Very sad to see the decline in the quality of both writing and research in online opinion.

Dress it up, tart it up, call it what you will, but, still, shooting fish in a barrel is shooting fish in a barrel.

As a consumer of news it's frustrating only getting one side of the story, but as a journo it is worse. Additionally the Pro-Palestine movement is particularly vocal here in Australia. This further affects the options for presenting both sides of any M/E issue. It isn't strictly the media's role to take a side, though some specializations allow for that (& I'm not including MSM news' increasingly pervasive commentary & op-eds, because that isn't news, it's simply opinion). Almost all news cover has taken a side and it isn't productive - general news needs to be impartial, though specialist journos can investigate one side (this must occur only while addressing both sides - and that's the law, as disregarded as it might be).

The reports that you mentioned are important, David, & it'd be great to have access to that data & those information sources - if you'd like to add them here, or on your blog? I read a letter to The Australian by Peter W that pointed out similar details, regarding the use of neutral bodies, such as the UN, that perhaps inadvertently had sheltered Hamas participants. But no media has effectively tested the credibility of those claims though. Because of the feverish condemnation about Israel, politically speaking, few editors are interested in finding out more about those details.

*Nonetheless, most M/E countries, Israel included, do not support a free and robust press - this was evident in the death of an Australian in custody in recent years. So, while in my view this op-ed is extremely important, you're going to cop a lot of flak - just as any journo or editor or producer would if they explored these issues. It's a brave writer that swims against the current of public opinion.

Yes it does David!
Rhrosty.

you forget David that the leftist 'progresives'want to believe their own lies. You have obviously never watched Q & A. They even have 'conservatives'saying that Isalm is a religion of peace. THe more truth you publish, the more they will bag you. for the progressives like Islam its all about ideology not truth.

In Singer's world the FPA protesting 'in the strongest terms' is slamming Hamas but when it 'strongly condemns' Israel it is a mild criticism?

Each article from this man climbs heights that are more and more divorced from reality.

Here is a piece from Haaretz
“I wasn’t intimidated at any point,” says one seasoned war reporter. “I didn’t feel Hamas were a threat to my welfare any more than Israeli bombings. I’m aware some people had problems, but nothing beyond what you would expect covering a conflict. Hamas’s levels of intimidation weren’t any worse than what you occasionally experience at the hands of the IDF, which didn’t allow access to fighting for most of the conflict either. As a rule no armed forces permit you to broadcast militarily sensitive information.”

As to having the IDF targeting the 11th floor offices of a news agency most critical of Israeli's conduct during this war brushed off as an OOPS moment, it is just too much.

David Singer,

No "manipulation" needed...

We saw what Israel was doing to the unarmed civilians of Gaza.

we saw it through the pictures posted on the net.

What is humiliating for the Israeli regime is that these pictures were not able to be censored.

We saw it....

#The Future

Care to be more specific?

#halduell

Not when it is reported that a family of eleven were killed when that did not occur.

#Daily

All the reports referred to by me are sourced as hyperlinkslinks in my article. Just click on the particular words underlined and they will lead you to the reports.

#runner

Then the liars have to be exposed. I spend a lot of time on OLO doing that.

#steeleRedux

Your capacity for deceiving and misleading continues to colour your opinion.

You state:

"As to having the IDF targeting the 11th floor offices of a news agency most critical of Israeli's conduct during this war brushed off as an OOPS moment, it is just too much."

You omit to state:

"The IDF apologised claiming it was in error and said they would investigate the incident."

What else do you expect Israel to do?

Have you heard anything from the Gaza official who falsely claimed a family of eleven were dead ?

# poirot

What you see is not always the truth:

"Over the past week the hashtag #GazaUnderAttack has been used hundreds of thousands of times, often to distribute pictures claiming to show the effects the airstrikes.

Some of the images are of the current situation in Gaza, but a #BBCtrending analysis has found that some date as far back as 2009 and others are from conflicts in Syria and Iraq."

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28198622

Yes, we were allowed to see Israels reprisals, but none of the rocket fire that precipitated/manufactured it!
For mine, Hamas, who holds its own civilian population hostage, and then like craven cowards, cowers behind it as they continue to attack Israel!
Projects a Hamas story that's is both affected and confected.
The attack on a school apparently was outside the still completely undamaged school, and possibly on a couple of Hamas fighters, just after they'd fired off yet another rocket.
I mean, why fire these things at all and at huge cost to the Gazan aid budget, which are almost completely ineffectual!
Given the knock down numbers, the early warning system, or the shelters, which unlike Hamas, the Jews provide for their civilian population.
I mean, had Hamas concentrated on defense alone, all those "tunnels" could have been civilian shelters, and the death toll significantly less or completely negated?
Which seems mostly the case in Israel!
For mine Hamas are little better than the equally mindless mass murdering Isil!
If they just used any one of a number of negotiated cease fires, to end this madness, they could simply wait out Israel, until Arabs outnumbered Jews at the ballot box!
And even as far less radical, peace loving Jews migrate away, in their hundreds of thousands; that day draws closer and closer!
Meaning, everything Hamas does now, works against them and for a nuclear armed Israel.
Who will use these terrible weapons, if backed into a corner, and or threatened with mass genocide/another holocaust!
No ifs buts or maybes!
And just because I can see the writing writ large on the wall; doesn't mean I agree with it, as proposed by less than honest, verbalizing Hamas lovers!?
And who is paying for all these thousands of quite costly Hamas rockets!?
Aid donors?
And then we wonder why aid and sympathy is drying up!
One notes that those who flew their hijacked airliners into the twin towers, included so called Christians!?
Rhrosty.

@ David Singer posted Monday, 18 August 2014 3:44:46 PM
I am very relieved to hear that some of the fish managed to dodge the bullets, that is if what you say is true. So where does that leave us - 1900 dead instead of 1911? Lucky few!
I also find it just too twee for words that Israel and her backers - that's you, David - having manipulated the world's media for what seems like ever, now castigate Gazans for turning to social media to display their plight. Did you really think you would always get a free pass?
Of course you will get that pass as long as the nutters are in control in the US. They like shooting fish in a barrel. Witness eastern Ukraine, northern Iraq, Gaza, north-west Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, and everywhere else the bombs fall and the drones fly.
Or Ferguson, Missouri, for that matter.

Singer you're a shocker,

You wrote; “A report that a family of 11 were killed in an Israeli air strike in Gaza has turned out to be false”

Then you put to me; “Have you heard anything from the Gaza official who falsely claimed a family of eleven were dead ?”

Clearly you were ascribing the 'falsehood' to Hamas.

Note the New Statesman article you referenced was published on the 13th.

Here is the initial piece done by the Telegraph published on the 9th.

Quote;

“The eight-year-old boy's question seemed simple enough but was all the more tragically poignant for that.

"Why don't you have the lights on?" Mohammed Badran asked on waking up from reconstructive surgery carried out after an Israeli artillery shell struck the house where he slept and blew away most of his face.

"I couldn't explain it. I said it's just because you are recovering from surgery that we have the lights off," said Ghassan Abu Sitta, a British plastic surgeon who conducted the emergency procedure at Gaza City's Shifa hospital.

In fact, Mohammed's life will be forever in darkness. He lost one eye and was totally blinded in the other in the July 30 strike on his home in the southern Gaza town of Nuseirat that also seriously wounded his 10-year-old sister, Hanan, and his brother, Ebrahim, aged 12.

Now the boy's family are appealing for urgent action to transfer him to a hospital in the UK that will carry out further sophisticated surgery that is beyond the capacity of Gaza's drastically overstretched and impoverished facilities.

End quote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11023472/Gaza-conflict-looming-health-crisis-as-Britain-sends-doctors-to-Gaza.html

Note Mohammed Badran is 8 not 10 and his entire family, though some of them seriously wounded, are certainly not totally 'wiped out'.

There certainly is a case to condemn, sloppy, sensationalist journalism but it took very little research to find the Statesman's story was wrong and probably hurriedly plucked and hyped from Tait's piece. You chose yet again to not do any due diligence because you were determined to produce media showing Hamas in a bad light.

You sir are the problem.

David Singer,

"What you see is not always the truth:

"Over the past week the hashtag #GazaUnderAttack has been used hundreds of thousands of times, often to distribute pictures claiming to show the effects the airstrikes.

Some of the images are of the current situation in Gaza, but a #BBCtrending analysis has found that some date as far back as 2009 and others are from conflicts in Syria and Iraq."

No doubt some pictures were from other theatres of war...but I put it to you that the vast majority were from Gaza during the Israeli assault.

As were reports being tweeted by doctors on the ground and UN representatives - not to mention 'respected" journalists.

With at least 70% civilians killed - hundreds of those children - lets not split hairs over a minority of pictures that may not have been from this conflict.

(I also note that the BBC ignored huge protests held in London against the slaughter in Gaza - not reporting them or giving them only minimal coverage)

The world-wide Jewish lobby is of course far more influential and powerful than the relatively miniscule Hamas "lobby".
Meanwhile the essay by Max Blumenthal titled How Israel Used (uses) Its Own Civilians As Human Shields provides a necessary truth-telling counterpoint to the usual Zionist propaganda.

ETHNIC CLEANSING

is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

ETHNIC CLEANSING

is usually accompanied with the efforts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

Anyone who tries to describe what is going on in Palestine as anything else is spouting rubbish.

Comical Dave is upset.

Apparently there are so many pictures of dead Palestinian children circulating that Hamas can try to make it look even worse by showing old ones. How naughty.

Here's a radical idea: How about Israel just stops killing children. I know how extreme that must sound but just think, if Israel stops killing children, there won't be any pictures of dead children.

'Maybe they should stay out of Gaza and let Hamas do its own media releases.'

I love this too. There is nothing like experience in life. We all know that AIPAC writes US government media releases as well as US ME foreign policy. Why not suggest Hamas does the same?

Comical Dave is so easy to read. The simple formula is:
Truth = opposite of whatever Comical Dave writes.

Singer this time exposes Israel as just a bunch of lying murderers.

Singer quoted the FPA as saying:

1. Hamas,'harassed, threatened or questioned (Journalists) over stories'.

2. Hamas put in place 'a "vetting" procedure that would, in effect, allow for the blacklisting of specific journalists.'

3. Hamas threatened 'journalists could be expelled from Gaza.'

The result: the FPA 'slamming Hamas for its treatment of journalists.'

Singer then quoted the FPA as saying (the Israeli Army indulged in):

1. 'outright (Invective) attacks on journalists'.

