The nanny state is alive and prospering.

Don't be alone, because you're not allowed to defend yourself. If you do, you'll be subject to every criminal sanction.

You can't have anything that you can use to gain he upper hand over an assailant, only the police can be trusted to use them correctly.

The trouble with all this is, when seconds count, the police are minutes away......

Why is the catch phrase always violence against women
It's 2015 Let's try violence against ... ANYONE
Would hate to see anyone making sexist comments
But it's not going to stop while we chase the American Dream or our corrupt pollies do, Look at the Social problem that place has got.
Only way to fix these problems is to take a step backwards Lets use modern ways to get back to Family basic's, Only then can we start to see some improvement in our ever growing Social issues, Not just slap another band-aid on and hope for the best

This author has an interest in crime fiction and horror. Could it be that she has a distorted reaction to real life crime and horror? It is often said that boys who play violent video games turn into violent men. Could it be that people who are interested in horror begin to see horror everywhere and lose perspective? Why are people interested in horror? Is it because they have some control over it when it is fictionalised – they can turn off the tv or close the book. In real life you cannot have control like that. Perhaps she is looking for a control that can never be and she needs to come to terms with that rather than resorting to a fictional world.

It is very sad, but we now live in an increasingly violent world, and we have all adjusted our behaviour accordingly.
As parents we will be protecting our children, young and old, by imploring them to be off the streets by dark, unless they are in a group for safety.
We will pick them up from late night parties etc, rather than have them walk home.

There is no way I would be telling my children (or anyone else!) to 'reclaim the night' and go off walking alone. Those days are gone.

Phanto,
It's often said that violent media causes people to be violent but every study ever done on the subject shows it to be an untrue statement.
The author takes a balanced and sensible approach, what we can learn from the tragedy is that our young people's safety in public has to be a mix of law enforcement and education on personal safety.
What's obvious is that the men who commit these crimes are actually monsters, they're not everyday men so society wide education campaigns targeting all men are a waste of time, 96% of us are never violent and the minority who are criminals won't listen anyway.
The alleged offender in this case appears to have been a very disturbed individual who had been confined to a psychiatric hospital in his late teens, he's the typical random attacker, the lone nut, the mad dog and no amount of education will change that type of person.
The manufactured outrage of the the detective's sensible advice came from the usual suspects, Feminists immediately began pushing their own agenda ignoring the fact that a dangerous offender was on the run who was likely to and ultimately did strike again.
When you have a mad dog on the loose it's a good idea to be more careful until he's caught, then you can go back to your routine.

Suse,
I don't know that it's getting worse, the streets are much safer now than they were in decades past, everyone has a mobile phone, CCTV is ubiquitous and Police now have access to their databases at all times including in their patrol cars. Masa's killer was apprehended quickly due to his image being captured on CCTV but not before he'd committed several other violent crimes, in years past he might have continued his spree for many more days or weeks and who knows what depraved acts he may have indulged in?
My daughters are 16 and 12 and I'm constantly on their case about personal security and being aware of their surroundings, the headphone thing has been a feature of those discussion on many occasions.
We're raising girls to be adults, adults take responsibility for their own safety, of course we can't say don't go here, don't go there but we can teach our kids to think tactically and conduct risk assessments before taking a particular course of action.
We need to empower them to ask "Is this shortcut worth the risk?" "If I enter this space do I have an escape route if something goes wrong?" "I'm going to go here, should I let someone know my plans?".
It's simple stuff, when I go onto a building site I have to conduct a risk assessment for OHS and over the years it's just something you get into the habit of doing.

When the social norms change other things must change! And a women should be able to walk alone and unmolested! I don't know why this kid was stabbed in the back by a craven coward?

And a cautionary lesson against the widespread use of earplugs!

I find it hard to disagree with mild colonial on this matter!

And proof positive that you don't need a gun to murder.

In fact most murders occur within the home and with the ubiquitous Wiltshire self sharping knife?

I wonder if this story could have had a less tragic ending, if say the female runner hadn't be using ear plugs and was able to run backwards nearly as well as she ran forward?

Something we were once taught during military training; and if she had a small 25 calibre pistol on her person; and the gumption to use it, with the result the knife wielding crim the only one hurt and needing treatment or cremation.

And if the magazine were loaded with the first two rounds being nonlethal bean bag ammunition, would that satisfy those who both abhor guns and are at least partly responsible for the fact that this kid was alone and unarmed; and therefore the target of choice for a mindless killer.

As for the masturbater? What would have been the outcome if the offended party pulled a pistol and ordered it put away and the offending party out at the next stop; or risk losing the offending member!

Yes, those who choose this option would need to pass intensive police and health checks, and then be subject to (unless ex-police/ex-military) military style weapons training, to not just shoot straight, but thoroughly identify the target before squeezing the trigger.

We really do need to rethink self defense as a acceptable option for owning a small calibre pistol! But particularly for our most vulnerable!

It's just not acceptable that most of the citizens with this option, remain the worst criminal types in a very different society!

And demonstrably, you just don't need a gun to snuff out an innocent young life!
Rhrosty.

Suse,

We do the best for our children's safety if we teach them to use weapons, improvised weapons and unarmed combat.
All of my children have been so taught and have now become highly trained, so much so that I can no longer beat any of them even using the low down tricks that the Australian Government paid for me to learn.

One son was stabbed in an Irish pub by a random attacker, said attacker went to hospital for a couple of weeks. The son ignored the knife that was in his side and hit back with effect; the wound was not serious.

One daughter was in the police and now does security and defence training for a private organization. She is the smallest of the brood being 5 foot nothing with her shoes on, (she also throws herself out of perfectly good 'planes for 'fun').

None of them have ever been in any trouble with the law and all are fairly prosperous.

Teach them to be street smart and to fight when it's necessary and to realize that there is no such thing as a fair fight if one is unlawfully attacked.

Everybody can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, female , male and children it makes no difference to what may happen, the people on board the plane that has just crashed, all boarded at the wrong time, they did not know their fate was sealed as they entered the plane.
Masturbation to occur by males would take more than looking at a pretty face, we are not born to do just that, there has to be stimulus such as a porn movie etc, do all women perform sex acts on a plane as reported recently in the press, they do not, we must remember that we all can be offended by such acts or laugh the matter off as some twisted individual trying to turn people on by such acts, which normally does not.
Yes! We all can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, to be shot at, raped, killed, masturbated at, dildo banging or whatever, it is the luck of the draw at the time.

Ojnab,

"....Masturbation to occur by males would take more than looking at a pretty face, we are not born to do just that, there has to be stimulus such as a porn movie etc,...."
A bit far from reality, the desire to give offence may be stimulus enough.
There was an outbreak of public masturbation on Sydney trains after the mental hospitals were closed in the 1960s (whenever?), I was travelling to Bankstown, sitting in the end of a carriage that had side seats, when a character started 'beating the meat' to the consternation of several women passengers, when I stood up and asked him if he'd like a kick to the appendages below he desisted and left the carriage.

