>"While off-hand, ideologically-driven or politically-motivated opinions disguised as facts are nothing new in political discourse"

I have to agree with tat statement. Clearly it is the Left that has the monopoly on " off-hand, ideologically-driven or politically-motivated opinions disguised as facts".

‘morning Rob,

An amusing if not disturbing article. Amusing because it promotes the “Twitteratzi Got-ya” style MSM activism, created by progressives, as a means of criticizing non-progressives?

Oh dear! How does that work Rob? Or should I ask how does that work outside the cloistered world of our Universities?

Disturbing? Yes, because this article should carry scholarly, considered, well researched, credible and structured analysis of the case you wish to make. Sadly you have cobbled together a narrative to cloak your own ideological persuasions. You have been notably unsuccessful at that also.

Perhaps Twitter would be a medium more suited to your thinking?

Alternatively, should you wish to meet more exacting standards for yourself and perhaps your esteemed University, you could go back to the Rede Lecture by C.P. Snow and work forwards in time. This will tell you everything you need to know about why you write such stuff

Thanks for this balanced article which suggests very sensibly to my way of thinking, that we pause and think about our views. This should be the particular responsibility of politicians and business "leaders" whose "opinions" for good or ill, sometimes go viral. The background and connections of "opinionistas" are vital to assessing how they select their facts and how valid these facts are. I notice that Graham (our moderator) states upfront his background. A healthy thing in my view. Stephenroger1.

An excellent opinion piece which should be read and debated across Australia. The dumbing down of information is closely related to the process of dumbing down our democracy. We deserve better. Rigorous and relevant research must be given far greater importance in Australian society. Unfortunately, very few federal MPs and Senators have research higher degrees and place opinion ahead of facts. We only get the politicians we elect. Higher standards need to be set and expected by the electorate.

Thank heavens for fact checkers and A+ articles just like this one Rob!
Rhrosty.

Yes Peter Lang

Not only the Left "has the monopoly on " off-hand, ideologically-driven or politically-motivated opinions disguised as facts"" but all of the Right.

My fact-finders tell me that all Coalition politicians in NSW are being scrutinised by ICAC due to influence peddling, bribes and backhanders in Bent-lays with whores.

Yep happy Joe Hockey has lately become whiny-cranky Joe Hockey. He needs to blow his snotty nose. No wonder Abbott is staying away from him.

Having spent his whole life in North Sydney Joe's factual knowledge of the 95% of Australian who are less privileged than North Sydneyites is as factually stunted as a numbat on plonk.

Pete

North Sydneyites is as factually stunted as a numbat on plonk.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 15 August 2014 4:39:39 PM

Priceless, a numbat for a treasurer.

This article can only be understood, if it is considered to be an application to the Labor party for the position of head spin doctor.

I doubt I have ever read so much spinning garbage in my life. Just reading this rubbish does show why Labor always get it so wrong, when in power.

If this bloke really believes this stuff, he is utterly deluded, but then he is a lefty, so what else could you expect.

'morning Hasbeen,

It’s all about “facts” I think?

Rob rails against << opinions disguised as facts>>

Stevenroger stresses how important it is to understand << how they select their facts and how valid these facts are >>.

Macedonian advocacy tells us that <<Rigorous and relevant research must be given far greater importance>>

Rhrosty tells us the importance of << fact checkers and A+ articles just like this one Rob!>>

plantagenet tells us Joe Hockey is << factually stunted as a numbat on plonk >>

As best I can determine, the SMH reporter James Massola writes an article misquoting Joe Hockey, which then grants him license to emotionally “feel” the argument and feed the rage. Like the rest of the public comments reported “Gotya” style this last week, context and relevance are removed to make room for emotive argument.

Rob, our Associate Professor of Social and Cultural Studies, rails against << opinions disguised as facts>> then he fails to check the validity of the original SMH quote and offers us opinions disguised as facts?

