To Steelredux

I am surprised that you are claiming that Australian society is not becoming more violent. I don't remember the western suburbs of Sydney resounding in gunfire almost every night in my youth, nor blazing banner headlines every Monday morning recounting the latest drive by shooting incidents involving certain ethnicities and their endless family feuds and honour killings.

Violent crime in Australia has been rising exponentially since the sixties, according to my source, "Rising Crime in Australia" by Lucy Sullivan, (Centre for Independent Studies). Armed robbery in particular has gone right out of control, while the almost unknown crime of kidnapping for ransom has also exploded. New terms have had to be invented to describe violent crimes now prevalent which Australia almost never experienced before. "Home invasions", "fossil banging" (attacking old people) "drive by shootings", "car jackings", "coward punches", and NSW has experienced Australia's first political assassination. Then there are new terms like "surf rage", "pool rage", "road rage", "roid rage", "referee rage" and even "hospital rage" where hospitals now employ security guards to protect staff. The NSW ambulance service changed it's uniform from a blue shirt to a white one because so many patients and their families were attacking them because they mistook ambulance personnel for police.

In June 2000, the Canberra based Australian Institute of Criminology said it was "puzzled" at the rise in violent crime (including murder) now being committed by juveniles. This paralleled the USA where juvenile gang homicide is that nations fastest growing crime statistic. Nobody know what to call the new phenomenon of kids killing kids. "Junior Rambo's'? "Psychokids", "Gunkids"?, "Schoolboy Terminators"?

In July 2000, (the same year that 70 Australian girls were gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs in Sydney), the NSW Corrective Services released a press statement saying that NSW jails were now "full to capacity." Four new prisons had been built only recently as opposed to only one new university.

to be continued

continued

But prison numbers continued to swell to the extent that NSW Corrective services had to reopen two ancient prisons (Bowral, Parramatta), despite the widespread use of new non custodial sentences such as home detention and community service.

Your premise that Australia's homicide rate is not rising can be easily dismissed. According to the NSW Bureau for Crime Statistics "shoot with intent" incidences rose significantly between 1995 and 2000. This means that more people are being shot at and missed, and more people are being shot and are surviving, than ever before. The reason why people are surviving gunshot and knife wounds today, is because of such technological advances as mobile phones, well equipped ambulances staff by well trained paramedics who are video linked to surgeons, and advanced infection fighting drugs.

The point I am making is that Australian society is getting more violent but it has never been the mere easy availability of guns which has caused that. The severity of gun laws area litmus paper test of how sick your society is becoming. Continuing to tweak the gun laws will not achieve anything more because our politicians are aiming at the wrong target. However much we as a people enjoy the freedom to watch anything we like, do we really need media which endorses the joys of raping your mother? Bashing your girlfriend bitch? Taking illegal drugs? The US Army uses first peson shooter games to desensitize soldiers to the act of killing people. In Australia, we sell such products to kids as games.

This need not entail censorship. There are other ways to skin a rat. Product liability is a fact of life for every other manufacturer. Simply extending product liability to the entertainment media would put a damper on so much anti social media directed at children, now being sold to them by this vice industry. This is something which terrifies "artists" and their employers. It is also the reason why the artistic caste is now pushing for a US "Human Rights" agenda involving "the Right to Free Expression" to sanctify their greed and social irresponsibility

>>It always makes my day when gun lobbyists raise good old Switzerland as their poster child.

Let's go to the figures.

The UK has a rate of 0.04 gun related homicides per 100,000 citizens and a rate of 0.18 gun related suicides per year.

Switzerland has figures of 0.52 and 3.15 respectively.

So to crystallise the figures for you the Swiss are shooting each other at 13 times the rate of the Poms and topping themselves with guns at a staggering 17 times the UK rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Australia's rates are .13 and .73 respectively, about a quarter that of the Swiss.<<

blah blah blah....

*again* we see the typical tactics of the psycho gun-grabbers .....
having been rebutted, they then wait a while and return with the same BS 'arguments'....

OK...

the UK & 0zz stats are BOGUS.....
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.2/gun-facts-6-2-screen.pdf ;

the UK stats are *totally* bogus.....because, if you read the 'pdf', you'll find that UK Home Office *only* reports violent crimes *upon conviction*.....*NOT* upon commission....so....IOW: the stats are prblby 'out' by @ least a coupla orders of magnitude......try multiplying by 100....you might get a better idea....

as i'v stated previously, 0zz stats can't be relied upon *either* because gov.au has a gun-grabbing agenda to push....
*only* peer-reviewed studies are acceptable...so.....*cite* those or STFU....k?
(i cite the McPhearden/Baker and the Saurdi/Lee studies as *proof* of the total ineffectiveness of Howard's BS gun laws!)

oh....BTW....a few yrs back, an Assitant Commissioner of VicPol (Sir Ken Jones) actually *resigned* in protest over violent crime stats being 'down-played'....that was during Overland's tenure as Chief Cmmsnr......

re: "LEGO"

any-one who says that 0zz society is not becoming *more* violent...in fact, since Howard's gun grab, *much* more violent has, quite frankly, got their head up their rear orifices!

a simple !google! search will quickly establish that there has been and is *an ALARMING* increase in armed, violent home invasions....

http://tinyurl.com/0zz-hm-invsns-ggl-rslts;

and....of course, as predicted by the pretty much irrefutable academic studies of the likes of Prssfr John R Lott of the US, once the average punter is disarmed, the crims, the thugs, the hoons and the tyrants become more and more *emboldened*.....as they use *their* firearms, acquired from their crim' mates, to terrorise the general populace!

http://tinyurl.com/hm-invsn-0zz-101 ;

Dear LEGO,

You claim a certain expertise in debating thus I am a little surprised you would quote research from over 2 decades ago to support your contention that violence is increasing in Australia.

Lucy Sullivan's paper from which you cite as your primary source was published in 1997 but to make matters worse its figures look at crime only until 1993.

You do provide other material but even that suffers from lack of currency being well over a decade old.

If you go to the Australian Bureau of Statistics web site you will find far more current information with a comparison of the last 5 years. Since you have questioned the validity of homicide rates as a measure of violence our only recourse is to look directly at both physical and sexual assault rates across the nation.

There is further data on crimes like robbery on the person, threatening assault etc but as these two are directly linked to violence I am happy to make my case with them.

Physical Assault Australia

2008-09 527,400 cases reported Rate 3.1
2012-13 498,000 cases reported Rate 2.7

Sexual Assault Australia

2008-09 52,500 cases reported Rate 0.3
2012-13 40,700 cases reported Rate 0.2

The more recent and thus relevant BOSCAR data by the NSW Bureau for Crime Statistics (whom you referenced) show a spike in violent crime occurring within a few years of Howard's gun laws at nearly 115 per 100,000 people then a marked decline ever since. It currently sits at around 90 per 100,000 people seasonally adjusted.

That is my evidence which I can expand on if required. From this I repeat the contention that the trend in violent crimes in Australia is indeed downward.

If you are still intent on contending otherwise I invite you to now make that case.

[Deleted for abuse.]