These days I'd probably be prosecuted for denying him his individual right of free expression.

the 'freedom ' for the general community to feed on porn has certainly made the streets a lot more dangerous especially for females. Exercising ones rights might be good in theory but excercising one's commonsense would be a lot wiser. Some immigration hotspots certainly don't think that 'meat' should be on display. Still females are a lot safer than places like India or Pakistan.

Is Mise so all men are masturbating all over the place, c'mon grow up, isolated cases ,yes, are all women doing sex acts on planes, perhaps they are, but I have not been on a plane when this has happened, hope to see all men masturbating when I next visit any city, can't help themselves, if you are a man you must be in the oversexed brigade and happy to pull it out anywhere, if you are a woman perhaps you had your dress showing your fanny, but I forgot we can dress how we
like, can' we, tits showing but men must not have their fly open, or displaying their weapon, women are a joke in more ways than one.

Ojnab,

"Is Mise so all men are masturbating all over the place, c'mon grow up, isolated cases ,yes,...."

I thought that it would be apparent that I was speaking of isolated cases; all men are not masturbating exhibitionists even if a tiny minority of them are Conspiracy Theorists.

Is Mise, Perhaps Ojnab is one of those serial offenders, given to beating the meat in public places and or aroused beyond control by the sight of a bare female ankle?

In any event, a good kick in the proverbial is often enough to kill all immediate passion, as does an electric fence when you're a tad slow throwing the other leg over. Albeit, it does tend to make the hair longer and straighter!

One notes, as do other posters, that this practice on trains and such, really didn't become prominent until the asylums were closed down?

Now there are occasions where a person may have taken one or two drinks too many, and chooses public transport over the car?

And while getting plastered may have taken to the piano in the public bar, where the pleased and entertained patrons may have plied him with drinks to keep the music and the singalong going.

In any event, when that much liquid is imbibed, at some point in the evening, it must also be released; and on one particular occasion, saw the weaving pianist return in a state of "undress".

Anyway, one dear old soul, who felt he may be in danger of acute embarrassment, (if he could ever find it) finally sidled up to him and inquired, Mr piano man, do you know your fly's open?

Whereupon the gallant pianist replied, no madam, but if you could hum a few bars, I'll try and play it.
Rhrosty.

Ah, c'mon, Ms Tsitas!

Why do we women keep supporting this fiction that we can be free and independent persons despite the fact that we can't venture two blocks alone without the threat of homicidal or non-homicidal rape?

It's interesting that you use 'terrorism' as an analogy - whether by accident or design. Yet, rape and sexual assault - especially by strangers - has been targeted by many feminist writers (particularly Susan Browniller) as gender-political terrorism, designed to keep all women in a state of fear and forcing them to defer to men for their personal protection.

This latest terrorist crime against a lone woman walking to somewhere or other pursuing her own business will all blow over and the media will move on to other things. However, women will be sufficiently terrorised by the story to feel sufficiently vulnerable and surrender sufficiently more of their independence and mobility to male protection in order to feel safe.

That's the way of the patriarchy. Always was. Always will be.

Ojnab

This masturbating-man on public transport thing has happened to me twice (and much worse). I won't go into the details. However, according to accounts by my female friends and acquaintances, it's VERY common.

So far, I haven't encountered a case of a man confronted by a woman masturbating on public transport.

Anyone care to offer a man-friendly reason why this is so?

Killarney,

"So far, I haven't encountered a case of a man confronted by a woman masturbating on public transport."

I don't doubt that it does not happen, but if it did there is little chance of it being reported.

I and many other men are all in favour of women being allowed to carry some means of effective self protection.

'So far, I haven't encountered a case of a man confronted by a woman masturbating on public transport. '

apparently some men were confronted with a woman 'masturbating' on plane trip a week or so ago.

Killarney,

Perhaps you might only find men confronting but it is not unusual for women to masturbate in public places and even work. Women have written articles on how to do it unobtrusively. Unlike men, women have intimate discussions about sex all of the time and the women's sections of the media are full of it. So it would be a subject you have missed out on. You should get out more?

The gender war is old hat, last Millenium. However the gender war is still a jolly good earner for some educated middle class women, a wagon to ride.

Killarney,
Susan Brownmiller would say that wouldn't she.
Men who assault women in this way are such rare birds that the community really does react with shock and outrage when they appear, the full extent of Adrian Bayley's offending has today been revealed;
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/adrian-bayleys-reign-of-terror-how-the-system-failed-us-20150326-1m6aj3.html
This is not a gender issue, men who rape and kill women are deviants, the way they think and act has nothing to do with masculinity and sets them completely apart from other men.
A family member was a prison officer for many years, at one point she was working on the unit where Peter Dupas was housed, she said he was a total outsider and that he couldn't relate to the other male prisoners, even though they were some of the most violent men in the system.
These are "un-men" and sadly they are the ones who commit most of the violent crime against women, the average number of victims for a rapist is around 10 and this tiny element of society also commit the majority of other violent crime as well.
Thankfully there are at most only a few hundred such men in Victoria and the police have about a 90% clearance rate of rape cases, as soon as they are detected these men are locked up, the problem is that they get out again and the recidivism rate is as high as 40%.

OTB

If the 'gender war is old hat', why do gender threads on online forums attract so many comments? Why does feminism arouse so much hostility and bigotry? Why do so many groups and individuals spend so much time spreading disinformation about feminism?

The so-called gender war will only become 'old hat' when the power imbalance between the genders finally reaches something resembling equality.

Jay

Rapists are not all that rare and rape culture is all-pervasive. In war, a lot of nice law-abiding men commit war rape. Also, studies have found that a substantial percentage of men admit that they would rape if they were certain they would get away with it.

And whether or not rapists are just a tiny minority of disturbed men, ALL women are terrorised by it. I doubt very much if there is a woman anywhere who has not experienced a rape or near-rape experience.

Killarney,
Feminism provokes such hostility because it's a pack of lies, didn't Susan Brownmiller and Betty Friedan recant in the end? Betty Friedan actually apologised for setting the sexes against one another didn't she?
Rape is not about power, rape is not tolerated by normal men and if not for the intervention of the state rapists today would still be hunted down by the male relatives and friends of the victim and put to death like they were in the past. When was the death penalty for rape abolished in the U.S? If I'm not mistaken it was still applied in some states into the 1970's.
A rapist is the exact opposite of a man, he's the "un-man", the "anti-man".

Jay

'Feminism provokes such hostility because it's a pack of lies ...'

No. Feminism provokes hostility because it speaks the truth - about how power is distributed across the genders. Many men and male-identified women hate feminism because they believe it's men who are personally under attack, not a political system that is being criticised and challenged.

Rape and women's fear of it are among the many tools of a system that needs to keep women under men's control and to restrict women's lives as much as possible.

