What are the real facts of this situation?

The media has deliberately misled public opinion in the past.

Many years ago, the evening news showed a young boy cowering with his father behind a barrel. Saying that they were being shot at by Israeli soldiers, the film goes to black and the voice over says that the child was killed.

Very emotive stuff, except that it had all been staged.

The next claim was of Israeli fighter jets were targeting ambulances, the film even showed a hole in the roof of the ambulance saying that this was one of the ambulances shot by a rocket. Apart from a hole in the roof, the ambulance was intact. Again highly emotive material.

Yet again the reader/listener is being led up the garden path. Hamas was using the ambulances to fire their own rockets into Israel.

So are we being tricked, lied to and deceived? All over again.

The following link may provide some answers:

http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/content/Israeli-palestinian-conflict-101

How can this conflict be resolved when one side - Israel
wants it all their way and as long as the US and its
allies continue to support Israel - Israel can happily continue
to set the rules for the Palestinians - while the world
allows it. Telling us that Israel is defending its "security"
is like Mr Scott Morrison telling us the same about
our border "security."

Come off it love.

You should be glad to see that those who choose to be the aggressor are getting their ass kicked.

This piece proves you are a frivolous twit, with no idea of justice. I wonder why, with your resume, I am not surprised.

Any thinking person should be disgusted when the powerful in a country chose to "waste" a few of it's citizens to promote their control.

Dear Hasbeen,

The powerful in that area?

I assume that you're referring to Israel - because
they can no longer claim victim status - being the most
organised and militarily powerful, supported financially
by the West.

Foxy my sweet, I think you'll find I said country.

It is highly unlikely that those rockets would be aimed at Israel, if they were running Gaza.

I can't imagine how Israel can be so restrained. If the Muslims ever win one of those wars, the ethnic cleansing they would undertake would be really epic.

<<If the Muslims ever win one of those wars, the ethnic cleansing they would undertake would be really epic>>

Spot on Hasbeen. And Foxy and co would not raise a whimper.

Speaking of ethnic cleansing and the "god"-given claim (of the Zionists) to possession of the benighted piece of real estate called the "holy"-land I quite like this reference - the conclusion unfortunately just may be quite catastrophically prophetic http://loiter.co/v/the-israelpalestine-conflict-illustrated-beautiful

Good thread Marjorie. Pity the "gullible" input. Only update it's now reportedly 42 Gaza children dead. Who is the terrorist organisation?

Dear SPQR,

"And Foxy and Co. wouldn't raise a whimper?"

That's low, really low. A cheap shot.

I foolishly thought you knew me better than
that, just as I thought I knew you.

Obviously, we're both mistaken.

Dear Hasbeen,

People who are mistreated - do eventually retaliate.
Kindly go back and re-read the link I gave earlier.
There's no comparison with the treatment of Palestinians
as compared to that of Jews in Israel. And this has been
the case from day 1. Do your research.
And what if not "epic" is what the Israelis are currently
doing in Gaza? Again do your research.

You seem to not let facts interfere with the spin.
And I thought you were better than that.

An excellent article Marjorie Cohn

Please excuse almost all of the other comments.

<<Israel Inflicts Illegal Collective Punishment on Gaza>>

Aiyah, sup sup soi, lah!

Anti-Israel rankers are a dime a dozen --and overpaid at that!

I am waiting for a really groundbreaking esposé like:
<<Egyptian Muslims Inflict Illegal Collective Punishment on Copts>>
or
<<Irian government Inflicts Illegal Collective Punishment on Bahais>>

Dear SPQR,

You talk about "anti Israelis..."
What about the Zionist lobby that has managed
to single out Israel for opprobrium and
international sanction out of all proportion to any other
party in the Middle East, and not admitting this is
dishonest.

The situation for the Palestinians remains dire.
Peace will not arrive without fundamental changes.

"Every Western pundit or official who pontificates
about Palestinian "terrorism" needs to ask how
forgetting the fact of the occupation is supposed to
stop terrorism," Edward Said wrote in 2001.

Arbitrary arrest, incarceration without trial, the
killing of civilians, inhumane roadblocks, and settlement
expansion, all lead the Palestinians to one conclusion:
the Israelis, and their US and allied backers, aren't serious
about peace.

Foxy,

<<The Zionist lobby that has managed
to single out Israel for opprobrium and
international sanction out of all proportion to any other
party in the Middle East>>

No. People like you have done that --because you ignore all the other greater infringements

You lot are like a pack of Duracell Bunnies performing your preprogrammed routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaF6FxmixJk
(the only thing I can't figure is where they insert your batteries!)

Hi Foxy

Yes its difficult to be a humanitarian commenter. Such inhumanity as the destruction of Gaza appears to be excused on a national, religious or racial basis.

A Jewish homeland is important but defending it with mass bombing is anathema.

Of the apologists for excessive Israeli violence one can only say:

Their knuckles drag but they gibber off-key.

Regards

Pete

Dear Ms Cohn. There are so many misleading and false claims in your commentary, it's hard to know where to begin.

"Israel...commenced full-scale warfare on the people of Gaza":

1. Do you really think that if the Israeli army launched a full-scale war it would have taken them any longer than 9 hours to take over the Gaza Strip, let alone the 9 days it has been going for so far with no conclusive results? A hint: it took the Israeli army less than 6 days to take over the Sinai, an area nearly 200 times that of the Gaza Strip, in a conflict with the vastly superior Egyptian army back in 1967.
2. Against the people of Gaza? Is that why the Israelis drop warning pamphlets and make phone calls to get Gaza civilians out of the way prior to an operation?

In your opinion, "Israel's overwhelming use of military force constitutes collective punishment, which is a war crime". The deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians by thousands of Hamas rockets is glossed over because "no Israelis have been killed" (which is not true by the way). Would it make you happier if more Israelis were killed? How many Israelis need to die before you are satisfied?
Have you seen the calls from Hamas leadership to their citizens to act as human shield? Who is committing war crimes here?

"...now that the Palestinians have a unity agreement..."

Unity? Is this why the PA negotiated a ceasefire and Hamas rejected it? Is it unity when the PA supports a 2-state solution and Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel?

"...the world's largest "open air prison," as Israel maintains a tight blockade..."

Let's conveniently forget that Gaza shares a border with Egypt. That border is not under Israeli control.

"...Justice Richard Goldstone concluded, ... violence against civilians were part of a deliberate policy [by Israel]..."

Did you not think it relevant to mention Mr Goldstone's own reservations about this report following evidence that came to light 2 years later?

These are just some of the issues. Unfortunately my word limit is up.

Israel is in the death throes of it's power. The powerful banking Rothschild family developed this concept of Israel soon after their WW1.Many of the people living there now have absolutely no genetic connection to this area and are really Anglo Saxons stealing another land.

The world power is moving towards the BRICS nations and this is what enrages Israel since the Central Banking system which created this state is now under siege.

Make no mistake, Israel is desperate and sees a global nuke conflict as their last chance of global dominance. Israel has 200 + nukes and the means to deliver them.

I really do admire the Israelis. I admire their social cohesion, which North Europeans seem to have forgotten is essential for the survival of their race and culture. But the Jews never forgot it, because they have been the victims of so much persecution throughout history, that they understand the basics of survival.

No race on Earth has done more to advance western scientific thinking than the Jews. The number of Nobel Prizes held by Jews is way out of proportion to their numbers. I think that this collective high intelligence among "western" Jews is fundamental to the survival of Israel. It is utterly incredible that such a tiny country, which lacks every kind of resource (except the intelligence of it's people) can not only thrive but consistently defeat in battle the enemies of it's people, who are determined to exterminate them.

How a woman with a Jewish name like "Cohn" could commit treason against what appears to be her own people, is an interesting question. If she is Jewish, then I would love for her to reply to that question.