2. 'aimed live fire at the Al Jazeera offices in Gaza City. The offices are on the 11th floor of a known commercial centre.'
(an obvious site for a tunnel when using precision-guided munitions)

3. 'physically attacked and abused' an Arab journalist.

The result: 'The FPA strongly condemns deliberate official and unofficial incitement against journalists working to cover the current warfare under very difficult circumstances as well as forcible attempts to prevent journalists and TV crews from carrying out their news assignments. While we do not condone the use of invective by any side, outright attacks on journalists are absolutely unacceptable.'

But Singer tells us the 'FPA has also been mildly critical of Israel'.

That's right while the whole world (Take a look at the organisations in the FPA) sees outright attacks on civilian journalists as utterly unacceptable Singer sees them as deserving only mild criticism.

Singer acknowledges Hamas won the propaganda war. It's no bloody wonder.

But get this Singer

"... we need to inflict a painful and unequivocal blow on Hamas. Anything less would be a Hamas victory," Michael Oren, a former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. said to US officials.

Singer it's no wonder you're grizzling. Hamas is good at humiliation.

But the same happened with Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. Are you bothering to wonder why?

Here's a clue, it wasn't the journalists fault.

My God, I have not been following this conflict much, however after reading this thread I decided to google images for "gaza children"
How does Israel get away with some of the most shocking war crimes I have seen?

Thanks David, I should've been clearer but my comment was already quite long - there were a couple of your references in particular that I was quite interested in following up on. I found several tweets re John Reed's experiences when I searched his name on Twitter. I am following the Financial Times, but hadn't heard about it.

#SteeleRedux

1. I used the term "Gaza official". How do you conclude that I was "clearly ascribing the falsehood to Hamas"? What gives you the right to falsely interpret my statement?

2. Yes - the New Statesman article was published on 13 August - but in your usual deceptive and misleading way you fail to indicate it was written before then - as the correction dated 12 August makes bleedingly obvious.

3. So when was it written? My guess is before 9 August - the date of the Telegraph article to which you refer - because the same New Statesman reporter published an article on 9 August in which he stated:

"Israeli bombing this morning destroyed one of the largest mosques in central Gaza, killing at least three Palestinians preparing for dawn prayers, including the father of a severely injured ten year old boy blinded in an earlier strike on their home a week ago....Among the three bodies recovered was that of Nidal Badran, 44, who had been desperately hoping that his son Mohammed, who is currently in Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital suffering from serious cranio-facial injuries, including the loss of his sight, would be transferred for urgently needed surgery to Europe. Six others of Mr Badran’s children were also injured in the earlier strike."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-dawn-air-strike-on-mosque-kills-three-after-ceasefire-breaks-down-9659331.html

4.Was Badran Senior preparing for dawn prayers as our intrepid journalist reported?

5. Apparently not. He was a terrorist according to this report.
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/donald-macintyre-independent-new.html#.U_KX3H8aySP

6. So Badran Senior's house and the horrific injuries suffered by members of his family takes on a different perspective.

How many such similar stories remain to be unearthed as claims of deliberate killing of civilians pour out of Gaza - unchecked and unverified?

I am afraid sir - that you and all the other Jew haters on OLO who are engaged in whipping up mass hysteria and incitement not only against Israel but against Jews all around the world - are the problem.

So anyone who challenges your propaganda view of the Israelis behaviours or the fundamental flaws in their state religion or their inability to change behaviours or the inability to revise their religion are Jewish haters?

Is that the case David?

Or would you like to point them out to me as I only see hate and discrimination being spread on olo by the Israeli supporters and propagandists.

You see David you might wear our clothes but resorting to such labeling says you wear a dark veil over your heart.

imajulianutter,

"So anyone who challenges your propaganda view of the Israelis behaviours or the fundamental flaws in their state religion or their inability to change behaviours or the inability to revise their religion are Jewish haters?"

Good question...

David Singer,

Is this Rabbi a Jew hater too?

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/04/israel_has_broken_my_heart_i%E2%80%99m_a_rabbi_in_mourning_for_a_judaism_being_murdered_by_israel/

"Israel has broken my heart: I’m a rabbi in mourning for a Judaism being murdered by Israel"

<<So anyone who challenges your propaganda view of the Israelis behaviours or the fundamental flaws in their state religion or their inability to change behaviours or the inability to revise their religion are Jewish haters?>>

The key point here --which the usual suspects are ignoring -- is yes, there are quite a number of persons inside Israel who criticize Israeli policy or Judaism even (some are even holding down govt jobs!). But how many can you find openly criticizing Hamas or Islam inside Gaza?

Any takers?

SPQR,

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html?_r=1

"Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn’t provide for their citizens’ basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud"

And how did Israel respond?

"Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world."

And that's beside the fact that Israel just saw fit to outrage the world by a mass slaughter of unarmed civilians in Gaza.

#imajulianutter continues to mislead and misrepresent.

This is what the Foreign Press Association said and which I published:

"The FPA protests in the strongest terms the blatant, incessant, forceful and unorthodox methods employed by the Hamas authorities and their representatives against visiting international journalists in Gaza over the past month.

The international media are not advocacy organisations and cannot be prevented from reporting by means of threats or pressure, thereby denying their readers and viewers an objective picture from the ground.

In several cases, foreign reporters working in Gaza have been harassed, threatened or questioned over stories or information they have reported through their news media or by means of social media.

We are also aware that Hamas is trying to put in place a "vetting" procedure that would, in effect, allow for the blacklisting of specific journalists. Such a procedure is vehemently opposed by the FPA."

This is how imajulianutter dealt with the Foreign Press Association statement:

"Singer quoted the FPA as saying:

1. Hamas,'harassed, threatened or questioned (Journalists) over stories'.

2. Hamas put in place 'a "vetting" procedure that would, in effect, allow for the blacklisting of specific journalists.'

3. Hamas threatened 'journalists could be expelled from Gaza.'

imajulianutter has no credibility and I have made it clear I do not intend to respond to his or her rubbish. When I am misrepresented I will let readers know.

#Poirot

If you want to put anything to me - support it with evidence.

Have you watched the video at this link?
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28198622

Do you approve this conduct?

David Singer,

"If you want to put anything to me - support it with evidence."

Are you saying those pictures I saw and commentary I read don't amount to "evidence"?

That Israel didn't just go into and raze Gaza?

That all those dead children I saw somehow are misleading?

That the BBC didn't give minimal reportage to huge demonstrations in London for Gaza?

Unbelievable....

Mr Singer sir you have become an utter abomination and surely not fit to be given a public podium in this country.

You wrote;

“So Badran Senior's house and the horrific injuries suffered by members of his family takes on a different perspective.”

What god damn warped bloody perspective allows the justification for bombing this person's family? For seriously injuring so many of his children? For permanently blinding his son? For bombing his place of worship?

Is it some tenuous link to the Al Qassam Brigades?

From your link; “And it wasn't as if Macintyre didn't have a clue. He knew Badran was a policeman, and every decent reporter in Gaza should know that the vast majority of policemen have traditionally also been members of the Al Qassam Brigades.”

If you regard this action in any way legitimate then so must the planting of a bomb in the house of any Israeli policeman who also fights with the IDF. I do not.

And how dare you call me a Jew hater when you so determinately defile and debase the Jewish tradition. You sir are a blight on the Jewish legacy, in fact you are one of those rare individuals I do not even regard as Jewish. I hate what you represent, I hate the bigotry and racism that allows you to rejoice in the bombing of this man and his family, but most of all I hate the continued occupation and the toll of Palestinian children to feed your blood lust.

Finally I hate what my country has become, a supporter of a regime so determined not to find a resolution to this cycle of Palestinian deaths, of war crimes and war criminals, of evil.

Singer

I saw a word to describe your behaviour.

Shrill

I quoted the two FPA statements you published. One critical of Hamas and one critical of The Israelis. I showed how you downplayed the Israeli Attack Force criticism when quite obviously your own FPA quotes portrayed the Israel behaviour as many times worse than that of Hamas.

Now you try and slime your way out the predicament your foolish article put you in.

And you say I have no credibility.

Shrill Davy Shrill.

And mate calling people Jew Haters is only going to cause irrational people to try to prove you right.

You really are making things worse for Jewish people everywhere.

Ahhhh Spqr

At last you have found one of the 13% of Israelis who don't support slaughtering Gazan kids. Well done.

And get this point clear. Judaism is only criticized for the emphasis the current crop of Israeli Jews place on the violence and vengeance passages in their books. Just like the terrorist Islamists. It's just that the Israelis are currently better armed.

Moderate Jews and Muslims put emphasis on the peace and merciful passages in their books.

Sadly 87% of Israelis support the violence and vengeance on display in Gaza. I doubt very much whether 87% of Mid East Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism.

They probably support the Palestinians in their struggle against the blockade and the land stealing and the oppression. That sentiment now seems shared by a growing proportion of the west.

Ozzie,

'My God, I have not been following this conflict much, however after reading this thread I decided to google images for "gaza children"
How does Israel get away with some of the most shocking war crimes I have seen?'

Compare those pictures of dead Palestinian children with how hysterical Jews get when someone insults them on a Sydney bus. The scary thing is that they are absolutely serious. They honestly think the Palestinians are untermenschen who should be eradicated. Just look at Comical Dave's jordanispalestine.blogspot.com. He has already wiped them off the map. The Israeli armed forces are doing the rest.

#SteeleRedux

I repeat - Badran Senior apparently was not a Hamas civilian whose house had been targeted indiscriminately - as the media had led us to believe - which puts a different perspective entirely on this story.

That conclusion has seen you erupt into a lather of hatred and an unprecedented personal attack on me.

Apropos the Al Qassam Brigades:

"Khaled Al-Azbat, an operations planner in the Qassam Brigades, told Al-Ahram Weekly that the commander [Al-Deif]had managed to reshape the Brigades in the manner of a modern army, with formations and lines of command very like the standing armies one finds in the region. There are divisions ranging from battalions, companies and platoons to special operations forces to armaments units. He has even developed a form of military academy with a department for military studies, research and planning. That was five years ago. But 14 years ago, he laid the foundations for manufacturing weapons for the resistance and, specifically, rockets after it had become increasingly difficult to smuggle them into Gaza. According to Al-Azbat, Al-Deif took advantage of the Arab Spring period to engineer a qualitative shift in Hamas’s armament capacities, which Israel is currently targeting, “though it will never succeed in destroying them, no matter how hard it tries.” He also applied the lessons derived from the resistance in the war in Lebanon, and benefited from Iranian technologies in manufacturing arms in spite of international restrictions....

