Hi Killarney, you were the one that raised the issue of a failure of 46% of women to have orgasm and blamed males. I merely suggested it could be more complex than your suggestion that men were somehow at fault - "...men are spectacularly failing women in the sack, but rather than learn a bit about REAL female sexuality and anatomy, it seems men would rather bully, threaten and shame women into giving men more".

If you'd read the article I linked to it suggested that orgasm is that intercourse can be quite enjoyable without orgasm, and that a number of people enjoy the experience without climaxing. It also gives a variety of reasons why climax may not happen.

Kay Stroud writes; "......we each have an inherent spiritual strength to enable us to shut that laptop down when we need to."
Her assertion is utter twaddle of course. Is our "spiritual strength" the only guide to when our need arises and/or the only kind of strength capable of ensuring that the carnal need can be subsumed in a divine euphoria? Not only do I function normally without an atom of spirituality, I insist that as a responsible adult who has achieved most of the admired goals in society, that I am well capable of self responsibility and am indebted to no one for that characteristic. This not a boast but a correction of Stroud's smug presumption that she speaks for me, that everyone is too weak to be responsible unless their intellectual realms are enshrouded in her impenetrable spiritual fog.

Ms Stroud, like thousands of evangelistic believers before her, reveals a prurient pre-occupation with sex archaic in its precepts and infantile in its presumptions. Humankind is no less inclined to regular, if not constant, sexual activity than any other genus in the Animal Kingdom. Natural processes, like that of evolution, ensured we were well endowed with its urges and practical usage. Life, as a force in nature, is little understood but it is a fundamental of lfe that, through sex, it prevails and procreates. Pornography is a feature of a sexual humanity and our pre-occupation with this is a fundamental element of who we are.....a primate generously endowed with the ability to think creatively and by doing so can begin to understand ourselves and to ply ourselves with worrisome questions. As a prescient poster pointed out previously....."there is no pornography in nature" but I would add that this is so except for the human genus Homo. To claim we cannot be healthy and happy unless pornography is eradicated is no more true than claiming humans cannot appreciate beauty, innocence or justice without allowing that such appreciation emanates from a spiritual or supernatural source. Ergo and ipso facto such fantasy is religious balderdash.

Balderdash, there's a word we haven't seen/heard since the turn of the Century, Pogi.

What aspect off pornography are you defending? There is as wide a range of pornography as there is human nature. Humans unlike the animals can be extreme, they can be saintly or completely evil and everything in-between.

Unfortunately the demand for porno has created a market with no moral limitations. For those sick minds that desire to see rapes, humiliation, torture, child abuse, even murder, it's all there.

One doesn't need to be spiritual to see that extreme pornography is potentially dangerous and mind polluting.

Where do you draw the line Pogi? And if you do draw a line, on what grounds? Why is your line more appropriate than someone else's based on spiritual reasons.

Pogi is correct on several counts:

One CAN function normally without spirituality.
Whether "normal" functioning is desirable is a different question.

Rather than a spiritual motivation to shut that laptop down, one could have another, competing, material motivation, such as achieving most of the admired goals in society.
Whether the desire for admiration (or in the least, social recognition) is desirable is a different question.

Yes, Pornography is a feature of a sexual humanity and humans are indeed a primate generously endowed with the ability to think creatively.

However, Pogi believes that "our pre-occupation with this is a fundamental element of who we are".

Our pre-occupation with pornography AND with achieving the admired goals in society AND with several other human behaviours, has nothing to do with who we truly are - it has everything to do with our false identification with the human organism.

The problem with pornography is not its inhumanity, but its tendency to keep us attached to the human existence, or even more generally to material existence. Pornography, however, is far from being the only weakness which keeps us so attached.

Aspects of materialism can compete over one's psyche, but only spirituality takes us out of this swamp of materialism altogether.

yuyutsu, " Aspects of materialism can compete over one's psyche, but only spirituality takes us out of this swamp of materialism altogether."

Gee Yuyutsu, I don't know whether the Pope and all the rest of the Catholic crowd living at the Vatican are supposed to be 'spiritual' or not, but they sure seem to be materialistic!
Have you seen all the wealthy trinkets and property that church owns?

I wouldn't call anyone's propensity for watching pornography materialistic in any case.
I would call it sick in many instances....

Dear Suse,

I think that the current pope is less materialistic than the average one and the average cardinals. As for the others at the Vatican, you may well be right: yes, they are "supposed" to be spiritual, but historically they were often not up to it.

Regarding the propensity to watch pornography, 'sick' and 'materialistic' are not mutually exclusive, in fact they go well together.