then.

So, BTT. Clearly, whether suspected terrorists hold only Australian citizenship, or are dual citizens, due process has to be observed. Of course, they should be arrested on arrival back in Australia, remanded for trial, tried, and sentenced (unless they are conceivably innocent), presumably to very long sentences. The issue of citizenship can be put on the back-burner for a very long time.

OR: if they are dual citizens, then the option is surely always open - in the arrangements for dual citizenship between any two countries in the world - for the cancellation of that second privilege of citizenship. Surely it is always conditional and always revocable ?

In the event of long jail sentences, the problem arises that they may be in contact with other prisoners, and may radicalise them. So perhaps a new prison would have to be built, somewhere remote like Oodnadatta or Thargomindah, composed of individual cells isolated from each other.

Of course, the staff would have to be compensated for the isolation by having air-conditioned offices and accommodation, but budgets may not stretch to providing those privileges to prisoners.

Once they have done their time, then perhaps the issue of citizenship could come up. But perhaps it's a bit premature now. Unless of course, the discussion turns on barring dual citizens from actually re-entering Australia. That might save a huge amount of money and strife.

Joe

WAKE UP. Globalisation/New World Order - One (totalitarian/extreme facsism/Communist)World Government - false flags using Muslims against West. Lies and propaganda. Corporations are them. Murdoch. Corporations against small industry, against the people. They killed Kennedy for his speech, trying to break the power of the Federal Reserve (Rothschilds), and to stop Israel from going nuclear.

They killed anti new world order film maker, David Crowley and his family. They have killed many.

The satanic Talmud (the real Judaic bible), The Protocols of Zion.

Loudmouth - you dodged when I queried the Talmud - are you still a Marxist?

http://zioncrimefactory.com/

http://iamthewitness.com/

Dialectics
Communist Instrument for World Conquest (posing as Corporations)

http://www.alor.org/Library/Butler%20ED%20-%20Dialectics.htm

http://www.threeworldwars.com/protocols.htm

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-Newspaper-Publishers-Association_19610427.aspx

President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City
April 27, 1961

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen:

I appreciate very much your generous invitation to be here tonight.

You bear heavy responsibilities these days and an article I read some time ago reminded me of how particularly heavily the burdens of present day events bear upon your profession.

You may remember that in 1851 the New York Herald Tribune under the sponsorship and publishing of Horace Greeley, employed as its London correspondent an obscure journalist by the name of Karl Marx.

We are told that foreign correspondent Marx, stone broke, and with a family ill and undernourished, constantly appealed to Greeley and managing editor Charles Dana for an increase in his munificent salary of $5 per installment, a salary which he and Engels ungratefully labeled as the "lousiest petty bourgeois cheating."

But when all his financial appeals were refused, Marx looked around for other means of livelihood and fame, eventually terminating his relationship with the Tribune and devoting his talents full time to the cause that would bequeath the world the seeds of Leninism, Stalinism, revolution and the cold war.

Cont....

..Cont

If only this capitalistic New York newspaper had treated him more kindly; if only Marx had remained a foreign correspondent, history might have been different. And I hope all publishers will bear this lesson in mind the next time they receive a poverty-stricken appeal for a small increase in the expense account from an obscure newspaper man.

I have selected as the title of my remarks tonight "The President and the Press." Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded "The President Versus the Press." But those are not my sentiments tonight.

It is true, however, that when a well-known diplomat from another country demanded recently that our State Department repudiate certain newspaper attacks on his colleague it was unnecessary for us to reply that this Administration was not responsible for the press, for the press had already made it clear that it was not responsible for this Administration.

Nevertheless, my purpose here tonight is not to deliver the usual assault on the so-called one party press. On the contrary, in recent months I have rarely heard any complaints about political bias in the press except from a few Republicans. Nor is it my purpose tonight to discuss or defend the televising of Presidential press conferences. I think it is highly beneficial to have some 20,000,000 Americans regularly sit in on these conferences to observe, if I may say so, the incisive, the intelligent and the courteous qualities displayed by your Washington correspondents.

Cont..

..Cont

Nor, finally, are these remarks intended to examine the proper degree of privacy which the press should allow to any President and his family.

If in the last few months your White House reporters and photographers have been attending church services with regularity, that has surely done them no harm.

On the other hand, I realize that your staff and wire service photographers may be complaining that they do not enjoy the same green privileges at the local golf courses that they once did.

It is true that my predecessor did not object as I do to pictures of one's golfing skill in action. But neither on the other hand did he ever bean a Secret Service man.

My topic tonight is a more sober one of concern to publishers as well as editors.