Stevenroger questions the ability of “others” to validate their facts but then fails to validate his own?

Macedonian advocacy is big on “rigorous and relevant research” but demonstrates he too failed to do his research and throws rigor out of the window?

Rhrosty admires “fact checkers” like Rob but misses Robs factual error?

plantagenet accuses Joe Hockey of being a << factually stunted as a numbat on plonk >> whilst missing the error himself and confirming that he too is factually stunted as a numbat on plonk?

It is entirely understandable that OLO’s progressives will respond to emotional rhetoric and go into a feeing frenzy however, for the product of one of our Premier Universities to offer “opinion disguised as fact”, failing to check his facts and then build an ideologically woven narrative around it is a tragic waste of our higher education system.

spindoc

I strongly resent YOUR imputation that Tubby-go-Hockey is a poonanni gobbler.

He is more than just a buffoon-esque North Shore lad who can't dance http://youtu.be/sj8j9Q8YYik

Yours fitfully

Pete

‘morning planter,

Not sure what you just said planter, but it sounded like a well constructed item of critical thinking, balance and an acknowledgment that you got it wrong? I could be mistaken.

My children were always discouraged from swearing and thankfully our grandchildren likewise.

They did however find a ways to express themselves without swearing. One in particular used to express herself by shouting “potty potty poo poo” in moments of frustration.

She was four years old at the time and has grown up just beautifully.

Other than by the maturity of your comments we can’t know your age of course, but you may still have time!

P.S How are you going with your rebuttal to the Joe Hockey misquote

Sorry spindoc

The "gobbler" reference, I admit, was a little low. Aside from that Hockey is under a great deal of self-inflicted pressure and it shows.

He's accustomed to being a good time guy that that the public laughs with rather than at. His days as Treasurer are probably numbered unless his Numbers-man ability - in the Party Room rather than national economics - can save him.

Regards

Pete

Personally I found the article rambling and shambolic, more akin to a Yr12 essay than a reasoned argument.
Slanted, simplistic, falling prey to the very things it appeared to be reputing, and with no clear conclusions or suggestions.
3/10 I'm afraid.

Spindoc old mate; that's not your usual high speed spin mate, but whipping it into shape/submission, with a frenzied giant sized eggbeater on steroids!
And I completely refute your take on my more than extremely reasonable, very brief comment, made even more reasonable, by the sheer number of links the Author provided!
As for being a leftie or rightie; [or even a brightie tightie nightie,] I'm neither, or none of the above, given I intensely dislike all politicians equally!
And fact benders like you, slightly less?
If facts can be compared to a line between A+B, then surely your renditions or remake of some of them, is a circle leading nowhere, or straight up a fundamental orifice?
Where you opinions or take on most things, seemed to have originated!
Suggest in future, you try talking from a little higher up!
You have a nice day now, y'hear.
Rhrosty.

‘morning planter,

Apology accepted but I still have no idea what your expression means and no thanks, I don’t need enlightenment.

@Rhrosty

The number of links Rob Cover provided is irrelevant and you know it. The Joe Hockey link was wrong in the SMH, it was wrong in Robs article and you missed it then went dribbling when you said << Thank heavens for fact checkers and A+ articles just like this one Rob!>> Goose.

You can check it out for yourself, or you can take my word for it. What is it with you guys that inhibits you from acknowledging when you get it wrong?

It’s not a death sentence for pity’s sake. Just check the facts you keep blathering about before you dribble down your shirt.

First Rhrosty

May I say you are a stout fellow and British to the booties. Being a pressurised water reactor (PWR) man myself I do respect your advocacy, however misguided, for miniaturised thorium reactors.
--

Secondly spindoc

I've located a most interesting link concerning Mr Hockey that may portend permanent doom:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberals-attack-joe-hockey-20140814-3dpoj.html :

"Joe Hockey's colleagues and political allies have rounded on the Treasurer, questioning his judgment and the quality of advice he is receiving after a disastrous gaffe...more than a dozen of Mr Hockey's supporters in the ministry and party machine...expressed surprise, concern and dismay about Mr Hockey's remarks.