But one suspects that the reason for her treason is much like that of so many ideological traitors. They simply hold to a higher ideal than supporting their own people. The cause of Internationalism, and the idea that wars can be avoided by identifying the victims and oppressors, and supporting the victims while rebuking the oppressors, is the overwhelming ideal.

But how people like Marjorie Cohn can misidentify the Muslim Arabs as victims, and the Jews as oppressors, is the mystery here. One only has to look at past and recent history to figure out what is really going on.

The only thing I can't figure out is why Israel persists in supplying water and electricity to it's enemies who are shooting rockets at them. Turning off the taps, and switching off the electricity, looks like a far more effective ( and cheaper) way of ethnically cleansing Gaza, than airstrikes

Marjorie Cohn spouts trite one liner after another.

There are a few facts about which there is no doubt:

Hamas started this exchange, has fired nearly 1500 rockets at civilian targets and continued through an Egyptian organised cease fire,
Hamas purchased and built this weapons stockpile with resources meant for improving the lives of its people,
Hamas stores its weapons amongst schools and hospitals, and fires many of its rockets from these positions.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswnFHUCYAABE7p.jpg:large

All of which are considered war crimes, but the left whinge media ignores.

Israel has the right to defend itself as has acknowledged by the UN, and has been striking weapons caches and rocket firing sites in Gaza. The casualty number given out by the palestinians classifies every one as civilians, most of whom were probably firing the rockets.

The reality is that this situation that the palestinians find themselves in is the direct responsibility of Hamas.

The blitz of Gaza. Hitler would be so proud.

Those who are defending the actions of the
Israelis in Gaza must not listen to the
news, read newspapers, or know the facts
of what is really going on there.

That's one explanation than might justify
their posts. The other is a blind support
and justification of anything that Israel
does.

Israel does not have the right to act unilaterally,
it does not have the right to wreck havoc and destroy
the prospects for a peaceful solution. Israel has been
calling the shots since 1967, always without Palestinian
consultation, and clearly believes that the US and
their allies will support Israel no matter what it does.

We can only trust that eventually justice will prevail -
justice for all, including the Palestinians.

As Antony Loewenstein pointed out in his book, "My
Israel Question,"

"Neither side has a monopoly on suffering, but only one
party has the power to end the occupation and to recognise
that Israel and Palestine are historically destined to
share the same homeland."

Looks like the greater international crisis of the MH17 shootdown will allow Israel to finish its slaughter of Gazans with little press coverage or press interest.

Israel has form in this regard. When the Falklands War broke out in 1982 Israel used that high profile crisis as a diversion - allowing Israel to invade Lebanon later that year.

Marjorie Cohn

By quoting the now discredited Goldstone report, you’ve shown your whole article to be a lie.

The ‘INFORMANTS’’ were ‘PAID’ to ‘TELL’ their lies.

NGOs vs. Goldstone: NGO Monitor Analysis, April 11, 2011
Goldstone’s Washington Post op-ed, retracting the substance of the UNHRC “Goldstone Report,” undermines the credibility of the NGOs that provided the false allegations. In response, NGOs and NGO officials have issued numerous statements distorting and rewriting Goldstone’s words, in an effort to preserve their credibility.

Wrong again Marjorie

Hamas admitted that Israel’s figures were correct for Operation Cast Lead and that mostly combatants were killed in Gaza.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1738/finally-a-hamas-leader-admits-that-israel-killed

Likewise figures ‘produced’ so far in this conflict are wrong. A report just released, reveals Israel has killed

“mainly combatant-age males, not women or children”:

“shows that, as in past hostilities, the fatalities are disproportionately [compared to the overall population] among young males, which corresponds with the characteristics of combatants. Males over 40 years old are also disproportionately represented. Some of the fatalities in those over 40 years of age likely represent senior members of terrorist organisations.”

This contradicts “media reports that tried to paint Israel’s Operation Protective Edge as indiscriminately killing civilians.”

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/15/watchdog-al-jazeeras-gaza-fatalities-data-indicates-israel-killed-mostly-combatant-age-males-not-women-or-children/

Marjorie, in all honesty, tell me please if you would put up with rocket and mortar fire daily for six months without retaliating?

No you wouldn’t.

ISRAEL HAS !
………………and She waited six months to do so.

Have you been to Sderot? You know Sderot….”the Bomb Shelter Capital Of the World”

I have, let me tell you it wasn’t a pleasant experience.

As I got into the car at Sderot I heard.

“Take that seat belt off immediately.
A rocket attack gives you 15 seconds to reach a bomb shelter. That seat belt wastes valuable time”

The entire day I was making sure I knew where the nearest shelter was.

I don’t have the time to go through your entire post to show how wrong you are.

VERIFY YOUR FACTS BEFORE POSTING AN ARTICLE TO AVOID MAKING YOURSELF LOOK STUPID.

Apologies. I omitted this link in the post above

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/ngos_vs_goldstone_ngo_monitor_analysis

NGOs vs. Goldstone: NGO Monitor Analysis, April 11, 2011
Goldstone’s Washington Post op-ed, retracting the substance of the UNHRC “Goldstone Report,” undermines the credibility of the NGOs that provided the false allegations. In response, NGOs and NGO officials have issued numerous statements distorting and rewriting Goldstone’s words, in an effort to preserve their credibility.

@ Foxy
..by quoting Jewish Voices for Peace you lose any credibility you may have had. It’s a Leftist very anti-Israel group. Likewise quoting Antony Loewenstein

Let those who line up behind a Goliath
Dropping airborne western weapons
Sitting in plastic chairs cheering death
Upon semitic civillian, mothers and sons.

Cowards fear on even terms engage
When blockage and oppression fail.
Yet killings of teens greatly enrage
but the slaughter of innocents all hail.

Come all yea faithful
Cheer the mighty vengeful.
Come all yea christians
Defend all God distains.

Laugh at and decry
The meek as they cry,
And seek a freedom
From illegal serfdom.

Oh let the rockets fly
Where bully can spy
From open desert hill
And more easily kill.

Come all yea faithful
Oppress the pitiful
Side with all the priests
Aid erect another crucifix.

@Foxy,

<<Israel and Palestine are historically destined to share the same homeland>>

Pity help any minority sharing a homeland with a Muslim majority!

Good on you Hasbeen and Wally G for having the guts to tell it like it is. Marjorie Cohn's article is full of errors. If Hamas didn't have a policy of deliberately place civilians (including Palestinian children) in buildings housing weapons and terrorists, they wouldn't be getting killed. No other country in the world besides Israel gives warning of strikes. And Hamas is the one that has consistently fired rockets into Israel.

We in the west care about the living conditions and loss of life more than the Palestinian people do. Yasser Arafat stashed millions in a Swiss bank for his own use instead of building hospitals, schools, infrastructure or creating a thriving economy to help the Palestinian people. A casino was built in Jericho! The Palestinian people should value their civilians lives as much as all of the people who have commented on this topic have - whatever their viewpoint.

It is reported that Israel has already used the higher profile MH17 shootdown to exploit the shift of political-news cycle attention away from Gaza.

The expected Israeli ground invasion of Gaza has begun.

As Israel's Merkavas* smash through Gazan civilian settlements all of Israel can look to an earlier Blitzkrieg of Germany against France in 1940 as a righteous example of Might is Right.

* "Merkava", of course, means the act of crushing a Palestinian 4 year old with a heavy tank in Hebrew.

Dear SPQR,

You really do have a problem comprehending the facts.

Israel's ongoing occupation and decades
of oppressive policy in the occupied territories prove
that the Palestinians have always been seen as an
inconvenient "nuisance."

You also seem to have a very negative image of Palestinians
associating them with terrorism, whereas you support
Israel right or wrong. You make no distinction between
an occupied people and those who occupy them.
Israel talks about the right of self-defence. However
how can an occupier claim self-defence but deny the same
right to those who are occupied and have the right of
self-defence with whatever means are available to them?