Killarney,

Here you go, men are obsolete. Or at least have been well and truly routed and are on the slide downwards. So after all of those decades of life wasted moaning, whining and blaming men you can now be responsible for your own choices and outcomes.

http://time.com/179/men-are-obsolete/

Killarney,
Where is your scenario true? Afghanistan? Mali? Sierra Leone?
Psychologist Don Symons defeated the thesis of "Against Our Will" aeons ago, the majority of rapists are powerless men, some are simply mentally disturbed sadists but in the main they are men who are unable to relate to women or whose lives are dominated by women. Men who are outsiders, who are low down the social pecking order, who have few male friends and are bullied by other males and those who are shy or have an unattractive physique are your typical rapists. These men seek to control their interactions with women with the object being short term sexual gratification and the release of frustration or social anxiety, in their minds they can never gain a woman's consent so they take by force or deception. This is why so many of these breast fondlers,train masturbators and flashers seem to be from the sub-continent, these are lowly men who see no hope of ever having normal relations with a woman, they're not power mad beasts looking to dominate a whole gender.

Jay,

"This is why so many of these breast fondlers,train masturbators and flashers seem to be from the sub-continent,"

Could we please have a reference?

I don’t think violence against women is any worse than it has been through history. If anything it has reduced but not necessarily for the right reasons.

What has increased is the sensationalisation of this violence by the media and there is so much media. Women were murdered in the past and there would be a story in the newspaper about it but it would be kept in perspective. Media reported the story – they did not go on to create a story.

If someone was murdered or died in an accident it affected only the close friends and family of the victim. Now we have the ubiquitous ‘outpouring of grief’ that media outlets call whenever they smell a lot of sales of their product. Everyone becomes touched, marches and rallies are held, thousands of dollars are wasted at the florist, social media goes into melt down, funerals are televised and so on. What used to be a regrettable occasion of crime now becomes a circus and all sense of proportion goes out the window.

Things are not worse and there is no need for anymore caution than existed in the past. We should live our lives in response to reality and not the world as it is painted by unprincipled media outlets.

Is mise;
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/obscene-act-police-hunt-man-who-exposed-himself-to-two-women-in-library/story-fni0fee2-1227148281343

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teenage-girls-capture-alleged-sexual-assault-offender-on-camera-20140710-zt21u.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/man-jailed-for-van-rape-20100825-13r97.html
Sites like Stormfront and VNN have extensive sub fora dedicated to collecting mainstream news stories of this nature, but I don't expect people to lower themselves to reading the comments on such sites.

You might actually be better off making some study of men in Third World countries and poor men generally, rape is not a crime of power projection but it is predominantly a crime of the powereless, the frustrated and the downtrodden.

I agree phanto, that there is less violence against women than in the past, when it was not a news item. Perhaps the huge growth on female with journalist qualifications, has an effect on such reporting. I do believe less frequented public places have however become more dangerous.

However when it comes to our author, I will be much more inclined to pay attention when I see the same concern for men murdered by their womenfolk, or her denunciation of women who cut off men's penises while they sleep.

Jay,

That's very good, so many of these offenders are from the sub continent, yet for some reason you only give one reference to someone proven to be an Indian, and his lawyer pleads that "....he would be only one of two Victorian prisoners from the Punjab region."
Not many Indians in the local prison system; one supposes that his lawyer also checked for Hindi speakers;and this was five(5) years ago.

The other two are said to be of Indian appearance.
What does that mean, does it mean that their bone structure is not the same as Europeans and people from the Near and Middle East?

How to tell without supporting evidence?

"Sites like Stormfront and VNN have extensive sub fora dedicated to collecting mainstream news stories of this nature, but I don't expect people to lower themselves to reading the comments on such sites."

How do you know if you don't read them?

Author, "In Melbourne the murder of Doncaster schoolgirl Masa Vukotic, 17, has caused the media and the public to question whether women can ever exist safely in society"

What about Daniel Morcombe?

www.danielmorcombe.com.au

Is Mise,
Do your own legwork, go looking for reports of Indian sex offenders and you'll find them, I don't have to prove anything because it's common knowledge.
Is there or is there not a chronic problem with sexual abuse of women in India? Australia has a problem with Indian sex offenders too and
if you want I can sit here posting links until I use up my post limit:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/taxi-driver-jailed-for-raping-drunk-and-drugged-17yearold-student/story-fni0fee2-1226777177635

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-23/man-jailed-over-27palm-reading27-assaults-on-vline-trains/5544688

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/jail-for-rapist-gp-who-took-photographs-during-assaults-20101116-17wme.html

http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/police-hunt-for-man-after-he-ejaculated-on-womans-back-at-st-kilda-festival/story-fnj4aog3-1227221123275

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2948694/A-mother-tricked-having-sex-Indian-man-met-online-pretended-blonde-beefcake-called-Jamie-kids-slept-door.html#ixzz3RRbWeVmC

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-accused-of-assaulting-sydney-women-and-trying-to-kidnap-them-fronts-court-20141102-11fphv.html

The whole idea of an epidemic of violence against women is a absolute fabrication. If you don't believe me, read in detail the Australian Institute of Criminology's report just released, "Homicides in Australia: 2010–11 to 2011–12: National Homicide
Monitoring Program report".

• Female victimisation reached an historic low and
remained stable across 2010–11 (n=90) and
2011–12 (n=92), with a rate of 0.8 per 100,000.

38% of domestic homicide victims were male and 24% of intimate partner killings were male (overwhelmingly by a female perpetrator). Read the report.

Full report is found at:
http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/23/mr23.pdf

This is the government's own report and the leading authority on homicide statistics in Australia. Not only that, but domestic homicides as a proportion of total homicides have steadily declined over the last 25 years.

A female is indeed killed every 7 days in domestic homicides. That's true. And a male is killed every 10 days in domestic homicides. It's all bad stuff and we need better crime prevention. But please respond to facts not propaganda!

Rogindon,
Yes the "War On Women is an exaggeration, we can't trust the media and feminist academics to report honestly on anyy matter at all however Killarney made some very specific, very dangerous claims based on a discredited Feminist manifesto from 1971.
Rape and violence against women generally are not crimes of power projection by one gender over another, they are routinely revealed as crimes committed by powerless men against defenceless women.
Envy, frustration, despair and feelings of worthlessness, inadequacy and insecurity motivate many such men, the historical stories of American killers Edmund Kemper and Harvey Glatman and Englishman Fred West are revealing in that regard, as is the case of Peter Dupas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vq0gyPr4MI
These are the real misogynists and they're thankfully very rare creatures.

Oh, dear. So many hostile comments. So little time!

Jay

You seem to be missing your own point. Of course, powerless men attack women in a sexually degrading manner. That’s exactly the point I am making and what Susan Brownmiller and many other feminists have made. Disturbed men commit rape to assert their power in a society that has deprived them of power – by attacking and degrading those lower than them in the food chain, i.e. women.

Though committed by disturbed men, rape and sexual assault are still gender political crimes.

You also ignore the point I made about rape in war. Ordinary, nice men commit war rape because it provides them with an impunity not available in peace time. But that’s almost never acknowledged. How could our boys fighting for our freedom be anything other than heroic and glorious? War rape is only recognised when our enemies do it – and even then, it’s often covered up for political reasons, e.g. Soviet war rape at the end of WWII, Japanese ‘comfort women’, the Nazi ‘Joy Division’ etc.

phantom

‘I don’t think violence against women is any worse than it has been through history.’

Well … no. But aren’t you validating my point? Violence, particularly sexual violence, against women is endemic to the patriarchal society that we have lived in for many, many centuries.