I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes may be for the future--for reducing this threat or living with it--there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its challenge to our survival and to our security--a challenge that confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity.

This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President--two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.

This was JFK's intro to his speech at the Astoria Hotel in 1961 - please, please hear it.

JFK Secret Societies Speech (full version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdMbmdFOvTs

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-Newspaper-Publishers-Association_19610427.aspx

The Constitution - Marx
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=350&cat=satire

Ron Paul wants to audit the Federal Reserve
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=324&cat=satire

The Anglo/Zion alliance is an industrial military complex takeover bent on destroying civilisations. Wars that could have been avoided. They are war mongers and use ANZACS as human sacrifices.

They stole Gadaffi's huge treasure of gold and he wanted to stop using the US dollar: Libya was a well functioning country:
http://www.deesillustration.com/artwork.asp?item=1210&cat=satire

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO303B.html

Carrol Quigley’s (he was an insider to secret societies) book, Tragedy and Hope, which has been suppressed by the controlled press.

About the Military Industrial Complex that we are part of:
http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Hope-History-World-Time/dp/094500110X

By A Customer on April 19, 1999
Format: Hardcover
I have read this book three times! It never ceases to surprise me. Quigley traces the evolution of the Establishment in the 20 century via his access to restricted documents in several countries including the USA. He mentions the roles played by foreign policy think-tanks such as the Council on Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute of International Affairs influence in shaping the respective policies of these countries ie:USA and UK and their failures such as the Great Depression, appeasement of Hitler, their successes such as the domination of the executive government of USA, the foundation of the UN by using socialists and communist spies like Alger Hiss - Machiavelli at work- Here, he elaborates that the Elite seeks a Globalist Government divided along regional lines. More over Quigley sees the Elite as a Clear and Present Danger to Americans and the world at large , this propels him to write the book in question. A more systematic reference can also be found by reading the Bertram Gross' Friendly Fascism which corroborates Quigley's view on the Elite's need for a Globalist government via International Institutions and Agencies like UN, IMF, World bank etc.For information is available even as we apeak from THE COMMISSION ON GLOBAL GOVERNANCE at [...] and the growth industry of GLOBALIST ISSUES.Read also in tamden with Foundations:their power and influence by rene wormser and a series of monographs by sociologist G. William Domhoff to further corroborate Quigley's view of the 20th Century. - to the tragedy, we are the hope."

Constance, I'm afraid I am totally missing your point. What has all that got to do with revoking dual citizenship of known terrorists who want to re-enter Australia?

Perhaps you should start a new thread with an introduction that explains your position and hopefully some realistic actions we might take to avoid being eliminated by the Evil Empire.

To Poirot

You said yourself that you saw the same scene on TV that I did.

I would suggest that your best course of action in any dispute of any kind. would be to believe the evidence of your own eyes before you trust any other source.

Your "Downing Street memo" has no significance to me. The US wanted Hussein gone because he was an unacceptable threat to world peace, and he simply refused to abide by the peace conditions imposed upon him in 1990. Britain under a socialist Labor government agreed with the Americans.

Please get back on topic.

Once again, the world is coming down on the head of Tony Abbot for simply proposing a course of action in a cabinet meeting where various actions were being considered. His proposal to strip dual nationals of citizenship if caught fighting for terrorists is eminently sensible and only a problem because the Citizenship Act of 1947 stipulates that such action can be taken "automatically", only when a person is fighting for a "country" at war with Australia. It is a tiny distinction but one which a lawyer can drive a bus through.

Instead of reflexively complaining about it simply because this sensible proposal came from Tony Abbot. Why don't you protect yourself, and protect your own people, and stick it to the terrorists that people like yourself imported into Australia, by supporting Abbot's proposal? Help to mend the damage that you and your friends have inflicted on Australia through your support of multiculturalism.

Hippie,

The topic is terrorism. Terrorism is terrorism. What's the use of talking about dual citizenship when we do not even know who the REAL TERRORISTS are. Do you understand anything I've posted? Do you know what a Zionist is? Do you know what ethnic group created and dominated Communism? Marx? The Bolsheviks? Who killed several Russian monarchies and up to 140 million people - not mentioning Poland, Germany, many horrors in many countries. Do you know who controls Hollywood? The media?

Do you know the ethnic background of the NEOCONS? Do you know that the US taxpayers support Israel economy, defense etc?

It's difficult for me to start a new discussion, as I have limited access to PC. So I would be slow with responses.

Note, no response from Loudmouth - Joe Lane (Marxist or ex Marxist)- has low regard for Christianity, coincidentally. Their covert war with Christianity and the West.