Dear Pete (Plantagenet),

Thank You for your well reasoned posts.

Palestinians are continually associated with terrorism and
with being primitive and anti-Western. This view is so
ingrained for some people. As we can see from some of
the comments in this discussion - it's very unpopular
to support Palestinians. It's much easier and safer to
be pro-Israel then to be pro-Palestine. One has to
coninuously explain and defend why one is taking that
particular position.

And of course it's going to be an uphill battle for
some Australians to unlearn years of Zionist propaganda.

@Foxy,
And you , dear, have a problem distinguish fact from fiction .

1) The core fact which you and few others seem incapable of digesting is that the Arabs waged a war of aggression –and they lost. When Japan lost WWII it lost Okinawa , Sakhalin and other territories . Germany suffered similarly. Only the Arabs seem to think they can try to wipe you off the face of the Earth and when they get beat say: “Well chaps that wasn’t very successful, how about we return to our old borders?”

2) And the way you tell it –or rather, regurgitate what you’ve been fed –one might think that the latest fighting was instigated by Israel and is being perpetuated by Israel alone –and I am darn sure that James (of the CIA bombed the world trade centre fame) , and OUG (of God created the world in seven days fame ) support you in that –but the rest of us might beg to differ.

3)I note you had no answer to my point that minority anyone who shared a homeland with a Muslim majority was –to say the least – in for a VERY hard time. Fellow Muslims can’t share Iraq, how the hell do you think they will share it those their holy book describes as monkeys?
And as I predicted in an earlier post which you described “as a really low. A cheap shot” -- BUT WHICH YOUR ACTIONS/LACK OF CONCERN & SIDESTEPPING NOW VALIDATE– you would not raise a whimper about their plight.

Foxy:

Let's examine some of your claims:

"Israel wants it all their way..."

Israel withdrew from Gaza nearly a decade ago. The withdrawal was rewarded with thousands of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel. If they want it all their way, why did they withdraw?

"Israel...set[s] the rules for the Palestinians..."

Wrong. It is Hamas who decide when to escalate the situation by firing more rockets into Israel. It is Hamas who violently disposed of any opposition in the Gaza Strip. They set the rules.

"The situation for the Palestinians remains dire. Peace will not arrive without fundamental changes"

You are correct in your statement. However your conclusion is wrong. As long as Hamas are in power, no peace is possible. Palestinian suffering is just a tool for Hamas, nothing more. Have you seen how they treat their own citizens, using them as shields? Are you aware that Hamas repeatedly refused cease fire proposals when it was accepted by Israel and the PA? Do you know how many rockets fired at Israel actually landed in Palestinian territory, on their own people? Or the rockets that cut power supply lines from Israel, plunging part of Gaza into darkness? If this is how they treat their own people, what realistic hope can one hold for peace with Israel?

"...the Israelis, and their...allied backers, aren't serious about peace"

Have you read the Hamas charter? Do you have still have any romantic notions about making peace with such an organisation?

"how can an occupier...deny [self defence] to those who are occupied..."

Gaza has not been occupied since 2005.

I am not really surprised about the opinions you formed if you only draw your information from sources such as Israel/Palestine 101 you provided earlier, or writers from the left fringe such as Antony Loewenstein. It is easy to be selective about the news you read and shut your eyes to reality.

If you are not aware of any of my points above or would like to dispute any of their authenticity please let me know and I’ll be happy to provide you with the source.

Hamas always plays
these games with Israel and the brainless
left wing bleeding hearts like the writer of this
article.

Their strategy is to hit and run, like all the terrorist
muslim and other such groups in the world. So when
Israel has had enough of one of their rocket assault fests.
And gets deadly serious and is on the brink of all out war
which Hamas knows would lead to the conquest of Palestine, they suddenly declare that they want to talk peace
and have a cease-fire.
How many times have they done that
already?

Then Hamas goes away and starts stockpiling another lot of
hopefully more advanced rockets or weapons they can
acquire to once again try to wipe out Israel.
When they have amassed a big stockpile,they do it again.

I tend to think that the killing of those 3 Israelie teenagers
was carried out by Hamas, hoping to goad some kind of retaliation
from Israel which would give them the excuse they needed to once
again launch their latest rockets on Israel. And their rockets
were more advanced and penetrated much further into Israel this time.
They wanted to try them out.
The death of those young Israelie boys is too much of a co-incidence
in light of the the massive amount of rockets Hamas had ready to fire
on Israel.

They are basically using the bleeding-hearts leftists to call
Israel off, when it looks as though they are really going to
retaliate with all out war. That way they can keep on intermittently attacking Israel
with better and better weapons without the consequences of total war, which they know would end very badly for Palestine.

I think Israel should declare all out war and put and end to it now
before Hamas does manage to get nuclear bombs or the like.

we have a fair clutch of sympathisers.
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/condemnation-of-israel-is-not-enough/

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/SMALL_BSobama.jpg
.but i know its wasted on these usefull idiots..never the less..lest these self confeseed athiests supporting the mrder of the candlbrum..to the secular star of david
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/the-slaughter-of-children-is-bad-publicity-for-zion/
how thick..are you either god gave it[and god defends your claim/or your god is satan/and your defying god[ie heathen atheist/seclar=all - anti god[so you lobbying for isRAEL this israrl that;its the godless israel..we now see.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/sarajevo-is-the-fulcrum-of-modern-history-the-great-war-and-its-terrible-aftermath/
we know you by your fruits*
http://bit.ly/1jGw0pH
http://www.redressonline.com/2014/07/why-the-israelis-are-repetitively-violent/
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/aftermath-of-the-humanitarian-ceasefire/
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/netanyahu-and-rahm-emmanuel-agree-never.html

TOO CLEVER BY HALF[THE MOSSAD;
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/air-disaster/
CHANGING THE TRANSPONDER FEQUENCY..TO SHOW A UKRANE-TRANSPORTER[TOO CLEVER BY HALF..the media the bloggers its clear its a beat up
http://rt.com/news/173932-no-weapons-cross-russia-border/
like the other/transponder incident at the nuke talks [the amsterdam
am-star-damm]
http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6304&page=18
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/new-information-provides-new-questions.html

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=650&doc_id=7014
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=650

militaries to go on shabbat

The City of David is a Jewish settlement near the Dung Gate of the Old City. On occupied land, and resisted by the Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan, whose land it is taking.

YOU..who....have adopted..as..a state-symbol
the menorah..(candlebrum).

<<..which is explained..in the Tenach..
(on..the occasion of..a previous return..to the Holy Land).

as,WRITTEN

*"not..with..*armed force*..and..not with power,*....*KEY*
but..*in My spirit..says..the..Lord of Hosts.">>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#176496

“As ye sow,..so shall..ye reap”
merely means..that what..you believe..to be worth
cultivating..in ..other.you will..seek..to..cultivate in yourself.

Your*..own.judgment..of what..is worthy
DOES..make it/worthy..for you.

“Vengeance..is mine..sayeth..the Lord”
is easily explained..if you/remember..

that ideas
increase*..*only..*by being shared.*....
This quotation..therefore..emphasizes..the fact/that vengeance*..CAN -NOT..be shared.

thus vengence..dont belong to men

cheers

how about the zionist/atheist-jew thing
secular state..for gods lands...[thats insane]
noty gods laws..secular[zionist/atheist..state law

gods lands run..by atheist..jews
if only..they followed..the calling..to shalom

..to all..those who engage..in..the study
of..the Torah..and not of..the laws of war*..are you..of the lampstand..or star-wars?
http://www.redressonline.com/2014/07/seize-the-moment-boycott-israel/

All I can suggest is for people to do some
research into this conflict and not accept
the narrative that has been constructed
through a complex web of media, politics and
lobbying that has resulted in a skewed perspective.
I support the rights of Israelis to live in
peace and security, but not at the expense of
the Palestinians. Why do we constantly hear
about Israel's need for "security" as though
that justifies erecting walls, checkpoints and
barriers. Why is the world told to believe that
the Palestinians should only accept peace on Israel's
terms.