Hasbeen

‘… there is less violence against women than in the past, when it was not a news item. Perhaps the huge growth on female with journalist qualifications has an effect on such reporting.’

There is no way of telling whether violence against women is less than in the past. More likely, it’s just being reported more. And you are totally correct in saying that this is a product of more women with journalist qualifications.

In the past, women were excluded from most professions, including journalism (except for the ‘women’s pages’, which offered handy housekeeping hints, fashion news and tips for how to get that engagement ring on your finger). Women reporting on violence against women is a relatively new phenomenon. However, the almost universal denial of that essential element in all women’s lives is still going strong.

Rogindon

I’ve written many OLO posts on all this dubious research that comes up with the convenient finding that women are equal to men as perpetrators of violence – indeed as being even more violent. Their methodology is extremely suspect, as is their funding trail. I have neither the time nor the patience to reiterate it all here. You may wish to view my posting history instead

On the beach

Re Daniel Morecombe. Children have always been a major target of disturbed men wanting to do harm. As are women, elderly people, gays, homeless people and minority groups.

These are all individuals who are part of groups who are outside of the entrenched power structure – which is made up almost exclusively of males – either young men of the majority race and in the prime of life, or wealthy middle-aged men of the majority race who are in positions of power.

The kind of violence practised on excluded groups always has a degradation factor and is often of a sexual nature. Another entrenched form of power-based violence is the common tendency for rich men to send poor men off to war.

phanto

Apologies. That damn glitch that keeps defaulting to 'phantom' has struck again. Please accept that it was not my intention.

Killarney, so many lies so little time.
Ordinary men don't rape women under any circumstances, in times of war or otherwise, when men are conscripted into an army en masse of course criminals end up in the ranks.Where such men are detected in military formations they are arrested and dealt with, Edward Leonski for example or Louis Till.
You're also offering us information taken from surveys conducted in South Africa and presenting it as an indication of the views and conduct of all men, your statements about men raping if they think they can get away with it relate to Africans don't they?
http://www.irinnews.org/report/84909/south-africa-one-in-four-men-rape
Africans are different to Asians and Europeans, their behaviour generally could be described as "sub human", African males are notorious for their sub-human treatment of females, everywhere they settle they behave the same way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocLNuOFcoCc

Phanto how nice to see someone who has included other groups who wish to have freedom from violenc bestowed upon them, women seem to feel that they are the only group which are subject to violent behaviour by men.
We all men and women feel threatened if walking in dark areas, it is not only females.
Gay people are threatened all the time by the heterosexual society, of course we accept them but in reality we don't, poofters being the common term used in conversation, what acceptance is that.
Your comment with war games, how true, the poor and vulnerable are used for the non caring Governmments and wealthy, indispensable and not needed.
We can write all we like about abuses, violence, etc but nothing will change, it hasn't 'in the past nor will it change in the centuries to come, we are born the way we are, violence being the order of the day.

Jay,

"Do your own legwork, go looking for reports of Indian sex offenders and you'll find them, I don't have to prove anything because it's common knowledge."

Thank's for those references, see it's not hard when you try; as for doing legwork, it's up to the person making the initial assertions/bald statements to do the legwork not their respondents.

Jay

‘Ordinary men don't rape women under any circumstances’

No. But ordinary men either actively or passively participate in rape culture – using prostitutes; viewing recreational porn that degrades women; absorbing cultural tropes that view sexually active women as sluts; fervently following violent, macho sports; endorsing war as manly, heroic and glorious; revering violent competition, especially in business;engaging in humour that demeans and degrades women; actively discrediting viewpoints that promote women’s financial and emotional independence … the list goes on and on.

It’s a convenient copout to isolate sexual violence to a few disturbed men. Those disturbed men are symptomatic of a society that views women as inferior beings, to be used and exploited in a continuing power struggle between men.

Killarney, "Those disturbed men are symptomatic of a society that views women as inferior beings, to be used and exploited in a continuing power struggle between men"

They were raised by women. Many come from fatherless homes.

Here you go, see if a smile might crack that feminist visage,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlvvCYUDHrQ

On the beach

‘They were raised by women. Many come from fatherless homes.’

And where did the fathers piss off to?

And why do so many single women have to raise their children in poverty and discrimination – the overwhelming contributors to violence in our society?

Killarney " endorsing war as manly" by men, for goodness sake get off your high horse and look beyond your nose, most men do not see war as manly, wars are created by power hungry Governments, not by ordinary men, they are the ones sent off to fight the battles of the Government and are expendable, we are now in the process of listening to garbage about the Anzac soldiers but you will never hear the real truth about the event by the media.
Having just viewed a film from the 1950's, how feminine and attractive those women looked, not like the bum and boob showing now, the more shown the better, woman have a lot to answer for in all rapes and violence etc, why dress like a whore just to attract males, but "no" I wasn't doing that to attract them, just wanting to please myself how I dress, for goodness sake take it all off, you just might as well, I am sure men would run in the opposite direction if that was the case, ugly fat atrocious bodies, who would want to knock any of them off.

Killarney,

It is certain that your loaded questions would have been addressed many times before. However, there are no answers and facts that could ever overcome your selectivity.

Women and society have moved on, evolved if you will, but there are a few feminists who remain stuck in a rut of their own making. Or because they have been making a jolly good income and career for themselves swinging from the government's (taxpayer's) teat and they want that lurk to continue.

Many agree with Peter Hitchens, who noted on Q&A that the cultural war has been fought and won by your side. He was referring to Greer and others on a panel that was hugely weighted against him (it was the ABC!). You would doubtless see yourself on the side of Greer et al. Here is the program which you would enjoy,
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3868791.htm

So to be blunt with you as doubtless others have been forced to be in the past, you already have the re-engineered feminist-'Progressive' aka international socialist dominated society that you demanded. What is there is yours.

Maybe you should get a life, but it doesn't really matter because that is your own choice and your own responsibility.

Killarney,

Admittedly women face violence, often life threatening violence, how would you enable a woman, in a life or death situation, to defend herself?

Is Mise,

Are you aware of the SCUM Manifesto?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto

Still, the radical feminists would have to find a way of eliminating all men, one supposes.

Killarney,

Let's get real on this thing. This battle was fought and won back in the 1970s. It was won by your side. It's done. It's over. You seem to be the only ones who don't accept and understand your own victory circa 1974.

We all accept that women should have equal opportunities in life. Now go out and enjoy your rights. What we don't need is yet more paternalist taxpayer funding built on sexist paradigms that women are the weaker sex and need yet never ending taxpayer funds to support interest groups designed to lobby for yet more taxpayer funds.

Women ARE as good as men and they don't need your help.

Onthebeach "Still, the radical feminists would have to find a way of eliminating all men, one supposes."
Wrong OTB, we still need men to help us create the next generation of feminists!
These lucky feminists won't have it as difficult as we do, given that the feminists of today have more say in bringing up the men of tomorrow.

Until the crime of women being assaulted and/or murdered by their 'intimate partners' is treated as gravely as any other assault or murder committed in the wider community, then feminism is nowhere near finished its work....

