I may be a cynical old bugger, but past examples have shown that not all imams can be trusted to be on our side. Only a few years ago there was one young imam whose name currently escapes me, who was openly advocating jihad. I believe his Australian passport has been revoked and he will not be allowed back in the country.

David

The article is necessarily dry. As counter-terrorism legal changes are a Public Interest matter Recommendation 40 concerning weapons training is of interest. When/if Recommendation 40 is introduced into Parliament the minutiae justifying it might be lost in the rush. The following assists public debate.

The AG, Brandis in Senate Question Time on 25 June identified the major basis for the proposed legal changes to be introduced into Parliament on 14 June 2014 - see http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.au/transcripts/Pages/2014/Second%20Quarter/25June2014-QuestionTimeSenate.aspx .

Those changes are from 21 Recommendations in Chapter 4 of the following Report: http://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees?url=pjcis/nsl2012/report.htm

Note that 10,000s of people including those in the human rights community who commented on drafts of the Report have read Chapter 4. Chapter 4 would have been on the open internet for many months.

The text of Chapter 4 is at http://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees?url=pjcis/nsl2012/report/chapter%204.pdf .

Within the Chapter 4 text is Recommendation 40 of the Report.
Text of 40 is:

"Recommendation 40

The Committee recommends that the Intelligence Services Act 2001 be
amended to enable ASIS to provide training in self‐defence and the use of weapons to a person cooperating with ASIS."

The argument for Recommendation 40 is on pages 136 to 138 of the Report:

"ASIS co-operation on self-defence and weapons training

4.237 The Government expressly seeks the Committee’s views on amending the IS Act to enable ASIS to provide training in self‐defence and the use of weapons to a person cooperating with ASIS.

4.238 The IS Act was amended in 2004 to to enable ASIS staff members and agents to receive training in the use of weapons and self-defence techniques in certain limited circumstances.

4.239 ASIS is only permitted to provide training in the use of weapons to ASIS staff members and agents. The IS Act does not currently enable ASIS staff members to participate in joint training in the use of weapons with persons who are lawfully cooperating with ASIS. This applies even though ASIS staff members are authorised to use weapons to protect such persons."

ARGUMENT FOR RECOMMENDATION 40 CONTINUES NEXT POST

ARGUMENT FOR RECOMMENDATION 40 CONTINUED

"4.240 To remedy this inconsistency the discussion paper proposes that ASIS would be allowed to engage in weapons training with Commonwealth, State and Territory bodies that have their own rights to carry weapons in the course of their duties.

ASIS would also be enabled to cooperate with a limited number of approved overseas authorities in the delivery of training in self-defence and weapons.1

4.241 The Pirate Party of Australia submitted that allowing the Foreign Minister to approve foreign bodies to receive such training ‘is deeply concerning’: This could be used to train insurgent armies, assassination squads and even terrorists. Such activities are not Justified under any circumstances and is contrary to Australia’s national interest. Any tool created to fight foreign enemies can be turned upon the Australian people or at minimum be justification for our enemies to adopt the same strategies against us.121

4.242 Similarly, the Human Rights Law Centre expressed concern that Weapons and self-defence training: …may pose risks to right to life contained in article 6 of the ICCPR. These proposals should have regard to human rights standards on the use of force.122

4.243 Contrarily, ASIS’s submission asserted that the current carriage of weapons by ASIS is strictly for defensive purposes in accordance with the limitations imposed by Schedule 2 of the IS Act.123

4.244 Similarly, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security noted in her submission that: Generally I am satisfied that the powers afforded to ASIS under Schedule 2 of the ISA are reasonable given the high threat environments in which it conducts some of its more sensitive activities, that the numbers of individuals who are authorised to use weapons is quite small and these authorisations are not being misused. I have been briefed on the need for joint training activities and have no propriety concerns with what has been proposed. If the proposed amendments are made I will monitor their implementation.124"

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ARGUMENT FOR RECOMMENDATION 40 CONTINUED

"Committee comment

4.245 The Committee is of the view that as ASIS officers are permitted at law to co-operate with certain agencies and use weapons and self-defence techniques to protect themselves and their partner agencies, it is reasonable for ASIS to be able to train with those same partners in the self-defence techniques and with the weapons that are intended to save their lives.