... The Palestinian scholar Mohammed Abu Shaar, speaking to the Weekly from Gaza, said that Al-Deif is the military brain of the so-called war council in Gaza, which is made up of most military branches. In addition, he currently commands at least 25,000 fighters. “Al-Deif remains unidentifiable even within Hamas circles, apart from his comrades in arms. This is necessary for security reasons,” Abu Shaar said."
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/108498/World/Region/PROFILE-AlQassam-Brigades-Mohammed-AlDeif.aspx

Al Qassam is a prescribed terrorist organisation in Australia.

Stick to discussing the facts - and not me. It will do wonders for your blood pressure.

#Poirot

Israel has razed Gaza?

Shouldn't the death toll be 200000 or more?

#Ozzie

Can forget you having any objectivity after this exchange:

"Jay,
What I am saying is that in all wars, people get treated terribly. Again and again it happens. Later on, we usually have the stories told by the winning side. These will always always be biased. Certainly what the germans did was terrible. However, there are endless programs on the events of WW2, which are painted in a simple black and white nature. What one side did was absolutely disgraceful and the other side was totally innocent. I have a friend who's parent was in a concentration camp. They were not Jewish but as you know there were many other groups in these camps besides the Jews, often ignored in many comments. My friends sisters were killed by the Germans. Her parent has no respect for what the Germans did during the war, however she also has the same amount of distain for how the Jews treated many others around them. She saw many others die around her because the Jews would not help them. Because of how she saw the Jews acting during these times, she will never trust a Jewish person since. Basically I am saying what the Germans did was terrible, but what many other groups did was also terrible.
Now today, because of political correctness, people of Jewish descent appear to be treated unequally. If there is any legitimate criticism of the Israeli state or Jews, they will often scream discrimination in an attempt to squash genuine discussion."
Posted by ozzie, Sunday, 10 November 2013 11:35:54 AM

"It's no wonder that the Jewish community is so sensitive to criticism when people like Ozzie feel they can say what he has just said. I've tossed-up whether to delete it or not, and have decided to leave it there. It demonstrates just how despicable people in this ostensibly civilised country can be, and justifies me publishing David Singer as often as he wants to submit."

Posted by GrahamY, Sunday, 10 November 2013 1:58:03 PM

Singer, what part of your lobotomised soul do I have to reach to let you know that there is not another perspective here. It doesn't depend on the extent of this man's involvement if any in the resistance as to whether there is justification for bombing the family home and killing and maiming his children, it is evil, a war crime, and should disgust any normal human being.

As to supposedly targeting a particular mosque in order to kill reistance fighters this is what your lot of butchers got up to in the space of 6 hours on the Friday/Saturday got up to on the day he was killed;

10:30 on Friday, 08 August 2014, an Israeli drone fired a missile at al-Nour al-Mohammedi Mosque, - Ibrahim Zuhair Dawawsa, 10, was killed

01:00 on Saturday, 09 August 2014, an Israeli warplane launched a missile at Kamel Ghaben Mosque in Fad'ous area in Beit Lahia.  The mosque was destroyed.

02:00, an Israeli warplane launched a missile at Hassan Salama Mosque.  The mosque was destroyed.
 
03:30 an Israeli drone fired a missile at al-Qassam Mosque in al-Nussairat refugee camp.  A few minutes later, an Israeli warplane launched a missile at the mosque and destroyed it.  Three members of a Palestinian armed group were killed.
 
03:40, an Israeli drone fired a missile at al-Shuhada Mosque in al-Nussairat refugee camp.  The mosque was damaged.
 
03:50, an Israeli drone fired a missile at Nayef Abu Middain Mosque in al-Boreij refugee camp.  The mosque was damaged.

The truth is the IDF weren't targeting him that night instead they were systematically performing scorched earth on Gaza's mosques. These are acts of pure retribution on these hapless people by destroying their places of worship.

You think I'm angry? Damned right I am. Most thinking people should be. The IDF have delivered terror on a scale that should directly label them as terrorist deserving of our outright condemnation.

Dane wrote

"Compare those pictures of dead Palestinian children with how hysterical Jews get when someone insults them on a Sydney bus."

I think that Dane has an interesting perspective that highlights the clear double standard that applies to Jews and Muslims.

When talking about the "oppression" of "Palestinians", people like Dane create a false analogy by suggesting that this small section of humanity he calls "Palestinians" are the victims of a world wide plot by "Jews." The nasty Jews in the world are picking on this poor sub section of humanity that just happens to live in Palestine.

A more accurate assessment would see him admit that this is a fight to control a territory that involves world wide "plots" by both Muslims and Jews. The Muslims will not accept the re emergence of another religion within Dar es Salaam, and the Jews need a country of their own to feel safe in. This is a war of ethnic cleansing where two sides seek to ethnically cleanse each other. Therefore, there is moral equivalence. I won't denounce the Israeli side just because they are winning. And I think that the Israeli method of ethnic cleansing by building settlements and gradually squeezing out the Muslims, is far more humane than the usual Muslim methods of using mass executions, gang rape and enslavement of female captives, beheadings, and crucifixions now on display in Syria and Iraq.

Who is right and who is wrong, depends upon your point of view. My view is that however much I may hold some hostility to Jews myself for buggering up my country through multiculturalism, I much prefer Jews to Muslims. I consider the Jewish need for a homeland to be a better reason to control Israel/Palestine than the Muslim need to deny any religion from re-establishing itself within land that they have conquered through military force.

Spare me the crap about "Palestinian children". We in the west have done the same thing to German children and Japanese children, because it was a matter of our dead children, or their dead children

Lego

The comments Graham Y made about ozzie apply equally to you.

You are full of hate.

Why do you accept ethnic cleansing, the killing of innocents and collective punishments as ok?

Do you realize you justify retribution? Are you going to be consistent when the boot is on the other foot?

From Graham's comments"

"....However, there are endless programs on the events of WW2, which are painted in a simple black and white nature. What one side did was absolutely disgraceful and the other side was totally innocent...."

True.....which is why folks should think twice before they say things akin to: "Well Hamas are firing homemade rockets.....Gazans deserve what they get in retribution."

Has Israel treated Gazans fairly - or has it shunted them into a forty km long ghetto and blockaded them there?

Why would a people who have been treated like that - who are powerless in almost every way that could enhance their situation - fire homemade rockets at their aggressors?

Why, when Hamas handed over power, would Israel continue to frustrate and stymy agreements?

As Graham says...nothing is black and white.

Without a doubt the most one-eyed, venom spitting posters throughout the threads have been the anti-Jew lobby (Yes despite the presence that they are only criticizing Israeli policy --if you scratch them you find they are anti-Jewish all the way through).

More often than not all you get from such posters will be little more than putdowns of the article writer or poster. Or in case of Steele, repeat,repeat, repeat of long debunked claims.

However, I will make one honorable mention -- Poirot, who runs with the anti-Jewish crowd is sounding a liiiiiitle bit more even-handed on these last couple of threads. No doubt because I pricked what remain of her conscience with this comment <<Just a thought: how many times have you eeeeeeeeeever critised the excesses of Islam? I'm betting its a nice round figure ...like zero!>> http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6527#194490 And I am happy to take full credit for her improved performance.

To Julianutter.

I am not full of hate. You have me mixed up with the average Muslim.

I do not see ethnic cleansing as an absolute evil. It can be an absolute evil An example would be Ghengis Khan's edict that the entire populations within 500 miles of the Mongol Empire must be exterminated to protect his empire. But ethnic cleansing can also be used to separate two warring tribes, or even get rid of a tribe that really is a threat to the existence of a peaceful and progressive tribe. An example would be what Europe will face in the years to come as to whether it becomes Muslim or drives the Muslims out. Serbia has already come to face that reality in Kosovo and the Serbs are laughing at the Euros and Australia for our accommodation with a religion which wants to destroy us.

I have already been a victim of collective punishments by people like you. I am a gun owner who was collectively punished by the Howard government for the Port Arthur massacre. My fellow gun owners and myself were judged to be untrustworthy and punished by having our semi autos taken away because of what we might have do with them. So save me the crocodile tears.

I am a great believer in retribution where appropriate, and also forgiveness where appropriate.

I am sure that the boot will eventually be on the Muslim foot because of misplaced tolerance, complete ignorance, wishful thinking that Muslims are just like us, immigration, and birth rate differentials. And I hope that you suffer because of it, because you deserve it.

Obviously Lego you prefer the dark age vengeful god of your Jewish mates.

The western god abhors retribution and tells westerners to love their enemies and to judge no one.

That is what we do.

You'd take us all back a few thousand years. Just like Singer and all the other pigheaded subscribers to the violent and hate filled passages of their unreformed book of rules.

You Lego are a Muslim Hater.

'And I hope that you suffer because of it, because you deserve it.'
What you condone me being ethnically cleansed or merely re-educated or liquidated or gassed because I don't adhere to the religion that promulgates the criminal actions you support?

I see.

Or do you hate me and wish me ill because I see things differently to you.

Aren't these the current fate of the Gazans.

Those attitudes and behaviours don't fit in with our western tolerance. So why do you want us to change? Why don't you just go where you can share your attitudes with those of a similar mind instead of trying to pollute our world with institutionalised evil.

Yep Tel Aviv and forced conscription into the Israeli Defence Force for you. You'd do well with all those precision munitions. You'd fit in killing innocent kids.

And my god still loves you Lego and so do I but we both abhor your attitudes and behaviours.

#SteeleRedux

You state - in relation to Nabil Badran:

"Singer, what part of your lobotomised soul do I have to reach to let you know that there is not another perspective here. It doesn't depend on the extent of this man's involvement if any in the resistance as to whether there is justification for bombing the family home and killing and maiming his children, it is evil, a war crime, and should disgust any normal human being."

Have you had a lobotomy that has caused you to forget that none of Badran's children was killed?

Thanks for this further information as to where terrorist Badran met his death:

"03:30 an Israeli drone fired a missile at al-Qassam Mosque in al-Nussairat refugee camp. A few minutes later, an Israeli warplane launched a missile at the mosque and destroyed it. Three members of a Palestinian armed group were killed."

Yes - Badran was one of those "three members of a Palestinian armed group" who were killed.

Thank you for pointing out the number of mosques that were damaged or destroyed that night.