Furious ministerial colleagues turned on the Treasurer over comments they variously described as "stupid and wrong", a "bad example of how to make a point" and "loose language"

"...Mr Hockey's gaffe has capped a difficult three months in which the Treasurer has been under fire for puffing on a cigar...dancing with his son on budget night...taking a holiday to Fiji during a key parliamentary sitting, complaining that everyone in the media was against him and co-operating with a biography that revealed he wanted an even tougher budget."

Has any Aussie Treasurer since the Vlad the Impaler been so popularity challenged?

OMG tosser you are such a planter,

I don’t care how many links you can find that articulate the sex life of the dromedary camel, the color of Joe Hockey’s socks, the eating habits of the lesser spotted dingbat, the nematode worm up your rectum or the spiral Higgs drive in your left ear.

The SMH got it wrong, Rob got it wrong and YOU got it wrong.

Repeat after me “Sorry I tried so hard to introduce a whole heard of Unicorns, I got it wrong, I did not check the source and I am forever tainted as a Spiral Drive, Lesser Spotted Dingbat that is too lazy to check my sources and love having social intercourse with camels”.

Sheesh planter, just say it for pities sake, you got it WRONG! I promise I will not send the camel love licensing department round to your humpy.

spindoc

Yee don't want to be poking fun at the phallic symbolism of my awesomely, humungus, sex-life (hetero-sexual I might add :-) http://youtu.be/6rwi_0DEd_0

Pete

I’m all for facts, and basing decisions on facts.

I’m for governments that call on various experts and also members of the public, and then listen to them, and then make a decision.

I accept that most things have an advantage and a disadvantage, but decisions should be made to insure there are more advantages than disadvantages.

I do not accept politicians or political parties being in government.

Is there anything wrong with this?

Yes.

Hey Pete old mate; I'm not guilty of advocating miniaturized thorium reactors, just the biggest currently available.
Even so, these 50 MW beasts, can still be mass produced and trucked onsite as very wide loads; which should mean, with a properly prepared site, electricity being produced in days? The Chinese are building one a week?
And given a very local micro grid, for less than half that we are now shelling out for current (cheapest available) power provision.
Or maybe you are one of those imponderables, who just love paying through the neck, for one of the most important of the two economic pillars, that support our economy, and indeed, place us where we are, in terms of compatible wealth creation.
After that, I'm very taken with the biogas/ceramic fuel cell combination, (Aussie innovation both) which has a 80% energy coefficient, or four times better than currently delivered by coal fired power!
Given few if any moving parts to wear out, and no long transmission lines to gobble up or halve the deliverable energy, thereby halving and then halving again, your and my energy bills.
To reiterate the latter option is at least four times cheaper, than any current market based choice!
I'm sure we'll never run out of completely free human waste, or find a more efficient/productive/profitable way to finally dispose of it?
Or the more than useful safe/sanitized byproducts the process also creates!
And thanks mate for giving me a lead into, one of my favorite subjects, the economy and what we need to do, to quite massively improve it and the options, wealth creating opportunities/ unprecedented prosperity, it gives every Australian man women and child!
Cheers, Rhrosty.