4.246 Indeed, the lack of such joint training poses an unacceptable danger to ASIS officers and agents.

[Hence]

Recommendation 40

The Committee recommends that the Intelligence Services Act 2001 be amended to enable ASIS to provide training in self‐defence and the use of weapons to a person cooperating with ASIS."

END

Hi Pete,
Good article. The threat of home grown or imported terrorism should be of concern to Australians but not a constant worry. In many ways Europe s much closer geographically to the two hot spots and has a more diverse population particularly in regards to their Middle East population than Aus does and as such you would expect more recruitment from this region. What interests me is that we have Indonesia on our doorstep which has the largest Muslim population in the world.There has been little documented in regards to recruitment to the jihad from Indonesia and this may pose a greater threat to Australia's security than direct recruitment.
In regards to the proposed amendments to the Act and the new powers given as always human rights and privacy concerns must be considered as well as the personnel and expertise needed to enforce the laws.
Cheers
Teena

The war on terror is a mostly a lie. After the USSR collapsed they needed a new bogey man to keep the masses afraid and suppressed.

Zibigniew Brezezinski in his book 'The Grand Chessboard' fore told of what was coming." What we need is a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat" "We need a new Pearl Harbour" That new Pearl Harbour was the attacks of 911.They needed terrorism to subjugate we the masses. We got Howard's Sedition Laws and the USA got the Patriot Act and the NDAA.

http://www.ae911truth.org/ and http://patriotsquestion911.com/ Thousands of professionals and ex senior Military do not believe the official story.

Globally we are seeing the enactment of corporate fascism and the removal of any rights we had.

Thanks David-VK3AUU

For your comments. There may be generational differences between the older Imams (who met Brandis) with young men perhaps considering them old fogies - not a good situation. Activists in their 30s who make themselves out as religious leaders could be the main problem. Do you think withholding passports to prevent young men leaving Australia would be any solution?
--

Hi Teena

Yes terrorism problems in UK and Europe have been worse than here - with closer proximity of Europe to the Middle East-Somalia-Iran-Pakistan being a factor.

Indonesia does seem to receive vastly too little attention on political changes and terrorism. Sally Neigbour wrote an excellent book on the Indonesian JI network (and Australian connections) in the early 2000s http://www.sallyneighbour.com/files/Austn_Defence_Assoc_Review.pdf .

Human rights and privacy concerns are indeed important as ongoing principles and essential considerations in lawmaking. A particular instance of concern for privacy in the amendments up for decision include parts of Chapter 2 of http://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees?url=pjcis/nsl2012/report.htm - a bit of a goldmine on security thinking. Chapter 2 file:///C:/Users/Peter/Downloads/http---www.aphref.aph.gov.au-house-committee-pjcis-nsl2012-report-chapter%202%20(1).PDF (pages 14 to 16) comments on the concept of proportionality of (Snowden style) electronic surveillance and privacy and makes a Recommendation.
--

Hi Arjay

9/11, the Bali Bombings, the Madrid Bombings and London 7/7 Bombings together represented thousands of Westerners dead and cost tens of $Billions in economic damage. Would you call that a lie?

What some now forgotten Cold Warrior like Zibigniew Brezezinski wrote doesn't refute those bombings. Brezezinski was a contemporary of Henry Kissinger. Would you trust Kissinger on anything?

If you want a fresh new conspiracy theory forget 911 "Truth". Read "Bin Laden's imprisonment from 2005" at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=15855 . The latter is so plausible that certain people who call the shots get touchy when I write too many 2010 self-generated liaison details about it. Years after Obama leaves office this bin Laden theory (yes bin Laden was killed on 2 May 2011) will become respectable.

