Dear Foxy:

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion for people to do some research into this conflict. Forming an opinion while relying solely on commentators such as Loewenstein and Pappe is no different to relying exclusively on sources such as Meir Kahane or Eric Butler. I respectfully suggest you do some reading from analysts outside the left fringe of society. As long as seemingly intelligent people hold such narrow points of views then yes, a constructive discussion is not possible.

I note with interest that you did not address any of the points I raised in my previous post, highlighting errors and inaccuracies in your claims. I assume you either agree with my points or are unable to counter them.

@ Foxy,

So Foxy you cite De Ilan Pappe, the Senior Lecturer at the University of Haifa, Israel praising (Lefty) Antony Loewenstein's book which criticises "Zionism" and Israels policies.


Here's a challenge for you Foxy:How many lecturers in Arab universities openly criticize Islam or their own countries policies --or praise book that does?

How many can you name? There is only one other stipulation: they have be living?

How many could you find?

CASE PROVEN!

Dear Avw,

You've lost me when you suggested that I do further
research apart from relying on "leftist" commentators.
Tsk. Tsk.

For your general information - I am a librarian by profession
and doing research is part and parcel of what I do
on a daily basis.

Dear SPQR,

Islamic Studies exist in Institutions of Learning all over
the world, including Australia. These studies are pursued
in an academic setting to debate social issues and
critical discussion about Islam. The themes vary at
annual conferences as do the lecturers. We have been
fortunate in this country to have access to two famous Islamic
academics that have chosen to stay and continue the tradition
of critical discourse. I shan't name them for you - because
if you're really interested you can do your own research.
I suspect that all you're interested in is insulting
and stirring. And I'm not going to play that game.

Anyway, do your research - you may actually learn something
apart from the spin you keep spouting.

I shan't be responding to anyone any further.
It gets tedious having to constantly defend well known
facts

Since I am neither a Jew nor an Arab, I don't have a dog in this fight, but from what I have read, the Israeli/Palestinian situation resembles the results of an exchange of populations, such as occurred at the partition of India, far more than exploitation by a colonial power.

Before the creation of Israel, all the Arab countries had significant Jewish minorities. Islamic law gave them some protection, more than they had in Europe, but they were very much second-class citizens and quite badly treated. While the Israelis expelled Palestinian Arabs or refused to let them return, the Arab countries drove out their Jews. There were 711,000 Palestinian refugees (not including descendants) according to Wikipedia. About 800,000 Jewish refugees fled or were driven out of Muslim countries at about the same time, and about 600,000 were settled in Israel. "Jews in Muslim countries in grave danger. 900,000 Jews in Africa and Asia are faced with waves of hate from their enemies" (New York Times, May 16, 1948).

Half of Israel's population is descended from these Oriental Jews, and they were a majority before the influx of Ashkenazi Jews from the Soviet Union from the 1970s.

Terrible injustices were done to individuals on both sides, as was also the case at the partition of India. The present situation exists because Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, while the Arab countries refused to absorb the Palestinians, leaving them to fester in camps without the rights of citizens. Of course, none of this excuses Israeli behavior in territories conquered since 1948.

Two simple things that for me describe this whole situation, and it's solution:
1 Quote:
Israel uses it's rockets to protect it's citizens, Hamas uses it's citizens to protect it's rockets.
2 Quote:
If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel - Benjamin Netanyahu

Until such time as the Palestinians and the Arab world at large change their attitudes and activities Israel will continue to be justified in defending itself by whatever means necessary. They should be praised for the restraint they've shown so far rather than castigated for defending themselves at all.

churlish-quote..<<..If someone intentionally..plucked my eye out, then >>

DONT FOOL YOURSELF
ALL YOUR LOOSING IS OTHERS RESPECT/AND YOUR OWN PRIDE[YOUR RATHE PATHE..TALKING ABOUT EYE FOR eye when by your own godless statements you claim one of you is worth 50 of them..[well sunshine thats a lot more than eye for eye

3 kids dead..in a rOAd acident[your scummy leaders..kills 300
thats not eye for eye..;thats rapINE/MURDEBY/BEASTS*

[the worst thing..is you lot are as divide..as any other lot..[more if truth be known/[recall the drug-testing on black jews..>..black jew babies..experimented on in isra-hell

<<.Anything less is not justice..>>

and any way too much?....as we are/not seeing
thanks to that clever distraction[yet another 300 dead../to the greater secular[godless state]

lilly-livered cowardice..on the part of the..godless/
secularauthorities dressed up..as a law for vengeance.

you/lot..are too gutless t..>>

you think it takes motza?..lol to drop bombs on kids
your freaking pariah.S of the human state..[a base level of humanity little below the lowly..PIGGY/beast.]

pathetic..how so many godless./.united under..a..typical-zionist; lie

claiming it..takes guts to.....murder..you idiots;..<<..Then don't stop me*..[lol]..from doing it.//>>..lol..as-if..lol..;you..hahahahah/

mate.the world will/soon forget..that black-hole..[secular-massdebate]..that used to hold jewwishes[we knew them/THEIR\insane lust to..Murder..[MAINLY-]kids

<<..After all..they didn't forfeit..their eye
so..the punishment..should be mine..>>YOUR/MENTALY-SICK*..PLUCK-OUT-YOUR/OWN;SIGHTLESS-EYES.

MATE/THERE COMES THE DAY...YOU SECULAR GODLESS..DEATH CULTS DIE
THAT DAY..HAS NEVER BEEN CLOSER/THAN\THESE DAYS..[YOU THINKYOU WANT THE MESS...and we can.only hope..IT/comes..and drags you-GODLESS/lot down a peg or TWO

LOOK AT..THE CLUTCH OF/YOU FRIGHTENED..FEARFILLE/..VENGFULL-FREAKS..PERPETUATING/YET ANOTHER HISTORIC/SECULAR-LIE..IN THE MAKING//pariahs..globally spiritually and materially..personaly

<<..What about the murder>>

it was..a car-acident;you sickos/set up\into an excuse...to go rape and plunder..the prison-..camp to get ya jollies[a huge joke;to murder/we see\your\insestual-INNER/workings

<<..those..3teen-age Israelie>>
have been..revenged MANY-FOLD..YOUR/PERVERTS;
MORE THAN ONE EYE*..FOR ONE EYE..ITS LIKE A SICKNESS/WITH YOU SEWERAGE/SECULARIST-MINDS

<<..whose murder started all this?>>
WHICH TIME..YA DEATH CULT-FREAKS?

Strange.\how ISRAEL/..had that big\stock-pile of newly
powerful rocketsAND CLUSTER BOMBS//PLUS POISON PROSPER..

that ISRAEL/were just itching..for some excuse\to test out on/THEIR MASTERS/BETTERS BY FAR..BOTH SPIRITUALY..AND IN CLOSENESS\TO GODS SUFFERING.

ISRAEL-MURDERS;..actively brainwashed/godless-stooges.
and..force young boys AND GIRLS..TO DIE..[paqthetic-trick-eye4eye]by/that..rule..you-TOO/WILL/DIE..

SECULAR-DEMONS...ARE LIKE THAT..ITS TIME/YOU REALIZED..your godless-govt..isnt just/THE;..death lust...FOR ITS OWN-BLOOD-EYES/GUTS AND GARTERS.