Your following conclusions are unsupported by any evidence whatsoever:

"The truth is the IDF weren't targeting him that night instead they were systematically performing scorched earth on Gaza's mosques. These are acts of pure retribution on these hapless people by destroying their places of worship."

Perhaps the following article and video might help you to understand why you are so wrong - if your Jew hatred has not completely blinded you.:

http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/04/27/gaza-tunnels-discovered-rafah-mosque/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSH-rguCMp8

Of course getting back to your lobotomy - none of this would have happened and a lot of Gazans would still be alive and uninjured today had Hamas agreed to the original cease fire proposed on 16 July or had Hamas not broken any of the 10 cease fires agreed since that date.

Seems as though Hamas - with the backing and sympathetic support of yourself and the other Jew haters posting to my article - wants to continue putting Gazans through this horrific ordeal.

You are a bunch of pathetic hypocrites.

Julianutter.

I read a book by a Jewish woman from Austria called "The Nazi Officers Wife". In that book, she recounts how astonished she was by the fact that the Nazi's in Austria had made it entirely clear that they intended to get rid of the Jews, one way or the other, and that most Jews laughed it off. Like yourself, they were totally in denial about the fact that a large group of people had an ideology which clearly stated it's intention to exterminate them.

I hate any ideology which clearly proclaims it's intention to exterminate me unless I conform to it's ideology. The Islamic ideology quite clearly states that it is on a mission for world domination and it is a religion with a scripture that justifies the killing anybody who opposes that mission. The authority to kill people who oppose it, or even criticise it, is right there in black and white in the Koran, the Suras and the Hadiths. Even Islam's creator Mohammad was doing 1400 years ago what Boko Haram , Al Shabbab, Al Qaida, and ISIS is doing right now.

I admire the Christian religion for it's pacifist and humanitarian ideology because it is a force which has moderated violence in the western world in the last 400 years. The same can not be said of Islam. Islam intends to exterminate you and you are stupid enough to defend it because some non existent God has told you that people should not be judged. Human beings, my dear nutter, judge each other every day. We judge whether people are trustworthy, devious, greedy, altruistic, selfish, immature, responsible, or dangerous, because it is essential that we do so to interact with them.

But like a Muslim, you ascribe to an ideology which puts a mental boundary on your thinking. And when a group of people who really are dangerous, and who really do wish to exterminate you or force you to live under their dysfunctional ideology, you switch off your brain and stop thinking because your non existent God commands it.

You know all you blokes who sing the praises of the Israeli violence have attracted to your ranks a bloke who supports ethnic cleansing.

Now if you care to read the circumstances where this bloke thinks ethnic cleansing is OK you will quickly realize he would naturally think the ethnic cleansing undertaken by Hitler in Europe would be OK.

Does that make you somewhat want to question what attracts someone with that attitude to side with you. If he supported my view I would quickly bring him to account.

Are you all so stupidly dumbed down by the propaganda that you cannot think for youselves and castigate him for his attitudes?

You've attracted people who are apparently Holocaust supporters to your ranks. Why?

Hey all you Israeli propagandists your efforts are being undermind by your support office in Tel Aviv.

Lately your mates hacked into my Facebook account and posted their latest propaganda. It is causing me much mirth as I re label and pass on their efforts.

Here are three examples.
1. A video of an Israeli jet in graphic detail using guided munitions to destroy a home in Gaza.
I relabel it killing women and kids in Gaza.

2. A video of Obama telling lies, claimed the Israeli voice.
I added text: this is the leader of the country who supports Israel more than anyone else. It takes real intelligence to abuse those who support you.

3. Scenes of a Muslim mass funeral where a headline says how funny it is.
It had been doctored to include one of the 20 bodies moving.
I added the Israelis show as much respect for the dead as they do for the living.

With stupidities like this you blokes wonder why you not only lost the war but are also wondering why you are losing support in the west and are being held up for ridicule. Which Singer labels that as Jew Hating. We call it idiot exposure by the intelligent.

Don't you blokes understand the sophistication of western users of the web. Nobody with any brains is going to be persuaded by the puerile scripts and videos the Tel Aviv propaganda office present.

Good on you blokes. My god and I still love you despite all your repulsive behaviour and hate mongering.

Imanutter:

You repeatedly use the term “ethnic cleansing” in relation to Israel’s actions against Islamic terrorism.

Here is a reality check. Please read because you won’t find these facts in the bible.

During the Germans’ occupation of much of Europe, they eliminated a total of 11 million civilians, including Jews, gypsies, Jehova’s Witnesses, homosexuals and disabled people. Approximately two thirds of the European Jewish population, and around three quarters of gypsies in Germany and Austria were exterminated.
That’s what I call Ethnic Cleansing.

During the 1940’s and 1950’s, around 700,000-800,000 Jews were forced to leave their homes in Muslim countries. From a flourishing population of around 1 million Jews in Arab countries throughout the Middle East back in 1948 (including Iran), the numbers are now less than 20,000.
That’s what I call Ethnic Cleansing.

Let's have a closer look at the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians at the hands of Israel:

In 1949 there were a little under 500,000 Arabs living in the West Bank. There are now over 2.5 million.
In 1949, the population of Gaza was a little over 80,000. Today it stands at just under 2 million.
Now that’s what YOU call Ethnic Cleansing.

I know it is almost impossible to reason with many kinds of religious people, Julianutter, because they can only think in terms of moral absolutes. Moral quandaries amd moral priorities are something they don't want to think about. Something must be absolutely right, or absolutely wrong.

You think that ethnic cleansing is absolutely wrong. "Thou shalt not ethnically cleanse" is carved in stone by your Abrahamic God. But your own God approved of ethnic cleansing when he told the Jews to go into the lands of the Middianites and "slaughter every man, woman, child, and their beasts, also".

But when God's son was born, you think that God grew up and stopped advocating ethnic cleansing. You believe he no longer approves of ethnic cleansing. God has not officially repented his sin, but as a Christian, I suppose you have forgiven Him anyway.

Now, you don't like ethnic cleansers, but you defend Muslims who are the world's foremost ethnic cleansers who's own holy scriptures advocate the use of ethnic cleansing. The Muslims think that God still believes in ethnic cleansing and their damned Koran is absolutely chock-a-block full of instructions from God to Muslims to ethnically cleanse anyone who is not a Muslim. "Kill them." "Chop off their heads." Strike off their finger tips." Chop off an arm and a leg from opposite sides of the body". "Expel them". "There is Jew hiding behin the tree, kill him."

Sometimes the Muslim version of your Abrahamic God, and His Prophet, get a little uncharacteristically humane and they say that it is OK for Jews and Christians to live under Islam, provided that Muslims humiliate them constantly and force them to pay usurious taxes. The purpose of that is ethnic cleansing in a more humane way. Force them to become Muslims by making them an offer they can't refuse.

Now, the moral quandary for you is, is it right or wrong to ethnically cleans people who say quite bluntly that they quite seriously intend to ethnically cleans you and your people?

Lego

you can jabber on all you like but you are a racist who condones ethnic cleansing. Your stated terms for support would have seen you cheering on the killing of Jews under Hitler. Just as you are now cheering for the slaughter of Muslims by Jews.

You should reflect on your attitudes. Read the hate you have spouted.

v dub

'ETHNIC CLEANSING

is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

ETHNIC CLEANSING

is usually accompanied with the efforts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 18 August 2014 11:05:40 PM'

If you think what the Jews of Israel are doing in Palestine does not fall within the scope of this definition you are blind.

It has the same intent as the final solution. That was the ridding of the Jews from Europe. Here the Israeli Jews are attempting to rid Palestine of Palestinians. Just take a look at the successive maps of the areas Israel has kicked out or murdered Palestinians. Numbers make no difference it is the intent which is the same.

I could see you lining up justifying the attitudes of the behaviours of the likes of Hitler's murderers and Lego.

Can there be an occasion when ethnic or religious "cleansing" could be
acceptable ?
For example, if Australia suffered several terrorist attacks causing
significant deaths, would it be reasonable to deport the whole moslem
population back to their countries of origin ?
Don't complicate your opinion with those born here, just the principle.

Well done Julianutter. I knew you would dodge the question. I love it when my opponents behave just as I predicted they will.

Forced to pick sides on a moral quandary about ethnic cleansing, you responded by sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "Nananananana". Thank you for proving to all of our readers, that the premise I stated in my last post is true. My premise was, that many religious people such as your good self can only think in terms of moral absolutes. And that moral quandaries and moral priorities don't even register on their perception of reality.

That is why you are losing this debate. People know you have something to hide when you won't answer a critical question that is reasonable. You can huff and puff all you want about the total immorality of ethnic cleansing. But unless you have the mental capacity to understand that moral shades of grey exist, and that most moral questions can never be black and white, then you are going to be perceived by any impartial observer as a narrow minded bigot who refuses to take off his ideological blinkers, and use critical thinking to examine all sides of a contentious problem.

Finally, you are misrepresenting my position again. I have already admitted that the Jews are ethnically cleansing the Muslims in Palestine/Israel. But the question that you are too frightened to even contemplate is, is it wrong to ethnically cleanse people who publically declare that they have every intention of ethnically cleansing you and your people, and who have historically been doing just that to your own people, and to so many other people, for 1400 years?

Answer the damned question or leave the arena. Because your refusal to answer it indicates that you can understand that what the Israelis are doing is self defence, but you just don't want to admit it. Better to keep endorsing an untruth and parade around on the moral high ground with a chorus of singing angels behind you, than admit that your precious moral absolute is not absolute.

Nutter

Thank you for explaining Ethnic Cleansing to us (twice now), my Google was apparently broken preventing me from finding the definition myself.
Now that you’ve graciously educated us yet again as to the meaning of the term, could you please elaborate how exactly “the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity” applies to the Palestinian Arabs, given that over the last 65 years their numbers increased 5-fold in the West Bank and almost 25-fold in Gaza?

In less than a decade, Hitler managed to reduce the population of Jews, Gypsies and other groups I mentioned earlier by around 70%. Given another decade he would have finished the job.

Over several decades, Arab states managed to reduce their Jewish population by 99.9%. They have already finished their job.

Over 65 years, Israel’s “ethnic cleansing” of Palestinian Arabs resulted in an *increase* of the Palestinian population by between 500% and 2,500%. If we allow those wicked Israelis to continue their ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians with the same vigour and determination they've been showing to-date, in another 67 years the number of Palestinian Arabs will increase from the current 4.5 million to more than 50 million. Clearly if there’s one thing the Palestinians need not fear, it’s ethnic cleansing by Israel, don’t you agree? Or are you so blind with hatred that you cannot see the obvious difference between real ethnic cleansing and the contrived hysterical cries brought about by Israel bashers?