Cheers

Pete

<<We may be of many faiths but we are Australians first so shouldn't be ruled by religion.>>

So the author expects us to betray God for... some human-made idol - the state.

Not only are we not Australians first - we are not even human first.
We are but short-term visitors in this universe, in this planet and in this continent, so our loyalty should be to our true essence - to God alone!

God is not a terrorist. The kingdom of God is within each one of us, in our hearts and is enforced by bonds of love, not by weapons. Those who [ab]use the name of God for promoting terrorism are not religious - but hypocrite. They are nationalists of the worst kind, wishing their tribe to gain territory at the expense and torture of others, but faking religion as a pretext only to get what they want on earth.

Let us not be nationalists like them.

Look Peter Coates, people like you wanted multiculturalism and now you have got it. "Racists" like me did not want any part of it. We warned people like yourself that ignoring our traditional European immigration sources and bringing third worlders from violent cultures would be catastrophic for the maintenances of law and order in this country. Especially if we brought people from cultures like Islam who have traditionally been our enemies for centuries and who are not yet civilised enough to live in a western democracy.

The result has been the ethnic ghettoisation of Australia, particularly Sydney with high rates of welfare dependency and serious criminal behaviour, "white flight" and now terrorism. Welcome to multicultural Australia. You people are incredible. You create an endemic problem with your insistence on western countries embracing fairyland ideals, then you moan and groan when the entirely predicted negative results of your stupidity cause the responsible people in your society to change our laws to make them more oppressive, to ameliorate the problem that you created.

Your position is that Australia could have avoided it had we not involved ourselves in foreign wars. Australia's defence policy has always been to fight to the last American, and our defence spending has never been lower. As a proportion of GDP we are spending less now than in the Great Depression. Therefore, we have alliances with countries who are not as cheap or as stupid as we are. In 1939, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Poland and Czechoslovakia were neutral and where did that get them? They are not stupid anymore. They are NATO and they support their allies when attacked.

One reason why so many people are allies of the USA is because the yanks are the world's policeman, and they make great friends and bad enemies. Nobody ever thought that anyone would be stupid enough to attack the USA, but the Muslims don't think like intelligent races. The USA's allies honoured their commitments and if the Muslims want to fight us, they can take the lot of us on and we are going to beat them

Plantagenet, The London 7/7 Bombings had many question marks over them. A senior Indonesian politician said about the Bali Bombings, the first bomb was ours but the really big one was not.

They are called false flag events and at least 50 have been documented in our history eg the Hilters Reichstag fire he blamed on the communists, the Lusitania, the Gulf on Tonkin, Israel's attack on the USS Liberty 1967 etc.

Agree with most of your as usual pragmatism Pete. [You should be running the country!] But add, if power corrupts then absolute power corrupts absolutely.
We, who may be subject to endless new laws and new powers self conferred by power hungry, narcissistic ministers, and all in the name of deterring home grown terrorism.
Need a bill of irrevocable rights, if only to ensure, if any responsible minister oversteps his or her authority, there will be a means to remediation and possible damages?
By the way, just heard that the collective noun for a group of baboons is a parliament?
The very last time I looked at question time, I wondered, how on earth could anyone make that startling comparison!?
Rhrosty.

Hi Yuyutsu

My take on all this is - its how people interpret what they think God is telling them that is a problem or a solution. Within all faiths there are contradictions and disagreements on what the Word is.

Any justification of aggression in the name of a God or religion is wrong. In contrast all people are - or should be - equal under secular law. Secular law is legitimate and supported by democracy.

I agree that nationalism can also be made evil depending on what interpretations are manufactured or accepted.

The main thing is what we have in common in Australia – in pursuit of understanding and feelings of unity.