I've come to the sad realisation that many in the
West simply don't like Arabs or Palestinians very
much and therefore believe that we have the right to
treat them as we wish.

It is time for a radical rethinking of the conflict.

For anyone really interested in knowing the facts
I highly recommend reading the book by Antony Loewenstein,
"My Israel Question." As De Ilan Pappe, Senior Lecturer
at the University of Haifa, Israel, and author of
"A History of Modern Palestine," wrote,

"My Israel Question will serve as an essential guide for
those who dare to criticise Zionist wrongdoing in the
past and Israeli policies in the present, without being
deterred by false allegations of antisemitism."

See you on another discussion.
I don't see the point of continuing with this one.

Five Reasons The Situation in Eastern Ukraine
is About to Become Much More Dangerous
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Five_Reasons_The_Situation_in_Eastern_Ukraine_is_About_to_Become_Much_More_Dangerous/36712/0/38/38/Y/M.html

israel..wants GAZA-GAS..

http://whatreallyhappened.com/podcasts/hourtitle1.m3u

Though this latest phase in the Ukraine crisis might seem like a repeat of recent events, this round is more dangerous for a number of reasons. Here are five of them.

This past week the mainstream coverage of the Ukrainian civil war has focused on Kiev's move to encircle Donetsk. However there are reports coming out of the east right now that indicate that the Ukrainian troops may have just walked into a trap. Specifically the separatists claim to have encircled western troops and have completely stalled their advance.

Obama Definitely Caused the Malaysian Airliner to Be Downed
http://whatreallyhappened.com/podcasts/hourtitle1.m3u

A lot of things are questionable..including the motive that ultimately brought this plane down. The ultimate cause of this event is clear.

Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone? Aviation expert claims captain made last-minute change of course over Ukraine because he 'felt uncomfortable'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html

The pilot of MH17 radioed that he 'felt uncomfortable' about the route he was flying while over Ukraine and fatally altered his course to hostile territory, according to an expert.
Webmaster's Commentary:
http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/superpower-full-version/
The corporate media is scrambling to explain why Malaysian Flight 17 flew well north of its normal course, and apparently have decided to dump the blame on the pilot, even though Maylasian Airlines is saying the pilot requested a higher altitude from Ukraine Air Traffic Control and were ordered to fly lower. This tells ut that the flight crew of MH17 were doing what ATC directed them to do
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis
a Spanish Air Traffic Controller who tweeted that Kiev was behind the shot down of MH17 and that Kiev military forces had confiscated all the radar tapes in the area (shades of TWA 800!).The tweet was erased and there were a flood of counter-tweets insisting the story was a hoax and the man did not really exist. This story, which includes a video interview, confirms the man is real and that he was forced to flee for fear of his life

Under One God

<“Vengeance..is mine..sayeth..the Lord”
is easily explained..if you/remember..

thus vengence..dont belong to men>

That is only what you believe, "under One God"

I believe in an "eye for an eye." Going on some of the
biblical vengeance that God himself was purported to
have carried out on whole communities of people, it seems
that he himself leads by example of "an eye for an eye"

If someone intentionally plucked my eye out, then my
idea of justice would be that they then in turn should have their
eye plucked out,also. Anything less is not justice but just
lilly-livered cowardice on the part of the authorities dressed up
as a law against vengeance.

If they are too gutless to do it. Then don't stop me
from doing it. After all they didn't forfeit their eye
so the punishment should be mine to administer.

What about the murder of those 3teen-age Israelie boys
whose murder started all this?

Strange how Hamas had that big stock-pile of newly
powerful rockets that they were just itching for some excuse to test out on Israel.

If those murders look like a duck and the ducks then act
like ducks(hamas),then it is quite probably what it seems.
A provocation by Hamas to goad retaliation. After all
Hamas has never shyed away from the killing of a few
of their own citizens in the pursuit of their conquest of
the riches and fruits of Israel.

They actively brainwash and force young boys to be suicide bombers.
Obviously their citizens are expendable.

Dear Foxy:

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion for people to do some research into this conflict. Forming an opinion while relying solely on commentators such as Loewenstein and Pappe is no different to relying exclusively on sources such as Meir Kahane or Eric Butler. I respectfully suggest you do some reading from analysts outside the left fringe of society. As long as seemingly intelligent people hold such narrow points of views then yes, a constructive discussion is not possible.

I note with interest that you did not address any of the points I raised in my previous post, highlighting errors and inaccuracies in your claims. I assume you either agree with my points or are unable to counter them.

@ Foxy,

So Foxy you cite De Ilan Pappe, the Senior Lecturer at the University of Haifa, Israel praising (Lefty) Antony Loewenstein's book which criticises "Zionism" and Israels policies.


Here's a challenge for you Foxy:How many lecturers in Arab universities openly criticize Islam or their own countries policies --or praise book that does?

How many can you name? There is only one other stipulation: they have be living?

How many could you find?

CASE PROVEN!

Dear Avw,

You've lost me when you suggested that I do further
research apart from relying on "leftist" commentators.
Tsk. Tsk.

For your general information - I am a librarian by profession
and doing research is part and parcel of what I do
on a daily basis.

Dear SPQR,

Islamic Studies exist in Institutions of Learning all over
the world, including Australia. These studies are pursued
in an academic setting to debate social issues and
critical discussion about Islam. The themes vary at
annual conferences as do the lecturers. We have been
fortunate in this country to have access to two famous Islamic
academics that have chosen to stay and continue the tradition
of critical discourse. I shan't name them for you - because
if you're really interested you can do your own research.
I suspect that all you're interested in is insulting
and stirring. And I'm not going to play that game.

Anyway, do your research - you may actually learn something
apart from the spin you keep spouting.

I shan't be responding to anyone any further.
It gets tedious having to constantly defend well known
facts

Since I am neither a Jew nor an Arab, I don't have a dog in this fight, but from what I have read, the Israeli/Palestinian situation resembles the results of an exchange of populations, such as occurred at the partition of India, far more than exploitation by a colonial power.

Before the creation of Israel, all the Arab countries had significant Jewish minorities. Islamic law gave them some protection, more than they had in Europe, but they were very much second-class citizens and quite badly treated. While the Israelis expelled Palestinian Arabs or refused to let them return, the Arab countries drove out their Jews. There were 711,000 Palestinian refugees (not including descendants) according to Wikipedia. About 800,000 Jewish refugees fled or were driven out of Muslim countries at about the same time, and about 600,000 were settled in Israel. "Jews in Muslim countries in grave danger. 900,000 Jews in Africa and Asia are faced with waves of hate from their enemies" (New York Times, May 16, 1948).

Half of Israel's population is descended from these Oriental Jews, and they were a majority before the influx of Ashkenazi Jews from the Soviet Union from the 1970s.

Terrible injustices were done to individuals on both sides, as was also the case at the partition of India. The present situation exists because Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, while the Arab countries refused to absorb the Palestinians, leaving them to fester in camps without the rights of citizens. Of course, none of this excuses Israeli behavior in territories conquered since 1948.