Lego

If me absolutely condemning ethnic cleansing means you see me as on 'parade around on the moral high ground with a chorus of singing angels behind (me)'... then that is grand as it is exactly the truth.

My answer to your question has always been:
I don't condone ethnic cleansing under any circumstance.
I have not changed that.

Your problem is you cannot accept that as the only reasonable answer a moral based person can give. You expect me to compromise my morality as you have. I refuse to do that. So your abuse is because my beliefs are different to yours. Isn't that the problem with the dark age mid eastern religions you support?

You want me to slither down to your compromised morality. I won't.

Ahhhh vdub

There is another example of your lack of logic or is it an example of your famous pragmatism. Perhaps a reading of Mathematics or Philosophy would improve your lack of intellect as shown by your ineptitude at logical thinking.

You are saying Israel isn't conducting ethnic cleansing because it is failing in it's endeavours in carrying it out.

Somewhat an illogical position, definitely an own goal and typically Israeli on more than one level.

Christ you are good for a laugh.

My god forgives you both and we both still love you.

Jnut said;
I don't condone ethnic cleansing under any circumstance.

Even if they are killing you ?

If the IS came and settled in Australia, you would let them stay ?

If you condemn ethnic cleansing in every circumstance, Julianutter, then if a particular group of people began ethnic cleansing you and your people, you could never stop them. You could protest while they herded you and your people in front of the open pits where your bodies would fall after they shot you, but being exterminated while looking martyred is the act of a fool.

Perhaps you could get some breathing space by defeating them in battle? But if their birth rate is higher than your own people's, it is just a matter of time before they try again. And again. And again.

You could try assimilating them, but if their ideology implacably demands your people's extermination, then that is going to get you nowhere either.

The only options you have left are to agree to be cleansed, or cleanse the cleansers. That is the problem facing the Israelis, and it is just a matter of time before the Europeans and the Australians face the same problem.

Salmon Rushdie had a fatwa put on him by the Ayatollah Khomeini who ordered that he should be murdered. What you refuse to contemplate is that every non Muslim in the world has a similar fatwa put on them by Islam, and it is in all the hadiths, Suras, and the Koran. Accept Islam or die.

Now, I wish that the Muslims no harm, but that sentiment must be reciprocated. As far as I am concerened, they can live in self imposed ignorance and poverty forever. They can stone their women to death, circumcise their girls, kill their homosexuals, murder their apostates, marry little girls, have four wives, and chop each others heads off to their hearts content.

But they are not going to impose their dysfunctional way of life on me or my people by force. And if my people have to ethnically cleanse the Muslim ethnic cleansers, who openly declare their intention of ethnically cleansing my people, then I do not see anything wrong with doing whateer is necessary to defend myself and my people.

The post above by LEGO demonstrates why Singer must be given his marching orders.

Singer's mischievous game with the readership of OLO is leading to dangerous extremism such that the AFP should be called in to checkout the OLO readership and the political leanings of its publisher!

What some people on here do not understand is that we ARE at war.
War was declared some 1300 years ago on the rest of the world.
Convert to Islam or die !
They just bide their time between attempts, but sooner or later they
will make another attempt to invade Europe.
If they have oil money behind them it will be a major war.
By that I mean on the scale of the 1939-1945 war.

Best we have it now while they are comparatively weak. That won't happen.
No one will do anything until they invade Greece again.
They might well attack Israel again but if they are too powerful then
Israel won't wait to have their heads chopped off, they will turn the
IS into glass. Would that be ethnic cleansing ? Yes I guess it would.

What else could they do IJnut ?

Make peace

Sorry Iamnut, but Allah forbids it !

Dear Bazz,

You surprise me with your comments.
I would have expected more from you.
Why are you blaming a particular religion
for what some zealots make out of it.
I would have thought that it is debatable
whether one can blame any religion for its
mis-use. Be it Islam, Christianity, or Judaism.

As for blaming Hamas for -
"humiliating and manipulating world media"

How on earth can that be taken seriously -
when the Jewish lobby is so powerful globally.
But of course to criticise the actions of Israel
one is immediately accused of anti-Semitism.

However as Thomas Friedman wrote:

"Criticising Israel is not anti-Semitic and saying so
is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and
international sanction - out of all proportion to
any other party in the Middle East - is anti-Semitic,
and not saying so is dishonest."

The fact is that Israel is the largest recipient of US
foreign aid, and is widely regarded as one of the
world's strongest military powers, with its arsenal of
nuclear weapons.

Hamas manipulating world media?

If only that were true - and we could get a more humane
picture of the Palestinian side of the conflict.

These sort of finger-pointing articles that Mr Singer
regularly puts out - don't
achieve anything constructive. His is the sort of
arguments that leave little room for serious
discussion.

Since when is self defence "extremism", David G?

Prior to WW2, Churchill was condemned by people who think like you as a "warmonger" because he stated the obvious, that war with Germany would come, so we had better start preparing for it.

The western world is now in a state of war with Islam, but in the same way that appeasers and Jews in Europe were in denial about Nazi Germany's intentions, people like yourself are in denal about Islam and it's intentions.

Islam is a totalitarian ideology on a mission to conquer the world and it makes no secret about that. The amazing thing is that it's intent to take over the world and to kill anybody who's opposes it's spread, criticise it, or even leave it, is all laid out in it's own version of "Mein Kampf". Yet you whistle, pretend not to see, and make excuses for the people who have an ideology that you must join in their insanity or they will kill you. Your concept that there are "moderate" Muslims and a few "extremist" Muslims who give the "moderates" a bad name, makes as much sense as saying the same thing about Nazis.

It is just amazing how educated and supposedly intelligent people always become advocates for ideologies which have failed everywhere. Socialism, multiculturalism, and now Islam, is defended by people like yourself when history has proven that these ideologies have produced nothing but ruined economies, totalitarians state, and societies riven by internal divisions at war with one another.

Israel is the front line of the western world against advancing Islam. It is the only nation state now actively shooting back at the people who openly declare their intention in their own scriptures to convert us, or kill us. I really admire the Israelis for that and I support them all the way. The bottom line is, that it is entirely morally right to ethnically cleanse people who have openly declared their intention of ethnically cleansing you, and who's everyday actions confirm that they are very serious about doing just that.

Lego

Israelis wear our clothes but their hearts wear a dark veil.

This is how Hamas governs and implements justice --- and this is what imajulianutter & Steele have been defending ---take a long look, it reads like an incident of SS retribution during WWII, but it is common practice in Hamasland.

<<Gaza militants Friday gunned down 18 alleged spies for Israel in an apparent attempt to plug security breaches and deter others...Hamas media said the shootings signaled the start of a new crackdown, under the rallying cry of "choking the necks of the collaborators." It was the largest number of suspected informers killed in a single day under Hamas rule.>>

http://www.mail.com/int/news/world/3055378-hamas-kills-18-suspected-informers-to-deter-leaks.html#.1272-stage-mostviewed1-2

As one newspaper said in reference to ISIS --PURE EVIL!

Little wonder you dont see any Palestinian versions of Gideon Levy, eh!

I am surprised Foxy that you cannot see past the end of your nose.
Islam is an all encompassing belief.
It is religion, politics, economics all wrapped up in one cover and
is described in a book not open to interpretation.

There are no doubt some who are moslems that are not fanatical but when
push comes to shove they will protect the fanatics.
Why should we have to sort them out ?

They say we must convert or die.
What do you say to them when they put that to you ?

"Peace Brother" ?

There is a whole town in Iraq facing that question right now.
As they are ethnic Turks and Shites they may not get the option.
As far as the Jews are concerned they were the first victims of Islam
and 1300 years later they are still threatened by Islam.
Are you surprised they don't give a damn what people like you say ?

Foxy, you are totally blinded by your politics.

Dear Bazz,

Blinded by my politics?

And what politics are those exactly?

That's such an old chestnut that is used
when people claim to give a hearing to other
views, but then are shocked and offended to
discover that there are in fact - other views.

It is high time that the US, and the International
Community stand up and say - this is not the way to
behave. Israel does not have the right to act
unilaterally, it does not have the right to wreck
havoc and destroy the prospects for a peaceful
solution. Israel has been calling the shots since
1967, always without Palestinian consultation and
clearly believes that the US will support it no
matter what.

Antony Loewenstein put it so well in his book,
"My Israel Question," when he stated:

"The Kalima vision is of a concrete wall, with Jews
on one side and as many Arabs as possible on the other.
Sooner or later, Israel and the Palestinians will have
to meet face-to-face, listen to each other's
grievances and negotiate with honesty. Only then - and on
the condition that both Israel and the Palestinian state
achieve safety and security - will this conflict be
resolved. Neither side has a monopoly on suffering, but only
one party has the power to end the occupation and to
recognise that Israel and Palestine are historically
destined to share the same homeland."

SPQR

You are an outright liar.

Show us all where I have ever supported violence by Israel or Hamas?

You are twisting things typical of Israeli propagandists.

Liar.

#Foxy

I am afraid Lowenstein has got it very wrong.

The PLO has the power to end the occupation by:
1 agreeing to recognise Israel as the Jewish State.
2 abandoning the demand to allow millions of Arabs to live in Israel
3 agreeing to allow Jews to live in a Palestinian Arab State just like 1.2 million Arabs presently live in Israel.

Their refusal to do so means no third State in Palestine - additional to Israel and Jordan - will be created for the first time in recorded history.

The Palestinian Arabs have rejected solutions proposed in 1922, 1937, 1947, between 1948-1967, 2000/1, 2005, 2008.

Sad to say they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

imajulianutter,

<<Show us all where I have ever supported violence by... Hamas?>>

If you cry fowl (or act like one) each time one boxer delivers a low blow but ignore the indiscretions of the other -- few would have trouble determining which side you are barracking for!

Besides, you even use the same slogans as the Hamas cheer squad -see here: << Israeli propagandists. Liar>>

Dear David,

Your version of events differs greatly from those
of Antony Loewenstein and Dr Ilan Pappe,
and many others who have extensively
researched the period. You espouse the
Zionist myths and deny the hisory and pain of the
other side. In your take - many facts remain hidden.

All I can do is politely suggest that you do your
research on the topic. I don't want to waste your
time or mine.

Until then I have nothing further to say to you.