Regards

Pete

Plantagenet you might be surprised to know that ASIS had very little skill in the handling of weapons, or any other tactical capacity of consequence. Back in the early 1990's I was asked to provide specific training in special protective measures, in order to enable operatives to work in O/S missions, determined as high risk. After the first couple of weeks of this training, I enquired if they wished to have their operatives, trained in the defensive/offensive application of edged weapons and other covert weapons? Apparently, my simple enquiry was met with a resounding no! The question had generated with many of those I/C, a high level of anxiety and disquiet, the proposition that their operatives were to be instructed in such measures? The operatives concerned, were amazed at this response? Interestingly this was some few years after the embarrassing events that occurred at the Sheraton Hotel in Melbourne. Ergo, the notion that ASIS was both proficient and capable of providing strategic and tactical training to anyone, is quite extraordinary really!

Hi Arjay

I haven't heard much mythology on the 7/7 bombings - particularly as evidence consisted of ample CCTV, forensic evidence and relatives accounts of the well identified killers.

Politicians, be they from Indonesia or elsewhere, are not noted for telling all of the truth, all of the time. What Indonesian and Australian police discovered about the Bali bombings may be more trustworthy.

No doubt about it that:

- the Nazis set up a nutter to burn down the Reichstag,

- the Gulf on Tonkin was a setup (US destroyers had been shelled the North Vietnamese shore a short time before the "Incident"),

- yes Israel did positively identify the USS Liberty as a US ship before they straffed it, and

- that the usual band of anti-CIA, anti-Semitic, anti-Mossad lobby developed the 9/11 "Truth" cult.
--

Hi misanthrope

Noted

Regards

Pete

Hi Rhrosty

Thanks for those compliments. Hopefully the new legistation when passed, will be a proportional response to threats in Australia. And less a response to US security priorities and structures (including the worldwide technical surveillance network).

I trust the relevant officials and Ministers, to a degree, that they won't go overboard. A bit of a shame that the Independent National Security Monitor role is being abolished at the same time all these security amendments are being introduced...

Yes hooting baboons, and maybe the odd chimp, would feel at home during Question Time :) A disservice to the authority of monkeys indeed.

Here's one of the better Parliamentary Addresses http://youtu.be/QvsQ9hYKq7c - hard to tell whose the PM and whose Shorten.

Cheers

Pete

Plantagenet, there were 3 towers that came down on 911 and they all came down at near free fall speeds which is impossible for aircraft fuelled fires to achieve. It defies the laws of physics. WTC7 was not hit by a plane yet displayed all the traits of a controlled demolition.

http://www.ae911truth.org/ You really need to study this site as they were here in 2009 and provided irrefutable evidence that the official story is totally flawed. I have personally met Richard Gage Prof Steven Jones, our Dr Frank Legge and Prof Niels Harrit. It was Nano Thermite a highly advanced military explosive that brought down these buildings. Very few people knew about at that time.

It was not only Jews like Larry Silverstein who knew about it. The Nazi element in the USA and Britian knew exactly what they were doing.

....and the yanks never landed on the moon. ....and Harold Holt was a Chinese spy who was picked up by a Chinese submarine at Cheviot beach. .....and the Port Arthur massacre was committed by an SAS soldier on the orders of the Howard government so that the Australian government could confiscate all semi auto firearms. ....and that the USA invaded Iraq to steal the oil. ....and that the yanks invade Germany to destroy the German beer industry. .....and that the yanks knew the Japs were coming to Pearl Harbour but they deliberately let the Japs sink half their Pacific Fleet so that they had an excuse to enter the war.

Geez. What do you people use for brains? Talk about Olympic class stupidity.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/59295/british-jihadists-how-much-of-a-threat-do-they-pose :

Security services estimate that up to 500 young Muslim men have left the UK to fight alongside terrorist organisations in Syria and Iraq, the BBC reports [on Friday].

