Sorry, Onjab, I should have been more explicit, i.e.

"We come back to it: What values are we opposing ? What values do we support ? .....

" .... we need the courage to condemn brutality, murder and destruction where it takes place, i.e. now, today, in 2015. We must oppose always a culture of death and destruction, of barbarism and brutality, no matter what book its adherents may resort to justify their vileness."

I certainly don't expect that the cares of the world will lessen in my lifetime, that's not the issue, Onbaj: in fact, something like the obverse. i.e. that we are currently faced with a very powerful and vile set of forces, which is exploiting the grievances and difficulties which have arisen in the last couple of centuries between one very powerful (but, in my view, backward) ideology/religion and another imperfect but dynamic one.

And I suspect it is that dynamism which is pissing off so many in the socially-stagnant parts of the world, fearful of being left behind.

In other words, the current struggle is a very big deal, from which sweetness and light are not guaranteed outcomes. In fact, neither is success for 'our' side.

Between them, these ideologies - 'ours' and 'theirs' - can claim a combined four billion or more people, so we are not witnessing some temporary perturbation, in a remote part of the world.

This is a fight to the death, Onbaj, between two fundamentally different sets of values. So what are yours ? What do you stand for ? What slogan would you call out if you were in front of a firing squad ? I firmly believe that you too have values, strictures and parables that you would be vitally concerned to pass on to your grandchildren, isn't that so ?

So, how do those values differ from those of the butchers and rapists adhering to the unnamed religion ? What 'values' do you find utterly repugnant, and relevant to the current situation ?

No fudging now :)

Joe

Joe thank you for your post, it does make sense, I personally do not like religion at all, so the antics of Isis to control the world through their ideologies is definately wrong at the same time I do not like the USA Government and there moving by stealth to also control the world, antagonism to me is no better than religion, the next war hopefully will get rid of all of us, we do not know how to live in peace and do not deserve to be here at all, poverty abounds in the world, disadvantaged people fleeing by boat, nobody wants them, no jobs for anyone any where, we all have a right to this world, it does not belong to anyone, only man made countries separate us all with their control through religion or wealth.
Joe like yourself I will never see a world where all are accepted, it is too late, but perhaps if wars do not destroy us then peace for all surely will eventuate somewhere in the future when people learn to accept and help each other instead of always wanting to kill each other for their own personal gain, to control all by some means

Obnaj,

What is striking about the current situation in the unnamed part of the world in question is the utter powerlessness of the Yanks. The current situation to our north-west has nothing tov do with the Yanks. They can do nothing about it They are not a player, strange as it way seem to those of us who take for granted that the Yanks are all-powerful, all-masterful, even if all-evil. No, they don't have a chook in this fight, much as they would like too. It's just far too complicated for them, as it is for every other outsider.

Did they start it all ? No, I don't think so, it's a struggle that's been brewing for certainly a century, basically between two civilizations, two world-outlooks, two (at least) ideologies, which are quite incompatible with each other, root and branch.

So what do we do about it, if anything ? Surely, clarify what we stand for, you and me and everybody: what are the values and aspirations that we base our stance on ?

Surely equality and freedom of expression ? Surely the importance of rational and evidence-based discussion ? Surely the impartial rule of law ? I'm not saying that those have been attained anywhere, just that they are the aims and aspirations of the Enlightenment, however imperfect and unfinished they may be.

Soon we may have to make choices: dogma or discussion, equality or obedience, progress or stagnation. This is a vital struggle over such values.

Joe

Apparently ISIS
did not realise that ISIS is the name
of an Egyptian Godess.
ISIS is therefore the name
of a very powerful
female.

The joke would appear to be on ISIS
For choosing this name

Islam equals hatred and violence, and it will never change because, to Muslims, Muhammed was the last prophet and the 'perfect' man - a perfect model for all true Muslims to follow. Only the idiot Left and Australian politicians don 't seem to know the truth about Islam.

Dear Ttbn,

The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not an idiot - he was a saint and all the violent and obscene stories about him in the Koran and Hadith were fabricated over a century later by evil blood-thirsty Arab politicians. The one's who are most confused about him are the Muslims - had they only knew anything about the real Muhammad, the man of peace!