Suseonline,

Your cultural war has been won. So you waste your time and are hypocritical in dumping it back at the feet of the huge majority of men who never were as you imagined and were and continue to be caring, loving and protective of their families.

You already have the society you want and feminists dominate the policy debate even before it has begun in the parliaments and elsewhere. You have all of the power you ever dreamed about and more. Here is but one example of dozens from the daily media reports, where line of authority from top to bottom is dominated by women, exclusively women in fact,

<Govt spent $565,000 for $6,000 child debt

A FEDERAL government department has spent $565,000 pursuing a father over a disputed $6,000 child support debt.

THE Department of Human Services defends the cost, saying it's all about clarifying a legal principle.
Independent senator Nick Xenophon raised the case during a Senate estimates hearing in Canberra on Thursday.

The father has spent four years disputing child support agency orders requiring him to pay $6,000 to his ex-wife, he says.

"A fortune is being spent against an unrepresented father," Senator Xenophon said as he quizzed department officials.
The department insisted the case was worth pursuing because it would help it administer the entire child support system.
"This is not just about a $6,000 assessment, it's about a much broader range of issues," department boss Kathryn Campbell said.
One of the reasons for the big cost was that the department was also paying the man's legal costs as it sought "clarity".

The commonwealth won the first round of the dispute, but has now filed a case in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal to block the father from receiving key departmental documents.

The department argues legal professional privilege applies to its refusal.

Human Services Minister Marise Payne said she would look into the matter after being asked to ensure the man won't have to face further legal costs.>

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/govt-spent-565000-for-6000-child-debt/story-e6frfku9-1227239849466

You have the power and influence. Now to shoulder the responsibility for the changes you wrought.

Unfortunately, whenever I think of 'un represented' fathers in the family court system, I think of deadbeats who sacked what lawyers they had (state funded or whatever) because they didn't get what they wanted from them. These angry men then try and represent themselves, and wonder why nothing seems to go their way.

Don't give me that cr#p that feminists have won. We never wanted to 'win' anything except equal rights. We still don't have that, and you know it.
Don't you want that for your daughter? I know I do.

I have just read the whole story about Rosie Batty's case, and the courts continually gave that violent lunatic access to his son, even though they granted her a violence restraining order against him.
He couldn't get to her, so he killed their son to get back at her.
He had access to his son right up to the day they both died, so what did they die for?
It is a disgrace!
If a violent unrelated man other than his father threatened the woman and her son, would that have been ignored also?

Equal rights to me as I see it is for women to have the same pay as men, but I want to see them up in gum trees to cut them down if requested, out digging holes in the ground for electricity cables and TV connections,, getting your hands dirty when water mains break in the middle of the road, to get dirt under your fingernails instead of pink polish,there are so many areas where women should be ,but are not, men can do all that women can except have babies, let's be honest all this business of being stuck in the house washing and ironing, getting meals is rubbish, get out mowing the lawn, pruning bushes etc, men will be only too happy to be inside washing the dishes as most do now, equal rights must be equal rights not selective equal rights.

Not a problem ojnab, some women do already do those jobs, but I have rarely seen men getting in there to care for the elderly in nursing homes etc, getting faeces, vomit and urine on their hands? Or cleaning up vomit etc while cleaning hotel rooms and other housecleaning jobs?

The difference between all those filthy jobs is that the mainly males doing all the jobs you mentioned get a truckload more pay for that filthy work than do the mainly women doing the jobs I mentioned.
Now, therein lies the difference....

OTB,

Yes, I'm aware of the manifesto but women are also killed/injured by other women.

Sometimes because they are 'the other woman'.

Suseonline, we could go on forever on these subjects disputing each other, being a volunteer Ambulance officer in the 1970's where all was done by the attendant & driver, not as of now where all are paid, the police being involved as well, there have been many times when a deceased body had to be picked up, being dead five or six days, watery, maggot and ant infested,smelling unbearably, it was part of the job, remember it was not a paid position at all,we looked after the sick and injured both day and night and I must reiterate not paid.
Men are working in nursing homes, hospitals and have to put up with those same things you mention that you have had to put up with. I have nevre seen a woman with a chain saw up a tree cutting limbs off, I am sure if they were they would be paid the same wage as the men, perhaps when I see Natasha Stott Despoyer up a tree instead of socialising with the rich I will change my mind on everything woman, we can all talk as to what is right and wrong in todays society but as mentioned earlier we are going to change nothing, men and women will still rape, I include women, as a woman recently was raping a young male student, men will kill women and women will kill men for all sorts of reasons, whatever you say and I say will make no difference at all, wars will come and go and always the other side was bad. but we have a halo around our heads, so we were right to kill, and so it will go on forever, long after we are dead and gone

rogindon/on the beach

You are confusing progress with winning. Women have made some progress in terms of equality - and much of that progress has been undermined by the anti-feminist backlash.

It's only those who seriously fear women's power, after having it suppressed for thousands of years, that believe women have 'won', some ludicrously insisting that women are now the dominant gender.

And on the beach, seriously, is it at all possible for you to cease all this 'get a life' rubbish? While it may leave you with a fleeting sense of self-righteousness, it's silly, childish and unhelpful.

Suse

Your last few answers have been brilliant. Well done.

Ojnab, you are right. We could go on and on.
I have known several women just in my small area who have also been involved in the local SES and have retrieved drowned individuals and people who have hung themselves in the bush.
I take my hat off to anyone who can do this job at all, male or female.

I have worked in hospitals and nursing homes for 30 years, and I know there are far fewer men doing the basic personal care jobs than women.
It is a disgrace that these people are paid such a pittance with this difficult job.

Is Mise

In answer to your question, yes, there are many things women can do to get themselves out of a dangerous situation if they are taught how. Unfortunately, society discourages women from learning and practising these techniques.

To give a couple of examples.

When a dangerous situation rears itself, it's a common tendency for both sexes (but particularly women) to wait and make sure that it actually IS dangerous. This loses vital seconds. I know that this option saved my life on one very dangerous occasion. Before I had done the women's self-defence course, I would have waited, because I didn't want to look foolish, or worse, unladylike. The WCD course taught me how dangerous such an attitude was.

By way of another example - one I've never had to use, thank God - is a simple technique to break out of a strangulation hold. Rather than reaching up to pull the attacker's hands away, you push your hands up between his arms in a sudden violent thrust. In the course, a male martial arts instructor took us through this technique and most of the women were able to break the strength of his hold, even though his strength was far greater than theirs. I notice that film and TV crime dramas still show actresses in scenes like these reaching up to pull the attacker's hands away - which is totally ineffectual.

I hope this answers your question.

Partially, Killarney, partially.
I have taught self defence classes for women and, to be frank, most women lack the strength to overcome a male attacker and all with whom I was involved (with a couple of notable exceptions) would not consider making their attacker completely helpless.
They would not countenance plunging their index fingers into the attackers eye sockets as that would blind him, which is the whole idea.

Blinded attackers are rather helpless.

Unarmed self defence is rather useless for frail people; so what could the frail and elderly have that might save them from serious injury or death?