Two simple things that for me describe this whole situation, and it's solution:
1 Quote:
Israel uses it's rockets to protect it's citizens, Hamas uses it's citizens to protect it's rockets.
2 Quote:
If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel - Benjamin Netanyahu

Until such time as the Palestinians and the Arab world at large change their attitudes and activities Israel will continue to be justified in defending itself by whatever means necessary. They should be praised for the restraint they've shown so far rather than castigated for defending themselves at all.

churlish-quote..<<..If someone intentionally..plucked my eye out, then >>

DONT FOOL YOURSELF
ALL YOUR LOOSING IS OTHERS RESPECT/AND YOUR OWN PRIDE[YOUR RATHE PATHE..TALKING ABOUT EYE FOR eye when by your own godless statements you claim one of you is worth 50 of them..[well sunshine thats a lot more than eye for eye

3 kids dead..in a rOAd acident[your scummy leaders..kills 300
thats not eye for eye..;thats rapINE/MURDEBY/BEASTS*

[the worst thing..is you lot are as divide..as any other lot..[more if truth be known/[recall the drug-testing on black jews..>..black jew babies..experimented on in isra-hell

<<.Anything less is not justice..>>

and any way too much?....as we are/not seeing
thanks to that clever distraction[yet another 300 dead../to the greater secular[godless state]

lilly-livered cowardice..on the part of the..godless/
secularauthorities dressed up..as a law for vengeance.

you/lot..are too gutless t..>>

you think it takes motza?..lol to drop bombs on kids
your freaking pariah.S of the human state..[a base level of humanity little below the lowly..PIGGY/beast.]

pathetic..how so many godless./.united under..a..typical-zionist; lie

claiming it..takes guts to.....murder..you idiots;..<<..Then don't stop me*..[lol]..from doing it.//>>..lol..as-if..lol..;you..hahahahah/

mate.the world will/soon forget..that black-hole..[secular-massdebate]..that used to hold jewwishes[we knew them/THEIR\insane lust to..Murder..[MAINLY-]kids

<<..After all..they didn't forfeit..their eye
so..the punishment..should be mine..>>YOUR/MENTALY-SICK*..PLUCK-OUT-YOUR/OWN;SIGHTLESS-EYES.

MATE/THERE COMES THE DAY...YOU SECULAR GODLESS..DEATH CULTS DIE
THAT DAY..HAS NEVER BEEN CLOSER/THAN\THESE DAYS..[YOU THINKYOU WANT THE MESS...and we can.only hope..IT/comes..and drags you-GODLESS/lot down a peg or TWO

LOOK AT..THE CLUTCH OF/YOU FRIGHTENED..FEARFILLE/..VENGFULL-FREAKS..PERPETUATING/YET ANOTHER HISTORIC/SECULAR-LIE..IN THE MAKING//pariahs..globally spiritually and materially..personaly

<<..What about the murder>>

it was..a car-acident;you sickos/set up\into an excuse...to go rape and plunder..the prison-..camp to get ya jollies[a huge joke;to murder/we see\your\insestual-INNER/workings

<<..those..3teen-age Israelie>>
have been..revenged MANY-FOLD..YOUR/PERVERTS;
MORE THAN ONE EYE*..FOR ONE EYE..ITS LIKE A SICKNESS/WITH YOU SEWERAGE/SECULARIST-MINDS

<<..whose murder started all this?>>
WHICH TIME..YA DEATH CULT-FREAKS?

Strange.\how ISRAEL/..had that big\stock-pile of newly
powerful rocketsAND CLUSTER BOMBS//PLUS POISON PROSPER..

that ISRAEL/were just itching..for some excuse\to test out on/THEIR MASTERS/BETTERS BY FAR..BOTH SPIRITUALY..AND IN CLOSENESS\TO GODS SUFFERING.

ISRAEL-MURDERS;..actively brainwashed/godless-stooges.
and..force young boys AND GIRLS..TO DIE..[paqthetic-trick-eye4eye]by/that..rule..you-TOO/WILL/DIE..

SECULAR-DEMONS...ARE LIKE THAT..ITS TIME/YOU REALIZED..your godless-govt..isnt just/THE;..death lust...FOR ITS OWN-BLOOD-EYES/GUTS AND GARTERS.

Hamas rockets been found in UN run schools. How surprising! No outrage from the anti Israel brigade.

quote from Golda Meir

'We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We can not forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their own children more than they hate us.'

nothing has changed.

@Foxy,

WHAT A COP OUT --AND A WEAK ONE AT THAT!

<<Islamic Studies exist in Institutions of Learning all over the world...>>

I was talking specifically about the situation in/with Israels neighbors.SO AGAIN --tell us the names of those intellectuals in those near neighbor Muslim majority countries who openly deconstruct Islam --*AND* their own countries policies -- ala De Ilan Pappe and Antony Loewenstein?

The cat got your tongue --I thought so!

to refute further-insanities..spouting across..the dead zone between us/like the rattle//from a machine gun/to waste a few posted pot shots back/forth

the red-eye..4..eye/red-herring stinks
This is what a palistein rocket does

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0AEWa-hDXdY-hSxMZlbeavuXVN0UvFdxkq0Ow9wTECHL-84px7VjQfQ

AT BEST A HOLE[arround TWO FOOT ROUND/INTO the ground A FOOT DEEP

here is what ARROND A HUNDRED OF THEM LOOK LIKE..[USED]
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgM7uw6bL0AIaFnxmFtBl5L_dhu_tu7olXAzjohnne6jNWG_CA7XBApGI

as you can see they are mostly intact/plus some intresting POINTS TO NOTE/BUT FIRST NOTE THIs..these are the leFT OVERS OF 'REAL ROCKETS

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzY8ff7Ry_9eiq6-oaK8Hy9Uf6Y0nDRRkyUwlHzmWtAr2tpttsNxmm9FnO

petty fragmENTS/THAT SPRAY DEATH ALL ROUND

SO LETS NOTE the 'rockets'
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNljX7hzBtCZA0S7u_Ve6RikqdjW23wHls7kkSWZB06HmZDaEe1s47Aco

see how the metal//rIPS BUT NOT SEPPERATES[IT DOSNT Shater like the real bombs israel explodes into heaveY MUTAGENE PARTICULATE

LOOK AGAIN at the pictures
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpcVM49Fw3oA0Vbpdk3KRxpq0E1dobeNaEe5fgSW0P53qT0bzIY0F39RM

ONE LUMP OR HUNDREDS OF SHARDS

ITS not the same thing

punish the guilty

iM TELLING YOU THIS IS A WAR BETWEEn satanic aNTI GOD FORCES AGAINST THE UNITY OF THE nations of god

THIS
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjde1yv1FhmGFDowi4zHXSDskYQYbOPpqJePCKYhfoTRUF7zP9EZFT_SU

CANNOT COME by these
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqTD87k-G_Yv-cwFHT2zusH5pD886P2XDowN30XOt8fdN1bsnx9zwnCwY

STOP LYiNG..please

one OF THESE
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRf4W618jUo6NYQryomTjd1N86ItBGMP9M7xDSzUNzZUHQTZ8zH3s9I0LKa

destroys more THAN ALL OF THESE

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyvxejVGxtB79qII486h9Efnba8U8DnIA6ayJLig1_pV_IUSR_W6nfpjiv

we dispise..your god-less/secular lies
know-the truth;it shall-set..you free.

The City of David is a Jewish settlement near the Dung Gate of the Old City. On occupied land, and resisted by the Palestinian neighborhood of Slwan,..whose land it is taking.

YOU..who....have adopted..as..a state-symbol
the menorah..(candlebrum).

<<..which is explained..in the Tenach..
(on..the occasion of..a previous return..to the Holy Land).

as,WRITTEN

*"not..with..*armed force*..and..not with power,*....*KEY*
but..*in My spirit..says..the..Lord of Hosts.">>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#176496

“As ye sow,..so shall..ye reap”
merely means..that what..you believe..to be worth
cultivating..in ..other.you will..seek..to..cultivate in yourself.

Your*..own.judgment..of what..is worthy
DOES..make it/worthy..for you.

“Vengeance..is mine..sayeth..the Lord”
is easily explained..if you/remember..

thus vengence..cant belong to men

how about the zionist/atheist-jew thing
secular state..for gods lands...[thats insane]
not gods laws..secular[zionist/atheist..godless/soul-less/heartless;..mindless..state law..

gods lands run..by atheist/GODLESS-SECULAR-..jewfollow..the calling..to shalom..to all..those who engage..in..the study
of..the Torah..and not of..the laws of war*..

are you..of the lampstand..or star-wars?