Foxy,
You cannot excuse yourself by saying that is an old chestnut.
Chestnuts are frequently true.
>and negotiate with honesty.

The moslems are commanded by Allah to kill the Jews.
What is there to negotiate about ?

Dear SPQR,

Talking about slogans -

Here's the original Zionist slogan:

"A land without a people
For a People without a land!"

Nice!

And there's more from writer Noam Chomsky,
"Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on Israel's War
Against the Palestinians."

"Hamas is regularly described as 'Iranian-backed Hamas,
which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.'
One will be hard put to find something like -
'Democratically elected Hamas, which has long been
calling for a two-state settlement in accord with the
International consensus,' blocked for over 30 years by
the US and Israel. All true, but not a useful
contribution to the Party Line, hence dispensable."

Foxy

The Muslim version of: "A land without a people For a People without a land!" is, the whole world belongs to Allah, and if you are a non-Muslim we aim to take your land.

hey liar

So you cannot show where support any violence. And you ignore everything I have said, and so being typically pigheaded and unable to change anything in your beliefs you won't accept you are wrong and apologise.

Only a blind fool would choose not see I abhor all violence. Yet because of your blind belief in Israel you, just like Singer, see anyone who questions Israel's commitment to violence, as being Jew Hating.

Gee of what does refusing to change remind you?

The cycles of rejection, violence and vengeance bought about because of those dark age middle eastern religions which can never reform?

Both of them. Liar.

Yeah, SPQR.

The Sydney based "Call to Islam" magazine, which Keyser Trad contributed too, said that Australians have no right to prevent Muslims coming to Australia who want to come because it is "Allah's land."

Maybe Foxy faces Mecca when she prays?

Oh, and Julainutter, your last post was racist. And very short too. I presume you are running out of steam? Run along and try to influence the children because your opponents here on OLO are way ahead of you.

Dear LEGO,

No, I don't face Mecca when I pray.

But I do sway back and forth.

I hope that helps you.

lego

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

It suits you.

Foxy, HAMAS just stood 19 Palestinian men up against a wall and shot them to death for "treason." Their crime was that they were helping the Israelis by telling them where the tunnels were , and where the HAMAS bosses homes where. Why would they do that?

Would it be because these men realised that they and their homes and families were simply pawns in a power game for Muslim leaders who want to crush Israel at any cost? Would it not be reasonable to think that at least some Palestinians want partition and want to be left in peace? That they are sick and tired of war and can not do anything about it, because the Muslim leadership will never let them?

The present democratic choices that the Palestinians have are the PLO and HAMAS. Allah help any Palestinian who stood for peace with Israel. The PLO was so corrupt that some PLO officials were caught supplying the cement to the Israelis who were building the wall. HAMAS are totally ruthless and they began murdering every PLO official they could when they got into power. HAMAS and the PLO have now reached some accord. Could that accord have been reached because the Palestinians prefer the PLO to HAMAS because the PLO is not as psychotic and determined to provoke Israel as HAMAS?

Only yesterday, "The Australian" newspaper reported that a high official in HAMAS admitted that the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli teenagers was planned and executed by HAMAS all along. The hope was that it would provoke the Israelis into retaliating and that worked.

HAMAS knows it can never beat the Israelis militarily so it is on a PR offensive. It knows that there are a lot of muddle headed left wing "liberals" like your good self in the west who they can manipulate like puppets provided that they can show some blown up Palestinian children and point the finger at Israel.

imajulianutter

Do you have an anger management issue?

No Liar.

Why?

Maybe it is time for you to all return to the subject matter of my article - and not engage in discussions on other matters relating to the Israel - Hamas conflict in particular and the Israel- Arab conflict generally - which have no bearing on what I have written - but are deliberately intended by you to draw attention away from any consideration of the issues raised by me because of your inability to challenge anything appearing in my articles.

An excellent analysis of the irresponsibility of the media in reporting events in Gaza can be read in Forbes Magazine at the following link - backing up the thrust of my article - whose contents you have all done everything to avoid discussing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2014/08/21/the-media-intifada-bad-math-ugly-truths-about-new-york-times-in-israel-hamas-war/

Do any of the Jew-haters or self- hating Jews whose names appear with regularity - when posting irrelevant responses to articles I write - have the intellectual brainpower or the guts to try and refute anything appearing in this well researched and detailed article?

Try to stick to the subject matter of the article for once - and point out the inaccuracies or inconsistencies or conclusions with which you disagree.

Dear David,

Why do you accuse anybody who criticises Israel's
atrocious tactics in Gaza as a Jew-hater and those
who dare to point out things as being anti-Jewish.
That makes you appear irrational.
As for accusing the NY Times and other global media of
being "biased" and influenced by Hamas - Goodness
me - then the entire world media is suddenly
"biased" for reporting the truth of what Israel is
doing in Gaza.

Your words and actions will simply divide more
opinion against Israel. The entire world is waking
up to what's really going on there - and sympathy
is no longer with Israel. Wake-Up and cut out
the Zionist propaganda. No one is buying it
anymore except for the nuuters.

It's people like you who turn the communities against
Israel by your persistant propaganda.
Many people who were sitting on the
fence in this debate - are now definitely going against
Israel - and that is a fact. Your articles are not helping
your cause. Seriously.

Foxy

I understand you have not taken the time to read the Forbes article - or alternatively if you have - then you cannot find anything objectionable in it.

Trying to silence me will get you nowhere.

I know the truth hurts. If I upset you so much - don't read my articles.

Posting comments that have nothing to do with the subject matter of my articles is indicative of a wider agenda intended to delegitimise and denigrate Israel.

Stick to the subject matter of the article in question.

Likewise can we see your response to the Forbes article - even if you still refuse to respond to my article?

Dear David,

I did read the article.

However one doesn't judge from an article what a
newspaper's slant is. It's an accumulation of
things you see and what the track record is.
What the coverage is in favour of. What and how
frequently the coverage is. That gives you an
idea where the bias and tendency lies.

Having lived in the US for over ten years and
having observed the NY Times for decades - I've
always thought its reporting to be well balanced.

As a matter of fact American media has often been
criticised as being very much pro Israel in its
coverage of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
And The NY Times has been criticised for this
bias in the past.

However as I said - I've found The NY Times to be
balanced and so have it's readers and supporters.
The NY Times being one of the most widely read
newspapers in the US with a daily readership of over
3.9 million.

Perhaps that's why Gary Weiss has chosen to write this
recent article - being concerned about the paper
printing the facts of what's actually happening in Gaza.
Rather than towing the Israeli Party Line.

I don't buy into Mr Weiss's accusations of bias.
But I can only speculate about his reasons for his
recent article.

David singer, should we call you Muslim Hater or Gazan Hater or Arab Hater or Palestinian Hater or Westerner Hater?

Because you are doing exactly the same as your enemies and you are driven by the same extremist religious ideas of vengeance and violence as your enemies.

It is time you reassessed your basic religion and adopted the attitudes of your bible that mirror those of Christ and our western attitudes and practices.

Whenever you spout the Israeli propaganda and try to avoid any discussion of the root cause of all the violence in the mid east you are trying to corrupt our western ways and you are only promulgating future cyclical rounds of violence and vengeance.

Now tell me that my Christian based belief and practice of condemning all violence and promoting forgiveness and peacefulness is Jew Hating?

It is certainly the opposite of what you support and what you promote.

To Julainutter

Islam got started in Arabia when Mohammad beheaded 800 Jewish men who would not convert to his disgusting religion. Islam spread like a cancer throughout the Christian Middlle east because there were too many Christians like you who were reality denying pacifists and they were easy meat.

The Jews are not as silly as you Christians, probably because they know all about genocide. Christians may be easy to exterminate but Jews have a lot more fight in them. As I mentioned previously, if the Muslims come to dominate your society then you deserve every bit of what they give you. Interestingly, some of the most ardent opponents of the Muslims are Coptic Christians who have suffered under Islam and they hate the Muslims like the plague.

Tell a Coptic Christian from Egypt or Lebanon how nice the Muslims are, and he will laugh in your face.

Dear LEGO,

if you want to really know the facts about Israel
and the reasons for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
you need to do your research. Antony Loewenstein's
book, "My Israel Question," is a good place to start
on the history of how the state of Israel was
born and at what cost to the Palestinians. Start with page
79.

Giving us vitriol and bile does nothing for your credibility.
And subsequently you shall be ignored.
Surely you don't want that.
Also personal insults are no way to argue in any discussion.
It shows a small intellect. Avoid sweeping statements -
they're not logical. They make you appear to be arguing on
an emotional level rather than a mature, intelligent one.

Try again.

#Foxy

You state:

"Perhaps that's why Gary Weiss has chosen to write this
recent article - being concerned about the paper [New York Times]
printing the facts of what's actually happening in Gaza.
Rather than towing the Israeli Party Line."

1. Did you really read the Forbes article or only the first paragraph?

The article was not written by Gary Weiss - as you claim - but by Richard Behar.

2. How do you reconcile your unsubstantiated and generalised claim that the New York Times is printing the facts of what is actually happening in Gaza with these three quotes from Behar's article:

(a) "Proof of the use by Hamas of civilians as human shields has finally been ably exposed by reporters for media outlets in Finland, France, India, Italy, Japan, Russia, and others—but not by news organizations with greater resources at hand such as BBC, CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and numerous others."

(b) "Moreover, some, if not many, of the kids could also be fighters. Earlier this year, a handful of media outlets exposed Hamas military-training summer camps for kids aged 6-16 in Gaza. Did the Western press corps in Israel pay any heed? (Reuters and NBC News, to their credit, did a slideshow and photo blog, respectively. The New York Times didn’t even touch it, although its reporter Akram lives in Gaza and surely must know about the camps.)

(c) "Clearly, the preponderance of the evidence is that reporters have indeed been intimidated, and that there is a reason for the intimidation—Hamas has a lot to hide. The media, in other words, is part of the story. Yet this is a story that does not exist to the readers of the New York Times, which include the policymakers in Washington."

Quit speculating about Behar's motives and address the substance of his above claims demonstrating that the New York Times does not print the facts of what is actually happening in Gaza.

Yeah argue Singers points and ignore the root cause of the problem. That's what Singer wants. Then he doesn't have to justify his support for killing women and children, illegal occupations and land stealing.

Yeah go on argue about the gnats on the apes bottom. Forget about how the ape is tearing the civilised worlds decency to shreds by dealing with barbaric behaviour with barbaric behaviour.

We in the west have learned better than that. Our civilisation has grown and developed. The ones he and his enemies try to maintain seem to continually be at odds with others or within themselves and they suffer repeatedly for that.