Killarney,

But you should get a life. You have unlimited opportunity and choices before you, many where you as a women will be given a leg-up and special development and counselling. You are only limited by your own personal skills and motivation.

Again, your cultural war has already been won. You waste your time and are hypocritical in dumping it back at the feet of the huge majority of men who never were as you imagined and were and continue to be caring, loving and protective of their families.

You already have the society you want and feminists dominate the policy debate even before it has begun in the parliaments and elsewhere. You have all of the power you ever dreamed about and more. Here is but one example of dozens from the daily media reports, where line of authority from top to bottom is dominated by women, exclusively women in fact.

I gave an example from many, but you and Suseonline preferred to duck it to insist on your victimhood. However it is indisputable that the feminist elite of educated middle class careerists who claim to represent all women but feathered their own nests instead, are rolling in power and influence (and self-entitlement).

Now to shoulder the responsibility for the unforeseen negative consequences of the changes you have wrought. Such as well-off middle class with double incomes forcing up inner city house prices and displacing the old and low income earners who used to call those older suburbs home. Or the social problems from destruction of your hated 'traditional'(sic) family, and the creation of single parent households where fathers are unknown.

Women are represented in powerful policy and decision-making roles as barristers, judges, senior executives, ministers of the crown and as Premiers and PM too,

"Sarah Bradley as freed rapist allegedly attacks same victim again
THE COURIER-MAIL OCTOBER 18, 2013
A CONTROVERSIAL judge is in the firing line again after an accused rapist was set free and allegedly raped and stabbed the same woman."
http://tinyurl.com/nnewm3y

tbc..

continued..

and this,
Home invasion gang’s prison terms halved By STEPHEN RYAN March 20, 2015,
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2959158/home-invasion-gangs-prison-terms-halved/?cs=305

This was an armed home invasion where an offender, in front of four small children, put a rifle muzzle to a woman's head and pulled the trigger and Justice Elizabeth Fullerton ruled, "Despite the seriousness of the offending, which I would assess as less than mid-range principally because no actual violence as distinct from threats of violence was inflicted .. the sentences ..were so excessive as to be unreasonable or plainly unjust".

It is plain that any problems you might complain about as being rooted in 'gender' actually stem instead from the leftist 'Progressive' policies and laws advised by the educated middle class hipster elite and especially the feminist elite of that.

What about some accountability from the leftist 'Progressives' aka the International Socialists? You have a considerable hide to blame the millions of ordinary law-abiding, loving, caring and hard-working men for the leftist Progressives' softness on criminals and their callous disregard for the victims of crime.

Is Mise

'Partially, Killarney, partially.'

Yes, I know. If a woman is confronted by an armed attacker or more than one, all bets are off.

As for your account that none of the women in your self-defence course were able to fight you off, well that completely conflicts with my experience - unless my male instructor was faking it.

Your point about the women not wanting to resort to bodily harm - e.g. eye-gouging - that's the main point I was making.

Women's self-defence is not just about physical SD skills - it's also about mental preparedness to be physically violent when the situation calls for it. This is something that this culture has always discouraged in women, as we are brought up to believe that our only defence against attack is either limiting our movements (and thus, our lives) or deferring to men for protection.

I notice also that the enculturated defencelessness traditionally directed at women is now being expanded to the general population. In recent decades, entire populations of most Western countries are now being legislated into becoming virtually defenceless against personal attack - using spurious arguments about terrorism, law and order etc.

I really wish people would wake to this.

on the beach

I confess I got through the first two paragraphs of the first of your two lengthy link-saturated posts - and then stopped.

From what I did read, you are banging your tired old drum that feminists need to get a life and that feminism is all about being mean and horrible to all those beautiful, darling, caring men out there. Heard it all before - many times a day.

Maybe I'm missing something utterly brilliant - that's my loss. I'll leave it to other OLO readers on this thread to reap the benefit of your infinite wisdom.

Killarney,

You have nothing to dispel the facts I have put you. So you revert to insults and a walk-out.

The clever, connected and always advantaged educated middle class feminist clique have done very well for themselves. Some are still angling for an assisted leg up to directorships as the cherry on top, but that is only to be expected. They are 'go-getters' who always were advantaged anyway and managed to stack the deck to do even better for themselves.

You must be wondering how you missed out.

Killarney,

"As for your account that none of the women in your self-defence course were able to fight you off,...."

That's not what I said, what I said was that most women lack the strength to overcome a male attacker, that is a biological fact.
Even more so for the elderly and the frail.

How can they be empowered to defend themselves, not at some time in the dim future when we all live in harmony and mutual respect, but right now in the present?
Is there anything that will allow a 70 year old, 7 stone woman to defeat a 20 year old, 12 stone male in the prime of life?

Surely there must be some way that she could save herself?

Perhaps a phone that automatically dials 000 and linked to a teleportation device that brings the police instantly?

Is Mise

You seem to be stuck in dominance-submission thinking. Self-defence is not about 'overcoming' your attacker. It's about using whatever means you can - physical and mental - to neutralise the situation and/or give yourself vital seconds that might help you escape.

Killarney,

What I'm stuck in is the survival of the victim and that often means overcoming them if escape is not an option.
The 70 year old woman can't outrun the 20 year old attacker.

So how could she defend herself, as I said also ringing 000 is not much of an option.

The 20 year old intends to murder her, that is obvious to her.

Is Mise

You're starting to get weird. I thought you wanted to discuss self-defence, but you seem to want to validate the hegemony of brute force. According to what I perceive to be your premise, anyone who is not a predatory, macho-male brute in the prime of life has virtually no chance of getting out of a dangerous situation alive.

If that were true, I would not be alive today. (Perhaps several OLO posters would be happy with that prospect, but that's not the issue right now.)

Killarney,

Is it brute force if a 70 year old woman kills a 20 year old male who intends to kill her?
Don't tell me that older women have never been attacked and murdered as well as young ones.

Hey Killarney,

What is your gender studies gobbley-gook's take on the woman in Albanvale arrested TODAY for killing an elderly man and a young child. Self-defence?

And the mother in Cairns who committed the greatest massacre of children in Australian history less than 6 months ago?

Surely feminist theory must have some strange Marxist theory to explain it?

@Rogindon @ Killarney

"What is your gender studies gobbley-gook's take on the woman in Albanvale arrested TODAY for killing an elderly man and a young child. Self-defence?

And the mother in Cairns who committed the greatest massacre of children in Australian history less than 6 months ago?"

Courtesy of 9 News Perth, here's another example of a woman in action and she ain't your demure frightened little innocent woman you see in domestic violence ads: http://tinyurl.com/l8d8hor

What a storm in a tea cup.

All our lives are governed by rules to keep us safe, there are rules that apply to pedestrians, to road users. If you operate dangerous machinery there are safety rules to follow to prevent injury or death to your self or others.

Generally when safety rules are broken, it is when people get injured or killed.

There are a few activities that we are advised not to do by oneself, such as bush walking, scuba diving, rock fishing just to name a few.

It is not just women who get attack, the cowards punch generally seems to happen around night club spots. So in reality if someone wants to attack and hurt you, it could happen anywhere, at any time,(mostly night). It happens in crowded areas as well as lonely areas.