A cigar chomping Joe says he has no evil in his heart toward the most vulnerable!
And very sincerely apologies for your and my take on his words.
Well that's all good and fine, and just to typical of a blame shifting pollie? It's all your fault imbecile!
Even so Joe, talk (endless platitudes) is cheap and actions speak far louder than words!
And to date your proposed action, will do real harm to the most vulnerable.
So don't give me your platitudes or endless spin; just dump the most unpopular budget in recent history, and introduce a new and better one.
All you really need do mate, is remove all welfare for the rich, to boost the budget bottom line by a round 70 billions, or more than enough to end the deficit and even start seriously paying down the debt.
If debt was the real problem you say it is mate, then you'd take my advice, and then sell it to those currently in receipt of clearly unneeded welfare!
Be they wealthy waddling landlords living high on the hog of negative gearing, or family trusts created for the express provision/purpose of avoiding a comparably fair share of a common tax burden.
THE AGE OF ENTITLEMENT IS OVER! QUOTE, UNQUOTE!
And if you don't do that, the only possible reason, would be perceived reduced reelection prospects?
Yeah?
So, where do you think they're now sunshine?
When you're in a really deep hole, your need to; one, stop digging; two, start building a ladder or a stairway!
Rhrosty.

Thanks Rhrosty

Can you please put me down for 3 of them thar thorium reactors, just the biggest currently available. Please drop them off in my drive as a couple of blokes from Dapto have got themselves contract with Dr J. R. von Strangelove to install them in the needy suburbs of:

- Toorak

- Double Bay, and

- Springfield, Adelaide

No opposition from the thread bare burghers of these suburbs is expected, as I the Australian reactor Kommissar say "Like it, love it or lump it".

If these reactors are safe to place in country communities there's no reason why they'll be unsafe in city centers full of white people. And no need for environmental impact studies or any public consultation with the great unwashed.

I understand these reactors are really cheap and simple to build and operate so they are ideal replacements for hydro-carbon power stations and roof-top solar cells.

I'm planning to modify them sufficiently to place mini-reactors next to fridges or water heaters in every humpy across this wide, wunnerful land.

Cheers

Pete

plantagenet,

I have the answer.

We dispense with facts and all that, and go back to being run by kings or queens.

They could wake up in the morning, and have servants bring them a delightful breakfast.

Later in the day, (if the mood suits them), they open a window of their castle, and make a proclamation to the masses waiting down below.

The masses should be grateful for this, and go about their daily business, fully aware that the king or queen has their best interests at heart.

http://images.smh.com.au/2013/12/18/5018813/art-Abbott_car-620x349.jpg

I'd agree with the writer that opinions, beliefs and attitudes are taken at face value or fact by Australian media, then transmitted as a truth.

Good exmaple is Bob Birrell and his 'research' on population, immigration etc. whom has a posse of willing acolytes including Fairfax, News, ABC, Macrobusiness and various public figures such as Dick Smith, Kelvin Thomson, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, Jon Faine etc..

Too many journalists do not understand science or research.

An opinion, belief or idea about a (usually binary) relationship between cause and effect e.g. immigrants = environmental damage, one of Birrell' pet memes, needs to prove correlation (by looking at all factors), empirically test, replicate and then present as a causal link.....

However, too often in (our monocultural) Australian media journalists possibly underestimate or ignore their own culturally specific biases and prejudices, e.g. WASPish types talking down about NESBs as do most MPs (though the Senate is quite diverse).

Issue is not just opinions being passed off as fact, but that journalsist either don't get it, or they agree with the personal views of the 'researcher'?

Hi Incomuicardo

While its tempting to have non-politician, authoritarian General-Junta type ruling over us I think a philospher-king should get the guernsey.

Philospher-king-queens should be elected like the Logies by TV viewers.

Hence Australia's first philospher-king is http://youtu.be/t3ENUqV5-bw

Victa!

plantagenet

After that video, I have now changed my mind regards being governed by a king or queen. That leaves a religious figure to govern us, or politicians from political parties to govern us.

I don’t think either would place much emphasis on establishing facts.

The coalition cut funding to CSIRO, but previous to this, the Labor government cut funding to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/budget-cuts-how-asic-the-abs-and-the-ato-are-turning-off-the-lights-20140609-zs16p.html

Both political parties seem just as bad as each other at trying to hide facts, by cutting funding to organisations that establish facts.

So kings and queens are out, being run by a religious figure is out, and our political parties smell.

So that leaves who to run the country?