Why doesn't Singer address the issues involved with that particular stupidity?

He can't. His book and the books of his enemies won't let them question ancient dogma.

The west did and still does question stupidity that leads to war, destruction and pointless death. Look at how we have grown and developed. You would think they would all ask why?

Oh no these imbeciles keep telling us we are wrong and won't survive.
Look at the disasters befallen generations of Jews and generations of Sunni and Shia Muslims.

They are all the bloody same and they all try to involve us in their nastiness.

'When will they ever learn?'

Nutter:

You claim that my logic is lacking, my math is lousy, yet you produce evidence for neither. Can you show where my math is failing? Are my numbers incorrect? How will reading more about mathematics change the numbers I posted?
Why is my position “somewhat” illogical? Any idea? Is it just something you read somewhere as a good retort?

I’m not holding my breath for any real answer from you, so far you’ve failed to answer any of my questions and I am under no illusion that you will start now. Your posts reveal your extreme fanaticism and narrow-mindedness, you replies indicate you read my posts according to what you want it to say, not what it actually says (in other words - completely wrong). Lack of intellect? You have a long way to climb up from your deep personal pit of ignorance before you can use this as criticism against anyone here, whatever their opinions are.

I’ve given you evidence that no ethnic cleansing is taking place, you obviously have no idea how respond to this other than telling me I should be reading more maths and philosophy. Thank you for this completely useless post. Let me ask you again: do you have any doubt that the Israelis could have ethnically cleansed the entire Gaza Strip by force in a matter of days if they really wanted to?

Stuck in an ancient biblical period as you are with no real knowledge of current world affairs, with nothing but poetry to guide you, I guess it’s too much to ask.

“'Jayb, sorry I don’t have a link to the material you’re after.'… Go on v dub tell him why not.”

Ummm…maybe because I haven’t searched for it? I give up, what’s your crazy theory? Let me guess, does it have anything to do with my math skills?

“…these imbeciles keep telling us we are wrong and won't survive. Look at the disasters befallen generations of Jews and generations of Sunni and Shia Muslims”

How are your fellow Christians doing in the Middle East? Surviving well? No disasters befalling them?

Dear David,

Kindly re-read my earlier post regarding my
own experiences with The New York Times over
decades. I mentioned Gary Weiss only in the
last paragraphs of that particular post.
The error in authorship does not change the
thrust of the points being made however, and I
stand by my position on the newspaper. I do not
accept the fact that The New York Times is
biased. And if you and Mr Behar feel that it is -
you perhaps need to ask yourself - Why?

Why would The New York Times suddenly turn against
Israel - as you claim they have done?

The UN Relief and Works Agency Commissioner-General
as well as the White House's open condemnation of
Israel's artillery strike on a UN Girls' school in
which sleeping children were killed appeared to be a
line in the sand for the international community.

Describing the shelling of the school sheltering 3,300
displaced Palestinians as "totally unacceptable and
totally indefensible" the White House said there was little
doubt it was Israeli artillery that hit the school.

It was one of the worst mass-casualty attacks of the three-
week was and the sixth time a UN school in Gaza had been
hit. Following the attack the UN Relief and Works Agency
Commissioner-General said:

"The world stands disgraced, this is an affront to all
of us, a source of universal shame!"

The Gaza Health Ministry says the Palestinian death toll
since fighting began is massive and the number of wounded
is over 9,000 and rising, while human-rights groups say
that 80 percent of the dead and injured are civilians.

Gaza's Housing Ministry's initial estimate on the damage
caused by the Israel Defence Forces' operations is about
$US4 billion ($4.3 billion) and that more than 5328 buildingd
had been destroyed.

Since the start of Operation Protective Edge, 61 IDF soldiers
have been killed.

The statistics speak for themselves.

Foxy, I applaud your efforts to drive some sense into the Singer's head (while bringing to our attention the current Israeli genocide and slaughter) but you need to appreciate that the Singer only listens to the anachronistic demons inside his own head.

You would have more chance of influencing a house brick to change itself than changing the Singer.

Suffice to say that ignoring the Singer's endless rants and deceitful propaganda is your only course of action if you want to retain your sanity!

#Foxy

You have failed to answer this question I put to you:

"How do you reconcile your unsubstantiated and generalised claim that the New York Times is printing the facts of what is actually happening in Gaza with these three quotes from Behar's article:

(a) "Proof of the use by Hamas of civilians as human shields has finally been ably exposed by reporters for media outlets in Finland, France, India, Italy, Japan, Russia, and others—but not by news organizations with greater resources at hand such as BBC, CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and numerous others."

(b) "Moreover, some, if not many, of the kids could also be fighters. Earlier this year, a handful of media outlets exposed Hamas military-training summer camps for kids aged 6-16 in Gaza. Did the Western press corps in Israel pay any heed? (Reuters and NBC News, to their credit, did a slideshow and photo blog, respectively. The New York Times didn’t even touch it, although its reporter Akram lives in Gaza and surely must know about the camps.)

(c) "Clearly, the preponderance of the evidence is that reporters have indeed been intimidated, and that there is a reason for the intimidation—Hamas has a lot to hide. The media, in other words, is part of the story. Yet this is a story that does not exist to the readers of the New York Times, which include the policymakers in Washington."

Quit speculating about Behar's motives and address the substance of his above claims demonstrating that the New York Times does not print the facts of what is actually happening in Gaza."

Answer this question please.

#DavidG

Your advice to Roxy is well grounded. If you cannot challenge anything raised in my articles - then simply do not respond.

#imajulianutter is a perfect example - now adding Moslem hatred to his/her well identified Jew - hatred credentials. Jews and Moslems are imbeciles according to his/her opinion. There are many opportunities for him/her and others engaging in the same conduct to state their views elsewhere on the net - such as:
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/palestinian-territory

Dear David,

There's an old agage:

"Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

And both you and Mr Behar are trying yo do precisely
that.

Until you both provide concrete evidence of your
claims - (with reliable information)
your inferences and suppositions can only be
taken as being ones of those on an ideological crusade.

To downplay Israeli violence and the reality of the
occupation and to focus on the supposed irrationality
and violence of the Palestinians only, and then claim
that the US and global media is biased - simply reflects
your own bias and attempts on this forum at manipulation.
It would be laughable if it wasn't so obvious.

As a form of blogging pointing fingers might be
endlessly satisfying for you.
But as a form of political expression,
its pretty hollow and out of tune with reality.

I shan't be responding to you any further. I have
no wish to continue to contribute to your crusade.

Your hebetude is stunning.
You're a virtuoso at Zionist propaganda.
I shall leave you to it.

Dear David G.,

Thank You for your adivce.

I've taken it on board.

Hey Vdub

I had a great laugh at you last post.
Mathematics are pure logic. It underlines our western ways. It is usually a precursor to or parallel with the logic inherent in discussion of philosophy.
It has very little to do with arithmetic. As you so naively try to equate.

You illogical thinking was clear in your post where you claimed Israel was not conducting a genocide because it had failed in its genocide.

Now you tell me it has the means to be successful in a genocide in Gaza but it hasn't because it did not want to.

The world is watching and would crucify the Jews of Israel if they attempted that course in Gaza.

The world is now awakening to the Genocide Israel us undertaking in the West Bank
Look at the maps.
Israel will be held to account for its actions there. That is where your next propaganda war will be waged and lost.

You've lost in Lebanon and Gaza. Logic says the Palestinian's won in Lebanon and Gaza. Logic says the next front will be the West Bank and then the restoration the original borders proposed pre 1947.

Israel cannot win. Logic says so.
Your book might back Israel claim but it is illogical on so many other claims ...
You are making yourself look more and more foolish Vdub.

I doubt you shall contribute anything further. You have proven you haven't the intellect.

I doubt you understand the power of intellect. It is usually based in the use of higher commonsense and truth.
You exercise scant understanding of either.

I and my forgiving god still loves you Vdub. We both abhor your lack of decency and support for genocides.

@ DavidG, surely you're joshing.

David Singer exposed Foxy's one track, one-eyed agenda big time with this little parry:

<< [Foxy] Did you really read the Forbes article or only the first paragraph?

The article was not written by Gary Weiss - as you claim - but by Richard Behar>>

LOL

Dear David G.,

The following link may be of interest.
It shows the current pressure that is
being put on Israel. This will increase
as global opinion grows stronger including
from Holocaust survivors which include
famous Jewish people. I wonder if they will
also be labelled as "Jew Haters," or
"Self-Hating Jews," as well?

http://newmatilda.com/2014/08/25/300-holocaust-families-sign-letter-protest-israels-war-gaza

Nutter Nutter:

I did not expect you to respond to my questions with any rational answers, yet you managed to surprise me with another significant decline in the intelligence of your posts. I didn’t think it was possible.

“Mathematics are pure logic. It underlines our western ways. It is usually a precursor to or parallel with the logic inherent in discussion of philosophy. It has very little to do with arithmetic. As you so naively try to equate”

Other than the usual rubbish about “out western ways” again, you are of course completely wrong. In the world that I live in, arithmetic is actually a part of mathematics. In your make-believe world, maths appears to be part of philosophy. This is fascinating. Is geography a branch of music in your world?

If indeed, as you suggest, mathematics has nothing to do with arithmetic or numbers in your world, why did you bring it up in response to the population numbers I posted?

Once again, thanks for not counting me as “one of you”.

“The world is watching and would crucify the Jews of Israel if they attempted that course in Gaza”

But wait…According to you the Israelis are already committing terrible acts of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. Could it possibly be that maybe the world does not agree with you, since no one has crucified the Jews of Israel yet? I’m afraid you’ll need to consult a library full of philosophy books to resolve this nice little contradiction in your post.

“Your book might back Israel claim but it is illogical on so many other claims…”

What is “your book” you keep referring to? I’m currently reading “A Dance With Dragons”, is this my book? Funny, it makes no mention of Israel. Maybe I haven’t got to that part yet, so please don’t spoil it for me.

If I were you, especially after your last brilliant post, I would keep quiet and avoid mentioning the word “intellect” again under any circumstances. Your God might still love you but I’m sure he’s up there shaking his head in disbelief.

I repeat, Singer is a man whose soul is lobotomised by hate, a man whose humanity is shrivelled and bereft, a purveyor of terrorism, a defender of the most heinous of war crimes and war criminals, and a poster whose very words discredit and debase the Jewish race.

Who else would offer up this quote?