When compared to many other countries around the world, Australia is a very safe country.

WollyB, you are right when you say:

"When compared to many other countries around the world, Australia is a very safe country."

Yes when you look at the stats say on per 100,000 population basis in the jurisdiction that I live in, its very low. 2 or less a year are murdered and its not always women who are the victims. That's why the propagandists in the domestic violence industry don't talk about the stats on the cases going through the courts as to the no of allegations substantiated, no of allegations unsubstantiated, the no's of applications rejected, the no of applications withdrawn, the no of cases where criminal charges were laid, and the relationship of the parties to each other. No, better to keep those stats away from the public. Those people would rather talk about the "spike" in the number of phone calls the DV crisis service received...that's right...nothing more meaning full than that besides spouting the ol "one in three women..." bullcrap, conflating whats happening in places like Walgett with that in cities. Have you ever seen an indigenous person in a DV ad other than as a victim?

@Suseonline,

"The difference between all those filthy jobs is that the mainly males doing all the jobs you mentioned get a truckload more pay for that filthy work than do the mainly women doing the jobs I mentioned.
Now, therein lies the difference...."

But that's not the only "difference". Here are some other differences:

-within relationships more of mens' income flows to the benefit of women than womens' income flows to the benefit of men.

-It can also be argued that women, because on average they live longer than men, over their lifetime women receive more in the way of reversionary superannuation pension benefits than men.

-over their lifetime women receive more from social security, the old age pension etc. which come from taxes...a greater proportion of which are paid by men.

-women also take more time off work and despite generally speaking men doing the more dangerous types work they claim more in the way of workers compensation. Do you remember the big rort for women that RSI used to be?

So Suseonline may I suggest that you get away from your very narrow way of thinking on these issues.

Killarny,

And another thing on feminism and equality. The original feminists had good - even great - ideas about emancipating half the world's population.

But C21 feminists care nothing about equality. The litmus test of the C21 feminist is the belief that there are 2 genders one of which is abusive and one is not. One test and one criteria to determine if someone is a true C21 feminist or not. This is more accurately described as gender supremacism.

If feminists truly cared about equality where is all your advocacy about the inequality between the genders in education? Where is one single feminist decrying the fact that far more girls than boys complete high school? Or the fact the women have already achieved the previous Labor Government's target that 40% of 25-34 year olds achieve bachelor degrees? Men of that age are sitting around 30 per cent or less and the target will never be reached unless something is done to help young men. Perhaps that's why the target has been dropped.

Roscop do you have references for the points you made about various government payouts?

I've gone hunting and found a couple of interesting documents. The first is about workers compensation for mental stress where there is a massive difference along gender lines http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/SWA/about/Publications/Documents/769/The-Incidence-Accepted-WC-Claims-Mental-Stress-Australia.pdf (mostly page 9 for the breakdown of categories)

Broader coverage for the year ending 30 June 2009 at https://www.srcc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/57333/00524_SRCC_Compendium_v17.pdf which gives a greater breakdown of categories and covers a wider range of mechanism of incident - page 25 That one has as I read it males making significantly greater numbers of claims in all categories except mental stress and the largest group making claims seems to be "Licensed self-insurers, male"

The novelty item that popped up in my searching was this one http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-30/sex-compensation-high-court/5057348

R0bert

Roscop

Roscop

As I didn’t know about the Albanvale woman, I did quick a Google and this was the first article that came up – the Herald Sun ‘Law and Order’ section.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/homicide-squad-probes-deaths-of-woman-and-child-in-albanvale/story-fni0fee2-1227286678125

What was most interesting about this article was not the article itself, but the right-hand column which showed all the other ‘Law and Order’ articles to link to. At the time I viewed it, this is the list of subject matter in the column’s articles link:

A pedophile priest
A violent polygamous ice trafficker (male)
Brutal death of a sex worker (female)
Another pedophile priest
A father who threw his children off a bridge
The (male) killer of Jill Meagher
The ‘Mornington Monster’ – a father who murdered his family with a spear gun
Search for a missing (female) teen
A (male) schoolboy killer
A (male) cop killer

Oh, and a list of the top ten best movie-restaurant massacres – 8 male perpetrators all using guns, 2 female perpetrators both using martial arts.

Notice the gender pattern by any chance?

And another thing … your long list of ‘facts’ to Suse about money flowing out of the work-calloused hands of men and into the coffers of greedy women kind of shoots you in your own anti-feminist tootsies.

One of the major goals of feminism is, and always has been, WOMEN’S FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE.

Got that?

And if women had financial independence, all that money would NOT be supposedly flowing from men to women, would it now?

Perhaps you’d better stop worrying and learn to love feminism. It looks to be overtaking the dog as man’s best friend.

Rogindon

Most of those statistics you gave are skewed by the fact that the overwhelming majority of trades are made up of men - the only exception being hairdressing. A lot of trades apprenticeships require TAFE course and do not need high school completion and none require university degrees.

Also, most of the 'bachelors degrees' that women hold are in nursing, teaching and social work - the training for which was upgraded from Nursing and Teachers Colleges in the 1970s. This skews the supposed 'escalation' of women at universities.

Degrees for higher paid professions - engineering, law, business, medicine and architecture - are still mostly dominated by males.

As for boys' supposed poor performance in schools, why should that be high on any feminist agenda? It's an issue for educators, politicians and other vested stakeholders to address.

You wouldn't condemn an environmentalist for not fighting for gay rights. You wouldn't condemn a socialist for not doing enough to save koalas.

But feminism, for some weird reason, is constantly condemned for not doing enough to make men's lives better. That's men's job - or are you so used to women looking after you that you can't do anything for yourselves?

There IS of course a so-called 'mens movement', but from what I've seen of it, the primary focus of ALL its energy is in spreading bigotry, disinformation and hatred of feminism as the cause of men's problems.

RObert, I don't have any references at hand on government payouts...it is just what I have stored in my mind over a number of years reading about these issues. But I have read papers like the one you provide a link to, so thanks for that. You'll never hear the sex discrimination commissioner mentioning those differences as she goes on with her constant equal pay for women whinge. It shows to me she doesn't have much integrity.

Yes the sex compensation case was indeed a classic.

Cheers

@Killarney,

"A father who threw his children off a bridge". Nup didn't hear about that one...read about the one who threw his daughter off a bridge in Victoria...besides I'm more interested in insightful statistics produced using unbiased methodologies. That is the antithesis to feminist methodologies.

Women are responsible for more instances of child abuse...not their biological fathers...women hold the record for the number of children killed by one person....currently stands at 8..."Notice the gender pattern by any chance?"

Re your post addressed to Rogindon. In it you say:

"Degrees for higher paid professions - engineering, law, business, medicine and architecture - are still mostly dominated by males."

Law...wrong! Business...wrong! Medicine...wrong!

"Out of bachelor graduates (under 25) in the field of law, 33.3 per cent were male and 66.7 per cent were female."

"Out of bachelor graduates (under 25) in the field of business studies, 43.3 per cent were male and 56.7 per cent were female."