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/israel-is-now-the-psychopathic-jimmy-savile-of-nation-states-says-alexei-sayle

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/bonfire-of-dolls-lit-by-jews-in-israel-to-protest-against-slaughter-of-children-in-gaza
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=650

http://www.un.org/en/preventgenocide/adviser/genocide_prevention.shtml

http://stopwar.org.uk/events/national-gaza-demonstration-saturday-19-july-stop-the-killing-stop-the-bombing#.U8MgErH2LfO

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/israel-is-waging-war-on-gaza-with-only-one-goal-kill-arabs

one under god

Your post above is a bit brief mate.

Can you summarise it in 6 lines?

A nice, warm, fuzzy paragraph?

Poyda

Dear SPQR,

Why are you still stirring.
As I told you earlier - all you have to do is Google
the information yourself.

Start with Egyptian academics who are critical of
Islam and go on to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and so on.

To get you started - try two Egyptians -
Prof. Emad el-Din Shahin, and Prof. Amr Hamzawy.

It's amazing what you can learn if you keep an open mind.

Have fun.

Dear Foxy:

"...doing research is part and parcel of what I do on a daily basis..."

Any research you currently do can certainly improve once you stop restricting your sources to the ones you are currently using. It appears that you are still unable to address any of the issues I raised in my earlier post. Reading a wider range of opinions might provide you with a better understanding of the real situation and allow you to tackle my questions, alleviating the need to bail out when the discussion gets too difficult.

Hi Avw

I hear they call you "Singer's kid brother"

You're writing at a funny time, Australian time.

So you're writing 3.09pm Saturday arvo in Tel Aviv. I suppose its a good time to post influence pieces on Australian social media :)

Shalom

Pete

Well Foxy, I did Google your two examples –aaaaaand guess what I found:

1) Emad el-Din Shahin is currently facing court on charges of espionage. And he is apparently associated with the extremist group the Muslim Brotherhood (that would be equivalent to De Ilan Pappe and Antony Loewenstein being members of the Jewish Defence League!)

2) Amr Hamzawy ,is being investigated for a criminal offenses and is barred from leaving the country. AND there is no record of him renouncing,deconstructing Islam.

NEXT?

Hi Pete

It’s complicated stuff, timezone calculations, so I’m not surprised that you got it wrong. It took me a while too but it seems that it was actually your post that was written at 3:09pm Tel Aviv time. Even more suspiciously, it was the same time in the Gaza Strip... Please be honest: are you sitting in a tunnel somewhere under Gaza with a laptop? :)

Salam.

Dear Avw,

While I appreciate your ongoing advice concerning
my research - you actually have no way of knowing
what sources I am using or why I am choosing
to leave this site. You are simply making assumptions
because they happen to disagree with your opinion.
And that is something over which I have no control.

Dear SPQR,

May I politely suggest that you read the following two
links - they just may clarify things for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/world/middleeast/concern-grows-over-academic-freedom-in-egypt.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/20/world/middleeast/egypt-says-twitter-post-by-liberal-was-crime.html

Dear Foxy,

Nice bit of ducking and weaving (did you ever play rugby?)--but one of those links WAS my source for the above info!

Let me put it in simpler terms for you : De Ilan Pappe and Antony Loewenstein have openly criticised "Zoinism" supposedly the foundation stone & guiding light for Israel.And as you were quick to point out De Ilan Pappe IS (still) a lecturer at an Israeli university. While Antony Loewenstein travels the world freely/unmolested doing all he can to undermine "Zionism" and isolate Israel.

Show me TWO things:
1)Where Arab intellectuals are similarly free to openly criticized their govts

AND --AND --AND (lest you forget again!)

2) Where Arab intellectuals --living in any Muslim majority polity near Israel -- have similarly criticized Islam?

special agent provacateur/quote..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=8

[or rather redirection[distraction]..ie watch the hand/not the MURDER

de

<he who limits genocide..by red gerrings ;assin

<<>.Show me TWO things:
1)Where Arab intellectuals..are similarly free>>

this im presuming is to avoid answering how many jews refute their govts acts[some govt acts arnt as evil as yours[thus your own..<<.. to openly criticized their govts>>

because their govts are doing massive murder
go figure..THIs sharia bull..is the same exteeemIST GOVT
[IN FACT ISRAEL SET UP ISIS/HENCE THE SAME INSANE DO AS WE SAY GOVT OPPRESSION.

<<..AND --AND --AND (lest you forget again!)>>
THIS TIME..MOssad yet again didnt play nuthin different
look for what should be there/but\..isnt*..

<<..2) Where Arab intellectuals --living in any Muslim majority polity near Israel -- have similarly criticized Islam?>>

foxy..dont rePLY HIS REDIRECTION
GIVE HIM HIS OWN DECRYING THE DEEDS IF A ROGUE STATE
A GODLESS MAYHEM..A SECULARIST END TIME DI-VISION/DONT BE DISTRACTED BY HIS LAME DISTRACTION

GIVE HIM HIS OWN..2..
witness against him

the godless have no conscience
besides..blackmailing our leaders..[with kids]

anyhow..lets judge them..later.

lets see..
what laws..do settlers..
in..dark/places..[inothers lands/with duel passorts
diplomatic immunity..etc..[what HOLY text..do they..live under?

talmudic [sic*].law?

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
quotations;..from the Soncino Edition
of the Talmud,(Book]

SANHEDRIN,..55b-55a:.."What is meant by this?...

Rab said:..Pederasty with a child
below nine years of age..is not deemed
as pederasty..with a child above that.

(footnotes)"..The reference is to..
the passive..'subject'/..*victim..of sodomy

UNDER NINE

now lets..go younger

YEBAMOTH,60b..*...Rabbi.Ramanos who conducted an/inquiry..and..'found'..in it

the daughter of a..'proselyte'..
who was under..the age of three years[and one day]...,

and Rabbi declared her/eligible*
to live with a priest."

(footnotes)"..A proselyte..under the age of three years
and one day may...be married by a priest...

*And was married..to a priest.

(i.e.,permitted to continue/to live with her'husband'."]

[not gods mozaic..law..like in./.the bible

(Book)

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp%3Fdiscussion%3D3071%26page%3D0&sa=U&ei=Mk6eUp36Ks2ZlQWzn4D4DA&ved=0CBgQFjAJ

Child sacrifice..was practised in ancient times..as offering to the Ammonite god Molech..a worship of natural fertility..*which was forbidden*by the laws of Israel. See Leviticus 18:21; 20:1 - 5; 1Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 1717; 21:6; 27:10; Jeremiah 32:35; Ezekiel 16:21.

[is/this..what the settlers,,[under..THE ATHEIST[secular]..star..are doing..in the deserts..of/the..lampstand..[the/fox/in..the hen-house?]

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2994&page=0

tell me...ever heard..of the/clean hands doctrine?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15664&page=0

Dear SPQR,

If you did have earlier access to one of the links that
I cited - than why are you still trying to stir?

Anyway, I've answered your questions. And if they're
not acceptable to you - that's your problem not mine.
Insulting me is a waste of your time.

One final suggestion. If you are really interested in
getting more in depth explanations from an expert in
the field - I suggest you contact - Professor
Abdullah Saeed at the University of Melbourne. He will
be able to provide you with a much longer list and give
you the answers you're after. Professor Saeed may be
contacted at:

Email: a saeed@unimelb.edu.au
Web: http://www.abdullahsaeed.org

Tel: (03) 8344-6861

Avw

No I live at Be'er Sheva in the Negev.

Shalom

Pete

Dear Foxy,

You are absolutely right, I have no way of knowing what sources you are using. All I have to go by are the sources you have so far quoted, all of which have been part of a particular political persuasion, far left of centre. Including more moderate and less controversial analyses in your research would lend your comments far more credibility and would possibly arm you with sufficient knowledge to tackle challenges put to your theories as I have done in this thread, instead of running away from them.
Unfortunately leaving this thread would not make these challenges go away, they are very likely to surface up again at the next discussion.