"Moreover, some, if not many, of the kids could also be fighters. Earlier this year, a handful of media outlets exposed Hamas military-training summer camps for kids aged 6-16 in Gaza.”

What sick joke is this? Trying to convince us that the mangled bodies of 6 year olds are legitimate because many could be 'military trained fighters'? So young Australian kids attending naval cadets are legitimate targets in a war?

How reprehensible can one person be? Please see this person for what he is – monstrous.

Hey vdub

the more you say the sillier you look.

Most of the west's great philosophers were mathematicians trained in logic.

Yet you in your unrivalled brilliance disparage the links.

My god still loves you vdub.
It is rooted in both Judaism and Islam god is a man.

Westerners are questioning this gender issue. Why can't you?

'I repeat, Singer is a man whose soul is lobotomised by hate, a man whose humanity is shrivelled and bereft, a purveyor of terrorism, '

with comments like that David from SteeleRedux, you can be sure you are on the right tract. Truth rarely enters SteeleRedux's narrative.

Dear runner,

I was countering Singer's truth, that it is okay to kill Palestinian children.

You seem at pains to defend that truth.

Yet you feel no shame.

Why not?

<<I repeat, Singer is a man whose soul is lobotomised by hate, a man whose humanity is shrivelled and beref>>

Freud I dare say would make much of that bit of sexual imagery. No doubt Steele is projecting something of his own inadequacies/afflictions.

What do you think he might make of you sp?

Dream analysis might be poignant.

#SteeleRedux

You misleadingly and deceptively suggest that the following quote was made by me - when it fact it was made by Richard Behar:

"Moreover, some, if not many, of the kids could also be fighters. Earlier this year, a handful of media outlets exposed Hamas military-training summer camps for kids aged 6-16 in Gaza.”

That quote was part of a statement made by Behar which refuted Foxy's claim that the New York Times was printing the facts of what's actually happening in Gaza.

Not content with that misrepresentation - you then falsely impute to me the following:

"What sick joke is this? Trying to convince us that the mangled bodies of 6 year olds are legitimate because many could be 'military trained fighters'? So young Australian kids attending naval cadets are legitimate targets in a war?

How reprehensible can one person be? Please see this person for what he is – monstrous."

You then have the hide to compound your defamatory assertion in a later post by making the following comment:

"I was countering Singer's truth, that it is okay to kill Palestinian children".

You really are beneath contempt. It is your conduct which is monstrous.It is you who is reprehensible.

I am more than happy to continue exposing you for the rabid Jew-hater you are. Your posts on OLO will haunt you and expose you as one of those cowardly anonymous persons whose aim is to delegitimise and denigrate Jews at every opportunity.

I think you rate number 1 in the list of Jew haters who frequently post to my articles without the slightest interest in discussing or criticising their content - only using their publication on OLO as an opportunity to smear Jews with unsubstantiated and generalised claims.

It won't work with me mate.

Take David G's advice and take your Jew hatred to another site that will welcome you with open arms.

Finally please make it clear that the quote you say was "offered" by me was Richard Behar's - not mine.

You have engaged in this shameful conduct before. Time to repent and withdraw again.

Dear David,

"Thou protests too much, methinks!"

You can't have it both ways.
And trying to do so is chutzpah in the extreme.
Referring to Richard Behar's quotes and then
trying to run away from their usage. ;-)

Nice try.

Dear David Singer,

Pretty bloody typical of you mate. I show you up for what you are and you obfuscate and deflect with concocted affront. You offered us the quote from your link and said;

“Quit speculating about Behar's motives and address the substance of his above claims demonstrating that the New York Times does not print the facts of what is actually happening in Gaza.”

I utterly stand by my statement that you have claimed it as a truth.

In furnishing us with that quote you were attempting to lessen the culpability of the Israeli government for the horrendous barbarity they inflicted on the Gazan civilian population. You were presenting as a fact that 'some if not many' of the children the right wing war criminals infesting the Israeli Parliament have blown to smithereens or grievously harmed deserved what they got because they were 'trained fighters'.

It may be Behar's 'fact' and it may be yours, but it is not a fact in the rest of the civilized world.

How utterly contemptible of you both.

Of course you could redeem yourself and disavow yourself of Behar's 'fact', but we both know that is unlikely to happen don't we.

#SteeleRedux

Your ballistic rant against me is now extended to the author Richard Behar - who wrote:

"Moreover, some, if not many, of the kids could also be fighters. Earlier this year, a handful of media outlets exposed Hamas military-training summer camps for kids aged 6-16 in Gaza. Did the Western press corps in Israel pay any heed? (Reuters and NBC News, to their credit, did a slideshow and photo blog, respectively. The New York Times didn’t even touch it, although its reporter Akram lives in Gaza and surely must know about the camps.)"

From that statement you make the preposterous unsubstantiated claim that now Behar - as well as myself - " were presenting as a fact that 'some if not many' of the children the right wing war criminals infesting the Israeli Parliament have blown to smithereens or grievously harmed deserved what they got because they were 'trained fighters'."

Are Reuters and NBC News to be equally condemned by you with Behar and myself for printing the story?

What about you adding Hazem Balousha who wrote the following in Al-Monitor:

"About 100,000 students from all over the Gaza Strip joined the “Pioneers of Liberation” summer camps organized this year by the Hamas movement. The camps are organized according to educational level, with primary, middle and secondary school stages. The students are registered in mosques scattered throughout the Gaza Strip. One group of participants expressed their enthusiasm to Al-Monitor for the diverse activities, especially military drills.

Saleh Jaafarawi, 17, said, “I was waiting for the camp’s events to start after I was registered through the mosque in my region of residence. I received some military training as part of the boys' program at school, but this camp has a special character and sense of detail, and offers more training...

... Mohammad Abdo, 13, did not hide his desire to join Hamas' armed wing when he becomes old enough. He said, “I want to learn everything about arms and martial arts so that I can be prepared to join al-Qassam Brigades and fight for Palestine when I grow up.”

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/palestine-hamas-summer-camps-ideology.html

Dear David Singer,

Don't you get the fact that the message you are selling is recognised as utter swill? You can never justify the slaughter of hundreds Palestinian children via the savagery of the war criminals of the Likud party with the line 'well some if not many are militarily trained'. There is no evidence to show 6 year olds are firing mortars, or 7 year olds, or 8 years olds, or 9 years olds, nor 10 etc.

The utter inanity and absurdity is easily demostrated.

Here is a report from the Haaretz Newspaper on Israeli military training and indoctrination of Israeli school children;

“Educators and professors have criticized a new focus of the Gadna youth corps program for pre-military training of teens, calling it unduly militaristic.… Gadna, a department of the army, predates the establishment of Israel....The new Gadna program includes training in squad-sized operations, night treks and shooting, and excellence in these comes with a promise of rewards when the youth become Israel Defense Force conscripts...There are currently 73,000 pupils in the 11th grade in state and state religious schools, and 16,000 to 19,000 of them participate in the weeklong Gadna training. In the Education Ministry there are plans to significantly expand the level of participation.”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/new-idf-gadna-youth-program-criticized-as-overly-militaristic-1.208769

With what I consider evil and warped amoral logic you would by your reasoning condemn the Israeli high school population to being legitimate targets because 'some if not many are militarily trained'.

It is beneath contempt.

Singer are you admitted to the bar in Australia?

If you are and you hold views supporting land stealing, training kids to kill neighbours and as Steel points out are advocating the terrorist targeting of such children, don't you think you are too conflicted to be a 'pillar' of our Australian society.
Cos mate, if you are a member of the bar, that mate is what you are supposed to be.

You should either resign or be sacked immediately.

Part of your bio, mate, is relevant here.

You are disgraceful.

You blokes really are stupid. All of you.

You say all Muslims are violent.
When I say some Jews and some Muslims are violent you attack and abuse me.

You say the Koran is violent.

When I say both the Koran and Hebrew bible contain both peacefulness and forgiveness as well as violence and vengeance you attack and abuse me.

You say Muslims are intent on a genocide of Jews.
When I say some Muslims and some Jews are intent on genocides you attack and abuse me.

When you say all Muslims or the 'Muslim World' are violent.

You attack and abuse me when I point out peaceful Islamic secular countries like Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia.

When you say I support or are friendly with Islamists because I overwhelmingly make statements that are anti Jewish or Israel.

I laugh at you.

There are no Muslims in here supporting the violence of other Muslims. If they were I'd debate with them as I have you lot.

There are in here Jews and non Jews supporting the violence of the Jews of Israel.

Doesn't that say something.

The fact Muslims haven't entered this debate supporting the violence of some Muslims tends to suggest to me Muslims in Australia overwhelmingly don't support violence and vengeance.

You lot are evidence a few Jews outside Israel, if you are, and a few non Jews overwhelmingly support violence and vengeance.

If any of you are under the illusion I was doing anything other than stringing you all along until you had completely exposed yourselves ...well don't be so stupid.

Graham asked me once if he should not allow any discussion of the mid east.

I said no. This is why.

#SteeleRedux

Please answer this question which you continue to avoid:

"Are Reuters and NBC News to be equally condemned by you with Behar and myself for printing the story (of the Hamas summer camps)?"

Is Hazem Balousha who wrote the same story in Al-Monitor to be similarly condemned?
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/palestine-hamas-summer-camps-ideology.html

Here are a few more of many articles which have been written on the Hamas Summer camps:

You can view some excellent photos of these camps at: campshttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/10914547/In-pictures-Hamas-run-Palestinian-youth-military-summer-camp-in-Gaza.html?frame=endScreen

Read David Sim in the International Business Times
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hamas-summer-camps-palestinian-children-receive-military-style-training-gaza-1453506

Look up Michael Morrow at News.com:
http://www.news.com.au/world/hamas-groups-run-brutal-summer-camps-for-palestinian-kids/story-fndir2ev-1226950551431

Or perhaps Corey Charlton at the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653860/Summer-camp-Hamas-style-young-boys-endure.html

Do you also accuse the authors in publishing these reports of " presenting as a fact that 'some if not many' of the children the right wing war criminals infesting the Israeli Parliament have blown to smithereens or grievously harmed deserved what they got because they were 'trained fighters'

Methinks that you want to divert attention from acknowledging the existence of these camps by Hamas - an organization dedicated to wiping out Jews and the State of Israel.

The camps exist, they are a fact, the New York Times failed to report the story, Foxy got her facts wrong and nothing you shamefully allege to avert attention from these incontrovertible facts has any substance or credit whatsoever.