The Forum > Article Comments > The IPCC now says it’s OK to adapt to ‘climate change’ > Comments
The IPCC now says it’s OK to adapt to ‘climate change’ : Comments
By Don Aitkin, published 11/4/2014It seems to me that the IPCC may well be coming to the view that if it is to survive, it will have to have more than the mitigation arrow in its quiver.
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Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 9:21:10 PM
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You must be pretty upset with Plimer's book being sent to hundreds of schools by IPA; cohenite. Your reference doesn't relate to Australia; it looks as though it is British. I agree propaganda should not be sent to schools.
The material sent to schools from the Federal Department of Climate Change and Energy was for teachers who were given information so they could correct any views that students might raise in relation to climate change. The matter of concern really is about the IPA sending propaganda to schools, Crikey explained that the DCCE was wanting to correct misinformation. You question the terms I use; for example, "ice sheet",copy and paste https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ice+sheets+melting&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU522AU522&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FU1OU4yLEoXtkAXBwoHYBA&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667 There are captions with each photo, map, and diagram. I hadn't mentioned the Andes in relation to glaciers retreating before http://www.nature.com/news/melting-in-the-andes-goodbye-glaciers-1.11759 It’s a matter of goodbye glaciers in the Andes, though ground water might still be available to the population. A film about glaciers in the Himalaya, a melting glacier in Montana is mentioned. http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/516/ The glaciers in the Antarctic area are more contentious some glaciers are retreating while others are quite stable. http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/antarctic-glaciers-nearing-collapse-20140331 http://www.livescience.com/42622-pine-island-glacier-retreating.html Glaciers are retreating in Africa too http://io9.com/5886047/there-are-still-glaciers-right-in-the-middle-of-africafor-now There has been retreat of glaciers in Russia as well. http://glacierchange.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/psysh-glacier-retreat-western-caucasus-russia/ A comment being " The Caucasus region has been experiencing widespread significant retreat (Shahgedanova et al 2009), with average retreat of 8 m per year due in large part to increased summer temperature." There are melting glaciers in Greenland, Iceland, Canada, Alaska, Montana, the Andes, the Himalaya, Norway, Russia, and Antarctica as well. It is reasonable to conclude that warming is happening when pretty well everywhere around the planet glaciers are retreating, there are some exceptions. For example out of 1,400 glaciers in the Yukon 4 have increased. Posted by ant, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 9:54:36 PM
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http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171434/Satellite-study-Asian-mountains-glaciers-NOT-melting--actually-gaining-new-ice.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Glacier http://new.aig.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/AIGnews_Aug09.pdf http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/23/breaking-news-scientist-admits-ipcc-used-fake-data-to-pressure-policy-makers/#more-15589 http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200801121040.htm http://www.iceagenow.com/Glaciers_growing_in_Spain_%28Pyrinees%29.htm Keep going ant; you'll come up with something some day. Posted by cohenite, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 11:11:49 PM
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Cohenite,
This discussion is not useless. Look, I am not in this for profit. I delve into relevant matters because change to ocean ecosystems is causing seafood shortage and malnutrition and disease amongst seafood dependent Pacific Islands and other people. Some of those people are long term friends of mine. So I am asking for your help with some answers. Example. As the oceans are a sink for CO2 and as CO2 has radiation absorbing properties, do you know of any scientific reference to warmth in CO2 being taken up in ocean algae? Apart from on OLO, have you seen or heard anything at all on the subject? My focus on warmth in algae has been on increased matter retaining warmth for an increased period of time in water. Now it seems radiation absorbed in CO2 may be adding a slight degree of warmth to living ocean algae matter. The basic experiment I did with dried pea soup vegetable matter from the supermarket, showed warmth being carried for about 5 hours into hours of night, whereas clear water cooled much quicker. That approximately 5 hour increase tallies with what I learned 50 years ago about stock troughs carrying warmth into the night Since discussion on this thread I am now wondering if a slight degree of CO2 associated warmth in living algae may last longer than say 5 hours, following sunset. I think warmth in ocean algae is important as ocean warms atmosphere, perhaps more and more into hours of night, but not all atmosphere of the globe at the same time. (that AGW global inference is too general and I think that is causing at least some or the friction between warmists and sceptics) Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 17 April 2014 8:57:50 AM
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Just had a peak at one of Cohenite's links:
<<Here's a (partial) list of the specific glaciers that are growing>> My first reaction was Wow! if this is true this alone should debunk AGW. Then I remembered AGW's old get-out-of-jail card: If it is too hot it's AGW If it is too cold it's AGW Unless, it is Goldilocks-like its evidence of AGW. What's the betting that AGW.10 will have the line: "Yes, the glaciers are growing but, that's all because of extreme weather" Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 17 April 2014 10:50:50 AM
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Cohenite, I have mentioned a couple of times that there have been some glaciers that have increased in size ( wrote about the 4, 300 out of 1400 previously). But the vast majority have been retreating or have died. “Glacial retreat is being observed in North America and throughout the world, and many glaciers have completely disappeared in recent decades. About 150 glaciers were observed in Glacier National Park, Montana in 1850, and about the same number in 1910 when the Park was established. A survey of the Park in 2010 revealed only 25 glaciers.” From http://www.thisisclimatechange.org/glacial-retreat/
From your own reference…”The study concluded that though there has been a two to three degree Celsius temperature rise in the region, there has also been a corresponding increase in the amount of snowfall….” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Glacier Previously you referenced a paper by Michael Beenstock and Yaniv Reingewertz, about greenhouse gas forcings being temporary; however, whether that is the case or not, should greenhouse gases continue to increase as they have been, then it is rather an academic argument. You use Watts again as a reference; he has no qualifications, and has been debunked a number of times. Your Hindi source suggests particular geographic circumstances. Glaciers have been retreating in New Zealand … http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7279904/Our-frozen-assets-slowly-melting-away As you used Wikepedia, here is an over view of what is happening http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850#Alaska The big but though is that the two largest stores of ice by far are in Greenland and Antarctica, and a combination of all the other glaciers makes up a small overall percentage of ice in comparison. http://digitaljournal.com/news/environment/greenland-s-jakobshavn-glacier-retreating-at-record-speeds/article/369185 There is a total of 99% of all land locked ice contained in Greenland and Antarctica. http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2013/05/16/world%E2%80%99s-melting-glaciers-making-large-contribution-sea-rise Like so many things that deniers try to present in a linear manner, there are seasonal and yearly fluctuations, trends are noticed over a number of years. Here is an oversight of glacial measures for 2011/2012 http://www.wgms.ch/mbb/sum12.html In 2014 ice sheets are retreating in Greenland, as has been noticed for anumber of years.. http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113096781/climate-change-causes-greenland-ice-sheet-melt-031714/ cohenite, have you found that reference Goddard attributed to IPCC, yet? Posted by ant, Thursday, 17 April 2014 11:38:56 AM
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Four or five hours, perhaps?
Surely radiation absorbing properties of natural and unprecedented sewage nutrient proliferated ocean and fresh water algae plant matter should be measured and assessed in AGW science.