The Tribal Mentality
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/the-tribal-mentality.html
effectively indoctrinates an individual into the tribe's beliefs, ensuring that all believe the same, the structure of reality, what is and what is not possible for the members of the group is thus agreed upon and maintained by the group. Carolyn Myss

http://12160.info/page/tribunal-issues-landmark-verdict-against-israel-for-genocide

Israeli Judaization Master Plans

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/israeli-judaization-master-plans/

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/israel-is-waging-war-on-gaza-with-only-one-goal-kill-arabs

Norwegian surgeon in Gaza hospital: "This is outrageous, horrific and unbelievable ... what's happening is no less than premeditated killing and genocide."
http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/norwegian-surgeon-in-gaza-hospital-this.html

carloads with maimed, torn apart, bleeding, shivering, dying - all sorts of injured Palestinians, all ages, all civilians, all innocent.

Reuters: Clashes Erupt in Paris as Thousands Rally To Denounce Israel Attack on Gaza
http://forward.com/articles/202411/clashes-erupt-in-paris-as-thousands-rally-to-denou/#ixzz37wdHlwDQ

Angry Crowds Defy Ban on Pro-Palestinian Protests
http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/pro-palestine-protests-marches-are-now.html

Expel Palestinians, populate Gaza with Jews, says Knesset deputy speaker
B http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/expel-palestinians-populate-gaza-jews-says-knesset-deputy-speaker

Israel must attack Gaza even more mercilessly, expel the population and resettle..Moshe Feiglin,

http://uacrisis.org/u-s-grants-ukraine-non-nato-ally-status/ The

United States Congress passed a Russian Aggression Prevention Act (RAPA) of 2014, which granted Ukraine together with Moldova, and Georgia major non-NATO ally status. The legislation authorizes the transfer of military assistance to Ukraine, including the anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons....

TROUBLE BEING THE RUSSIAN SYMPATHISERS HAVNT GOT ANY PLANES..wink?WINK*
http://rss.infowars.com/20140718_Fri_Alex.mp3

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4...see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5...commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6...controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

to Israel's supporters, we should all forget that Israel attacked Gaza without a valid reason, and view Palestine's attempts to defend themselves as the crime, so that Israel can go on pounding the Palestinians with their superior weapons.

I want to point something out. The Israelis sit in their tanks, or the drone operations centers, or fly high above Gaza in their US-supplied warplanes, dropping the latest in US-supplied high tech lethal munitions, and imagine themselves the heroes they read about in the Torah.

Let's review the timetable.

Last month, three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and killed in an IDF-controlled region of the West Bank, not Gaza. ISIS has taken credit and even the Israeli media admits that the two suspects named by the Israeli government are not part of HAMAS, but of a group known for disobeying HAMAS and trying to cause trouble for them.

But Netanyahu declares HAMAS responsible and launches bombing raids into Gaza using the very latest high-tech weapons provided by the US Government and paid for by the US taxpayers.

http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/activists-occupy-uk-government-building.html

Khalilah Sabra: Israel Is Using Banned Weapons against the People of Gaza
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930429000012

As the Tel Aviv regime continues its deadly campaign of airstrikes against the densely populated Gaza Strip, where some 1.6 million people are living in an area of 360 km2 under critical conditions exacerbated by continuous water shortage, power blackout and lack of access to foodstuff and medicine, conscious activists across the world are raising their voice in protest against the inhumane measures adopted by Israel in Gaza, which has been under siege for more than 7 years now.

http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2014/07/tens-thousands-march-london-bbc-silent/
Crowds of tens of thousands gathered in Central London today to protest at the on-going military actions of Israel in the Gaza Strip. Estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000, making this one of the largest demonstrations in recent years in Britain.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ron-Paul-Putin-Malaysian-flight/2014/07/18/id/583590/
EXPEL
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/expel-palestinians-populate-gaza-jews-says-knesset-deputy-speaker

ETHNIC CLEAN
http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/deputy-speaker-of-israeli-knesset-pens.html

MEDIA DISTRACTION/MISSDIRECTION
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/mh17-weathering-propaganda-firestorm.html

USA CANT SAY SORRY
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/18/1314985/--I-Will-Never-Apologize-Iran-Flight-665-Shot-Down-290-Dead

LEST WE FORGET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhk6EZ0BLH4

RECALL;THE SEE OF TRANQUILITY
http://english.sina.com/video/2009/0720/256905.html

DONT PICK ON ME
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/defensive-kornacki-ganging.html

Dear Avw,

Thank you for your advice.

I know you mean well and that is greatly appreciated.
As has been the civility in your posts.

I'm going into hospital tomorrow morning for
a second cardiac procedure.

I wasn't going to say anything initially - however
I now feel that I do owe you my real reason for
leaving this discussion.

Hopefully we can continue in further discussions
sometime in the future.

Take care.

Get well soon Foxy :)

Israeli Butchers Bill: 348 Palestinians killed* vs 5 Israeli soldiers killed

= a 70 to 1 kill ratio by Israeli Army

* UN estimates 72% of Palestinians killed were non-combatant civilians

See right side-bar of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_Conflict

love yOU FOXEY LOXIE
YOUR ALL HEART..mine wont be the same/till your back in the game.

till then..some deano martino
[with take these chains;from my heart..and set us free*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqGrrCkFACA
knowing we will allways care for you
to your own heart be true

lord..hear our plea

Lord, my heart is always true to You,
Never backsliding, always viewing You,
A heart that is pure that sees only You,
A heart that loves You and treasures only You.

Your love constrains me to give my all to You.
Lord, I can’t help it; my heart is drawn to You.
Oh what a privilege! I give myself to You!
I love You, Lord, dearest Lord.
I love You! I just love You!

Lord, feeL my love burning brightly for You,
A love never dwindling..always hot for You,
A love, shining brighter..all the way for You,
A love, so fresh like the day I first touched You.

Lord, take my life, I present it to You!
If I had a thousand, I’d pour all on You!
Nothing withholding, my all is for You.
My life and my future, dear Lord, is all for You.

Source: http://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/lb/52#ixzz380fbXrDL

and i ask you lord repair our darlings heart
a heart can only bare..that you give it the strength to care.

i wish i was a an of simple and un sinfull words
but we love you dear..heal thyself;by the time you come back we will have healed a little bit of the world[a better place for you being in it]

with all my heart...my love get well..
dare i say your too god for this world
but hey give us sukkers an even break
GIVE THIS MATERIALST HELL A DARN GOOD SHAKE
HOW MANY MORE HEARTS NEED BREAK?

Oh OUG you romantic you!

lol

Butch

If a nation is controlled by land, sea and air by another nation isn't that nation 'occupied'?

Dear Foxy,

There is absolutely no reason we can’t be civil in our discussion, even though we seem to have opposite opinions.
I was not aware of your upcoming hospital admission. I wholeheartedly wish you well and hope your cardiac procedure is a complete success and you are back here in no time to debate other issues with us again.

Has any evidence of whom was responsible for the abduction/murder of the 3 Israeli boys been published?

Why did Netanyahu suppress the news that the 3 boys had been killed almost immediately after abduction?

hi there michael jonus
Missile Guidance System being smuggled into Ukraine in June

intercepted in Finland. Won't say who going to. Ukraine shot down airliner in 2001 with BUK missile
http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2014/07/missile-guidance-system-being-smuggled.html

Finland intercepted a shipment of missile guidance systems being smuggled into Ukraine from Vietnam.

They will not say who was the intended recipient in Ukraine.

Ukraine shot down an airliner in 2001..with BUK 300 missile, first they denied it and then had to admit it.