"Out of bachelor graduates (under 25) in the field of medicine, 42.3 per cent were male and 57.7 per cent were female."

http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/

@Killarney,

"A father who threw his children off a bridge". Nup didn't hear about that one...read about the one who threw his daughter off a bridge in Victoria...besides I'm more interested in insightful statistics produced using unbiased methodologies.

Posted by Roscop, Friday, 3 April 2015 1:37:55 AM

If I recall correctly, there was also a mother who jumped off the bridge with her child not long after the above incident.

The Herald Sun has been running a law and order section and there was one on TV that also included Female murders.

Killarney conveniently quotes a condensed section of what has been running in the law and order section.

Killarney,

I'm not interested in this stupid gender war. Men do bad things. Women do bad things.

No one on my side of the debate would deny that both genders are capable of bad things, including abuse.

I don't know whether you are a religious person or not. But thought I would give this one a go being Good Friday. Do you think God would create one abusive gender and one non-abusive one?

Even if you are not religious, do you think it makes sense in science and natural selection that one abusive sex has evolved as such and one pure innocent non-abusive and (therefore superior) sex has evolved?

It's nonsense. Whether you are Christian or non-believer, men and women need one another not just for reproduction, but for everything in life - love, protection, mutual support, to rear children, to fight off enemies, to reinforce our mutual humanity. We're the one species. We need one another. Men are not the enemy. Neither are women.

I say both men and women are equally capable of evil. Can you honestly say that makes me sexist or a denier of human rights?

Likewise if you say that the evil in this world is only or even overwhelmingly committed by men and that women are by their nature not capable of abuse, can you honestly not call yourself sexist or a denier of human rights? I hesitate to use the word gender supremacist, but how else could you categorize such a position?

Roscop

‘I'm more interested in insightful statistics produced using unbiased methodologies.’

Really? And straight after this you went on to say that women hold the record for most number of children killed by one person. If that’s your idea of being statistically insightful and unbiased, it’s certainly not mine.

Ever heard of Dunblane, Sandy Hook, Columbine or West Nickel Mines Amish School, or that Norwegian guy who shot up about 80 people, most of them teenagers?

‘Women are responsible for more instances of child abuse’

When the disproportionate parenting time is taken into account (female 70% - male 30%, World Childcare Handbook) and the 80%+ of single parent homes headed by women, men commit a disproportionately higher percentage of emotional, sexual and physical abuse on children.

Women however do feature significantly higher in neglect statistics (about 90%). When lumped in with total abuse statistics, this creates a distorted average across all forms of abuse, which makes men look much less violent then they are and women much more violent.

As for the university stats – I was not correct re law and medicine, but my point still stands. Engineering, IT and science (especially chemistry, physics, maths and computer science) are now the highest paid degree professions and they are male dominated. No doubt this accounts for why male graduate starting salaries are almost 10% higher than for females, despite the fact that women outnumber men at university.

Robingdon

‘I’m not interested in this stupid gender war.’

If that is so, then why keep baiting and bullying feminists? You are not only interested in ‘this stupid gender war’, you are an active participant.

‘Do you think God would create one abusive gender and one non-abusive one?’

Yes. Absolutely!

Just look at every religion in the world over the past 2,500 years. They are full of male deities wreaking violent havoc on everyone and everything.

As for women, religion has consigned them to the periphery – reduced to prostitutes, rape victims, madonnas and virgin birthers. The ancient polytheistic pagan religions treated women slightly better, but only slightly.

The only reason that this is finally starting to change (albeit very slowly) is because of that 'stupid gender war'.

@Killarney re:

"As for women, religion has consigned them to the periphery – reduced to prostitutes, rape victims, madonnas and virgin birthers. "

I read in the UK telegraph that "The majority of churchgoers are women, as are the number of new priests."

Which of the four categories you mention do you think the women flocking to churches on sundays mostly aspire to?

'Just look at every religion in the world over the past 2,500 years. They are full of male deities wreaking violent havoc on everyone and everything.'

I thought it was doctors at the request of women murdering millions of unborn children. You got that wrong Killarney

Killarney,

You haven't told me yet how the frail 70 year old woman could be empowered to resist and successfully defend herself against that 20 year old male monster that is intent on raping her and then shutting her mouth permanently.

How could she do it?

Time to give up this subject completely, no one is going to win in the end.

Firstly Killarney writes;

<But feminism, for some weird reason, is constantly condemned for not doing enough to ,<make men's lives better. That's men's job - or are you so used to women looking after
<you that you can't do anything for yourselves?

Yet at the same time she promotes the idea that feminism is about equality. A humanitarian would help either gender, without claiming martyrdom.

She then writes;
<There IS of course a so-called 'mens movement', but from what I've seen of it, the
<primary focus of ALL its energy is in spreading bigotry, disinformation and hatred of
< feminism as the cause of men's problems.

The exact same claim that the men's movement claims that feminism also engaged in bigotry, disinformation.

Also female academics and authors also write articles that support the claims made by the men's movement.

Psychologist Toby Green wrote about how some people believe that if others do not agree with their point of view, that the person who does not agree with them either dislikes or hates them.

If any of the claims made by feminist are true and accurate, then they should be able to with stand scrutiny and challenges.

New insights and understanding can be made by challenging and scrutinising old ideas or beliefs. If debate is stifled, then ideas and understanding are stifled.

Communism tried to stifle beliefs and ideas that did not match their dogma, other Military regime around the world also do this.

I would like to see feminist more humanistic in their beliefs and approaches

Killarney,

'There is one abusive sex and one non-abusive one'. How is that not a sexist position?

Look, to be honest I understand your position. You adhere to a kind of religion cum ideology (much like Communism) whose fundamental position is gender warfare replacing the class warfare of the old Marxists.

You're perfectly entitled to your position. It just happens to be one that I don't agree with and its side effects are bad for society.

Rogindon, The argument that Killarney et al use: "'There is one abusive sex and one non-abusive one'" is the argument that underlies the statement that women who to take themselves & their male partner's children off to women's refuges are escaping/fleeing domestic violence. This "more holier than thou" language is used extensively within the domestic violence industry.

Women who finish up in women's refuges are not necessarily escaping relationship violence. A more accurate statement would be that they are escaping relationship conflict. I am sure taxpayer funded women's refuges are very welcoming to and accommodating of women who have dished out violence in the relationships they are said to be escaping(sic).

In many cases women who are in refuges are just setting themselves up to more easily obtain custody of the children. Women's refuges are just like taxpayer funded halfway houses for women wanting to end their relationship. If you could look at the faces of women in refuges you would find it hard to find one that looked battered and bruised.

Watch the sparks fly with this one.

A woman who was on hormonal treatment for IVF admitted that whilst she was on the treatment, she believed that she was always right and everyone else was wrong.

It was not until her treatment had ceased, did she realise this.

Once upon a time I would have agreed with Killarney, but now after challenging what I was lead to believe was true, I can no longer support these beliefs.

Killarney,

Before this topic fades into oblivion could you, or anyone else, tell me how that vulnerable 70 year old woman could successfully defend herself against an aggressive 20 year old male who is intent on taking her life?

The woman has a right to defend herself against violence.