“Extremist groups such as Isis use various social media sites…

The message appeals to those want to help their fellow Muslims in Syria and Iraq and feel frustrated by the lack of intervention from the West, the New York Times reports.

However, the Guardian's Joanna Burke argues that while faith and ideology play an important part in the appeal of groups like Isis, many of these men are driven by more than just religion.

"The glamorising of violence and military culture has effects beyond any particular group. It is not unique to young Muslim men – or, indeed, young men in Cardiff – to be excited by the prospect of combat."

According to the [UK Prime Minister] David Cameron, "it is a greater threat to the UK than the return of foreign jihadists or fighters from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region."

In a recent report, Barrett describes the conflict in the region as "an incubator for a new generation of terrorists".

One British jihadist tweeted this week that the UK 'should be afraid of what I have learnt' in Syria alongside a picture of apparent homemade bombs.

What is the government doing to counter it?

Most of the work being done to combat home-grown extremists is carried out by the intelligence services.

Several people have been charged with "involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism" and new laws have been pushed through allowing the government confiscate the passports of identified jihadists, the Telegraph reports.

The [UK] Home Office also has the power to strip extremists of their British passports, but this can only be done if they have dual nationality as they cannot be left stateless.

The government has distributed leaflets in [UK] Muslim neighbourhoods encouraging people to come forward if they suspect a friend or family member may be planning to travel to the region to fight and warning people that returning jihadists will face prosecution.”

Arjay said;
they all came down at near free fall speeds which is impossible for aircraft fuelled fires to achieve. It defies the laws of physics

Please explain, how does falling at free fall speed defy the laws of physics ?
Surely that is the law of physics !

On the counter-terrorism legislation front a small win for checks and balances.

My article a fortnight ago said http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=16460 :

"The proposed amendments also draw on recommendations in the latest Annual Report of the outgoing Independent National Security Legislation Monitor (INSLM), Bret Walker... Checks and balances are important particularly over major changes to counter-terrorism laws, but it appears one check is to be abolished. While these major counter-terrorism legislative amendments are to be proposed the Federal Government is recommending that to save money and reduce duplication the position of INSLM should be terminated (see this Brisbane Times article).Bret Walker as the current monitor said on page 3 of the 2014 INSLM Annual Report: "The INSLM is not aware of any other officer, agency or "level" of government doing what Parliament required to be done by the INSLM Act enacted in 2010.''"

The AG's Media Release - National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 - 16 July 2014 today says http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.au/Mediareleases/Pages/2014/ThirdQuarter/16July2014-NationalSecurityLegislationAmendmentBillNo12014.aspx

"The Government is committed to maintaining and, where necessary, strengthening our strong legal and oversight framework. Given these measures, and potential further changes stemming from the Government's comprehensive review of Australia's national security legislation, [THE KEY BIT FOLLOWS] the Government has decided to retain the position of the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor. The Government is also considering providing additional resources to the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security."

Yay!

There has been complaints on privacy and objection to tracking etc
on human rights grounds.
I wonder if those objecting would appreciate being asked about the rights of the dead ?

Ask the relatives of those that died in Bali.

The objections are not valid anyway because the enormous size of the
databases that would be involved means they would be searched not by
hand but by computer program by email address, name or telephone
number if suspicion had already fallen on an individual.

Searches of the whole database would also be made looking for
phrases, words etc that would indicate a particular activity.
So don't mention bombs etc etc or someone may read your email.
Someone may read this email, hi ! Hello there !

Anyway this is the penalty we pay for bringing in that group of migrants.

Hi Bazz

This speech, made on 16-7-2014 in Parliament, covers most of the issues you mention http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.au/Mediareleases/Documents/second-reading-speech-national-security-legislation-amendment-bill-2014-16july2014.pdf .

Certainly people coming into Australia raise issues. Overall compromises need to be made (eg. no total privacy) within a system that has checks and balances.

Regards

Pete