NATO had two airborne early warning
and control..(AEW&C)...One was in Romania and the other in Poland.

Let's review the timetable.
http://rss.infowars.com/20140718_Fri_Alex.mp3

Last month, three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and killed in an IDF-controlled region of the West Bank,..*not Gaza...[ISIS has taken credit]..and even the Israeli media*admits that the two suspects named by the Israeli government..*are not part of HAMAS,..but of a group known for disobeying HAMAS..*and trying to cause trouble for them.

But Netanyahu declares HAMAS responsible and launches bombing raids into Gaza using the very latest high-tech weapons provided by the US Government and paid for by the US taxpayers.

The Palestinians,..who have been attacked..*without provocation, fight back with..their home-made/BROKEN WATER-PIPE-BOMBS..NOT*rockets,..which so far have not killed anyone..or done more damage than..knock a few roof tiles loose.[BUT..EACH..FLYING PIPE;COSTS QUARTER OF A MILLION TO FEED THE IRON-DOME..[CATCHING HALF]

But to Israel's supporters,..we should all forget that Israel attacked Gaza without..a valid reason,..and view Palestine's attempts to defend..themselves as the crime,..so that Israel can go on pounding...the Palestinians..with their superior weapons.[THEN/MOVE-IN..TAKE THE..GAS]

I want to point..something out...The Israelis sit..in their tanks,..or the drone operations centers,..or fly high above Gaza in their US-suppied warplanes,..dropping the latest in US-supplied high tech lethal munitions,..and imagine themselves the heroes they read about in the TALMU[. SEE/PREV-POST]..WHILE..The Palestinians huddle in their giant open-air prison,..[AS/BOMBFRAGMENTS/KNOCK-ON/THEIR..ROOFS.without..SOMuch/AS\An army,..a navy/PORT,..or an air fIEL.., and fight back..with..40.000/home-made rockets\and 250,000/handgranades..made out of..busted-plumbing supplies.

The Palestinians have balls,..the US and Israel can only dream of, and the world..will remember their courage..against the tyrants,..and the lies by the corporate media's presstitutes..and whorespondents trying to protect Israel's aggression!

may/god..have/mercy;on\thier..souls.

ahhhh.men

Israeli Butcher's Bill* at beginning of 22 July: 508 Palestinians killed vs 20 Israelis killed**

= a 25 to 1 kill ratio by the Israeli Army

UN estimates 72% of Palestinians killed were non-combatant civilians

See:

* http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Butcher%27s%20Bill

** right-hand sidebar of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Protective_Edg

evenblind fredddy//can see that the media coverup is huge
we are seeing nonstop coveragE OF EMPTY FIELDS..WHERE 300 DIED.near a week ao/and ignore the 100 per day being deliberatLY KILLED/NOT BY RUSSIA BUT THE BEAST OF ZION EATING..ITS DEAD..AS MUCH AS KILLING OTHERS

we will know you by your works
you either de-serve god/love life
or you sERve death

the blind leading the blinded by spin
[its the silence;of those who claIM TO CARE..THAT SHOULD FRIGHTEN YOU
ISRAEL SAYS JUMP/AND USA FRANCE THE NATZIES/even austr-aliens..ecome mnindless demons talking up mass murder.

anD I GET 3 COMMENTs

its not as if these brain dead retards have half a HOPE IN HELL
GO AHEAD FOLLOW YA MATES INTO HELL/THE SOONER YOU KILLERS KILL EACH OTHER OFF THE BETTER

I LOVE HOW THE IRON DOME..is sending israel broke
funny how a 60 dollar pipe bomb costs quarter of a millioN TO SHOOT ONE IN 5 DOWN..ITS funny israel speands half a century trying to break gaza..and gaza are wonning big time[hence media avoiding mentioning the war

the real one
not the nuke one israel seeks russia and usa to do to amuse zion

the sceam foats with the scum..[there is no dIffeRENCE]
THESE PEOPLE RIP THE VERY.MERCURY FILLINGS FROM YA TEETH.
THEY HURT ME DEPLY..SO I SEEK TO DEEPLY BITE THEM BACK[ITS BECOME PERSONAL..[ITS TIME FOR SANCTIONS AGAINST Usa germ*any lettered-*frenchies [FRENCHLETTERS]..and israe;..y uk..and yukrane/the big 6..revealed by their works[those gaining too much from war]

AND WILLING lie as you doi
as you die..to lie to you personally;..ThOUGH THEIR NATZIE TEETH

http://investmentwatchblog.com/crimes-against-humanity-with-500-palestinians-already-dead-idf-shells-another-hospital-5-more-dead-dozens-hurt/

Boom! MH17 Smoking Guns Emerge! Kiev Did It! Complete Compilation Of All The Evidence As MH17 False Flag Falls Apart!

http://investmentwatchblog.com/boom-mh17-smoking-guns-emerge-kiev-did-it-complete-compilation-of-all-the-evidence-as-mh17-false-flag-falls-apart/

Zionist Israel an International Pariah
http://batr.org/reactionary/072114.html

Gaza has become a slaughter zone
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ea1_1405874581
for the eradication of Palestinians with the most advanced military technology that Israel posses. In comparison the blaming of Hamas for this latest barrage of rockets, fails to recognize any proposition in the mutual savagery. Depending on one’s view just who is the unlawful belligerent, sympathy and condemnation follows. This eternal struggle will never end peacefully. Debating international law, dissecting historic claims, strategizing military options, analyzing diplomatic intentions, and especially honoring superior doctrine among conflicting religious beliefs is a formula that offers no solutions. Yet, Israel is wedded to an expansionist political objective. Extending settlements prevent any permanent settlement agreement.

FBI pushed Muslims to plot terrorist attacks: rights report
http://patriotrising.com/2014/07/21/fbi-pushed-muslims-plot-terrorist-attacks-rights-report/

The FBI encouraged and sometimes even paid Muslims to commit terrorist acts during numerous sting operations after the 9/11 attacks, a human rights group said in a report published Monday.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/fbi-entrapment-created-illusion-terrorist-plots-report/

US networks remove reporters critical of Israeli attack on Gaza

http://rinf.com/alt-news/media-news/us-networks-remove-reporters-critical-israeli-attack-gaza/

On two consecutive days this week, journalists reporting from the Gaza war zone who evinced empathy for the Palestinians and less than unquestioning support for Israel were removed by television network executives.

http://www.intellihub.com/evolution-u-s-war-propaganda/

Avw,

Just a footnote to one of your posts above. You appear to be only new to OLO and as a result might not know some of the players as well as some of us oldtimers.

Let me just warn you that some of the characters who masquerade as poor old granny suffering a myriad of ailments, and needing sympathy & attention, are in reality the big bad wolf in disguise --DON'T BE FOOLED!

SPQR

You're a poor excuse for a baboon mate.

Pete,

Aye mate maybe, and you're a poor imitation of the cluey Pete who usually posts on OLO. You really are a cut above people like Foxy & OUG who are locked into a one-eyed view of the world --sorry we disagree on this issue. But am sure we will agree on most others in the future.

Cheers

Hi SPQR

Flattery will get you everywhere.

Said the pitbull to the bishop.

Cheers

Pete

Thanks all for the guidance :)
I'm not quite new to OLO, although I have been absent for a couple of years.
I had a feeling that the developing events in the Middle East will trigger some fireworks here so I thought I’d come back for a visit…

Hmmm, only had a brief scan of the posts here, but no one seems to
have put the whole mess into its long term historical context.

The Koran tells its followers to go and convert the world to Islam at
the point of the sword if resisted.
That is how they come to be in Palestine.
The Hamas will accept no settlement except that Israel packs up and
leaves the Middle East.
That is the choice they give Israel, leave or die.

Unfortunately being Arabs they are not genetically disposed to compromise.
It is a behavior problem we will all have to face.

So all the bleating on here is about a battle for survival.
In a battle for survival there is only one winner.