jimbo and One under god, the claim that Bryant was innocent and there was a conspiracy does no-one any credit.

I looked into the claims of the various conspiracy prophets as they came out and they display an amazing weeeeeakness. Firstly, there was a lot of ALL CAPS shouting about INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE, Tavistock and psyops. Second, the language and logical structure always assumed the consequent, what is also called begging the question. That means that everthing they saw or said was framed into the evidence assuming the preferred cock and bull story was true.

See what I did there?

In general when stuff happens there are viewpoints and reconciling stories that dont say the same things or misunderstand stuff that was at different times or places and assume that they are talking about the same things. People misremember all the time. This always happens worse in disasters and war. Our pet conspiracy theorists find all this stuff and go into warp drive.

Guard your rationality, people.

☛anyhow the bill of rights/they will claim..isnt a right..[rights have become duty].the act that gives can be taken away/i used the magna carta/but higher rulings have denied/them standing☚

the BoR/1689 *does* apply in Australia....despite the bogus "Australia Act";

the proof is that it has been utilised, on several occasions, by various journalists and politicians to support the right to free speech....and....there have been court cases wrt this...
so...they can't "cherry pick" rights out of it....
because...the BoR/1689 contains clear and unequivocal provisions on the rights of "subjects" to own fire-arms for self-defence puposes....and....most of the legal commentaries on it support this..

Howard's BS gun laws also clearly violated the Commonwealth Crimes Act 1914....specifically.... s24AB, ss1(c) and ss2(a)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca191482/ ;

as such: Howard and Fischer should have been arrested for TREASON!

for more info' on the abv.....contact Ron Owen of Owen Guns, Gympie, Qld...

http://www.facebook.com/owenguns ;

☛"the claim that Bryant was innocent and there was a conspiracy does no-one any credit.

I looked into the claims of the various conspiracy prophets"☚

yeh...you see....as soon as you start spouting "New World Order"-speak like "conspiracy theory/theorists", you automatically put yr-self into the ENEMY camp for those who, for wtf-ever reasons, doubt the official media accounts of...well....lotsa things....uh....you know!!....that's why they used to have this little Monday night TV show on ABC1 a while back called "Media Watch"....

and....having labelled yr-self an out-and-out ENEMY rather than some-one with an open, inquiring mind, us sceptics tend to blank you out of any further discusssion....because the issue(s) as such cannot now be settled by discussion and debate....only by VIOLENCE!!

A bit away from the subject and apologies for that, however in one of the links posted the Wandering Warriors charity was mentioned. Just to take an opportunity to recognise their work and link to the site for any who might have been unaware,

http://wanderingwarriors.org/

OK, done and please carry on.

Back to the thread, with an election imminent, John Howard the politician wanted to look masterful and decisive, and he had a populist 'solution' that would make him look good and would side-step any possible blow-back from the closure and sale of Commonwealth rehabilitation and mental health facilities. Some here would possibly be aware of (say) the splendid facilities where people with marginal IQ (Bryant is one such) could find worthwhile things to occupy them and be away from the frustration, exasperation and resulting anger they experience trying to deal with usual everyday events. Their families and carers would agree.

That is not to excuse or explain Bryant's horrendous crimes, but simply to note that if anyone would have been aware of the need for an aspiring PM to look decisive and manage the media, it was the grey, battered old Pheonix who was arising from the ashes of previous political disappointments, namely John Howard.

'Gun control' was a master stroke and met all of the conditions of any politician who was ever in need of a virus to infect minds. The result? The opposition could hardly criticise the monumental waste of money on a veritable mountain of bureaucratic 'controls' that did no better than the ordinary, time-honoured effective and robust control - the firearms licence - that was already in existence. The rest is history, as are the wasted billions of taxpayers dough.

BTW, Bryant owned and drove cars, both in Australia and abroad. The car was a critical element in his planning, setting up and commission of his offences. He didn't go for a licence because he wouldn't pass, he said. He wouldn't have got a firearms licence either and broke laws in getting illegal guns too.

Howard's 'gun-control' and wasted $$billions couldn't have stopped him either.

10,000 Americans per year shot to death by other Americans. That's the immovable elephant in the gunnies' squalid room. They point to responsible registered gun owners as fine pillars of society (the law since 1996 is that you won't get registered unless your character stands close scrutiny -- that's the law those agitating for more killing power are railing against and seek to weaken).

They ascribe gun deaths to a flurry of other causes that they claim should be tackled instead - lunacy, subterfuge, the drive in freaks to kill people, the ethnicity of Americans killing and being killed, violent TV culture - you name it the gun nutters will grasp at it to protect their firepower. The one common factor in all gun homicides is the availability of the gun to do it with.

True there are still gun killings in Australia. True this calls for changes in the pioneering Howard laws. They need to be enforced more vigorously and amended where appropriate to strengthen them, not weaken them.

What can the average Joe and Jill do about it? As a first, challenge and continue to challenge all parties to demote gun freaks to the bottom of their electoral preferences. They get seats because of backroom deals among party apparatchiks, not because the voters want them any more than they want leprosy.

EmperorJulian,

Have another go. You consistently fail to answer a simple question.

A reminder for you,

<@EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 2:11:03 PM

What you are not saying is that the offenders and victims of weapons offences in the US are almost invariably young blacks from poor neighborhoods. They are most often members of gangs and drugs are involved. There is a lot of money in drugs and enforcement of payment, theft and protection of territory are common motivations for violence.

Note that I referred to weapons, because the gun is only one of the tools used to kill and injure. There are reasons why other weapons might be preferred, for example horror and less risk of detection (noise) and tracing, but no one here is much interested in any of that.

Has anyone wondered why political animals and accomplished masters of spin and wedge politics such as Australia's John Howard and US President Barack Obama have never discovered those inconvenient facts? Cynical populism trumps statesmanship.

If it is claimed that the lone wolves who carry out multiple killings can be deterred or stopped through John Howard's bureaucratic BS 'gun control' that only affects and is complied with by the respectable law-abiding citizens who would never offend and are in fact the mainstays of peaceful, civil society, lets have it.

Please show us exactly how John Howard's 'gun control' would have stopped Bryant, or any of the other evil fiends who killed in Australia?...>

You have not learned anything at all from facts posted here and you are devoid of any answers to arguments put by others, LEGO's posts for example.