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Psychological harm, anti-vaccination and the Racial Discrimination Act : Comments
By Tanveer Ahmed, published 9/4/2014But at what point should the special treatment of race pass? Australia has been among the most successful and cohesive multicultural societies for several decades.
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Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 11:40:13 AM
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Looks like the author isn't truly concerned about racism and such, but uses its non-prevalence as a pretext to undermine the ability of minorities to defend themselves as a group. His hidden agenda is for doctors to rule the world and eradicate religion from the face of the earth, locking up all who do not accept his materialistic/scientific paradigm in mental hospitals and similar reform-camps.
Dear Rhrosty, Majorities don't need a bill of rights since they already have all the power in the world through their political representation anyway. Certainly medical doctors (and the sheep who follow them) don't need any more rights since their Mafia, the AMA, already gets to pass whatever legislation they like in parliament, granting them practically unlimited power and funds. <<And it ought to include a right by the majority, to not include kids in public education or in other public forums, whose ignorant parents have refused to vaccinate>> No objection on my side, but what about the rights of minorities (vaccinated or otherwise) to have nothing to do with the public education#########indoctrination system in the first place? Or is your suggestion perhaps intended just for that, as a back-door, to allow parents and their kids to avoid school by claiming (truly or falsely) that they are not vaccinated? Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 1:03:01 PM
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As a middle aged White male I can say that the constant public racial vilification and prejudice expressed by others against people of my demographic does start to wear on me the more I experience it.
The experience of being told that all the trouble in the world is your fault, that you are the recipient of unearned "privilege", having your very being described as "toxic masculinity" and having women clutch their purse and lower their gaze as they walk past you on the street does cause stress to accumulate over time but I don't think it causes mental illness. The key here is the extent to which the individual member of a stigmatised group is aware of the stigma attached to his person, that awareness comes from interaction with people of other demographic groups, I'm aware of Anti White, misandric attitudes because I go looking for them but talking to other White men they are mostly unaware of any such thing, the same must surely be true of other groups. If you spend the bulk of your time with people just like you then you're not likely to experience much "Racism", I'm reminded of the scene in the film "Defamation' when Yoav is in a Taxi going to the airport in Tel Aviv. He's trying to explain to the driver that he's flying to the U.S to make a film about Anti Semitism and the driver asks "What's Anti Semitism?", Yoav replies "When people hate the Jews", the driver furrows his brow and says "Really?" The reality is that on some levels people will trust those of different ages, gender or race over people of their own group, they prefer to engage with them in some circumstances but not others. Childcare for example, most White people with the means would not hire a White nanny, I know when we had our kids in daycare I was inexplicably more comfortable when the middle aged Lebanese woman with the Hijab and her Filipina 2IC were on duty than when the two White girls were there. Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 1:29:48 PM
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"our growing maturity"
How about getting really mature and stop this incremental totalitarianism, where the state thinks it has to stick its nose into every nook and cranny of our lives. Parents who don't vaccinate their children are not responsible for the actions of bacteria and viruses. The *pathogens* are responsible, and the children may never even encounter them. It should not be a crime to allow a child to be sick. Getting sick is part of nature/life, allowing the immune system to "exercise" itself. Rhrosty, what do vaccinated children have to fear from the unvaccinated? Words, not matter how nasty, cannot cause any true harm. Unless you allow them to. And that is *your* choice. Racists should be allowed to be racist (e.g. not hiring minority workers), while others are free to oppose them (picketing that store, badmouthing them on Facebook). Liberty is more valuable than comfort/safety. But we are losing it inch by inch, as the state tries to "protect" us. Posted by Shockadelic, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 2:37:20 PM
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Yuyutstu,
Majorities may not, as claimed by you, need a bill of rights, but minorities clearly do! We remain the only western democracy without one! If we had a bill of rights, people who had done nothing more than give away a no longer useful SIM card to a cousin? Couldn't be incarcerated without just cause, or actual evidence of wrong doing! Ditto people with a mental illness or disability! Nor could kids be kept incarcerated for years, for the sins of their parents? That said, I'd require unidentifiable paperless asylum seekers to go through a proven verification process, space age lie detection procedure, that not even psychopaths/war criminals/compulsive liars could beat, to much more accurately, confirm just who and what they were? Before their women and children could be released into the community, or seek work. I have an inherent problem with Tamil tigers seeking asylum here, when India, is just a few miles away, and where there is a very large, very sympathetic Tamil community! And the girl who vilified Adam? Well if I had my druthers, both she and her parents, who have had a large part in her development and a view it was okay to cast hurtful aspersion, would spend two or three years in an aboriginal community of Adam's choice, where they were very much the minority! As for doctors wanting to rule the world? Ha, ha, ho, ho, he, he, oh my aching ribs. You're a very funny person! I can't remember when I've heard anything funnier! Rhrosty. Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 3:03:16 PM
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Shockaholic,
The problem with the non-vaccinated older child, is that any pathogens they may carry with them as unvaccinated carriers, [which is hardly ever the case for the vaccinated,] is other children's very young siblings, before they are old enough to tolerate vaccination. Were you and other ignoramuses to go into any large hospital and be forced to watch, witness a tiny infected baby with transferred whooping cough, unable to stop coughing, and therefore, unable to breath properly, take sustenance or liquids, and slowly surely die in the arms of an inconsolable parent, you'd likely lose your incredibly insensitive, ignorant and irresponsible views! Perhaps? Maybe? Possibly/ If it were your child? You sort of remind me of a big bullying brutish biker, claiming a daily right to chain smoke in a crowded public place, and forcing dozens of nonsmokers to share his habit, chosen drug, and indeed, eventual health consequences. The real problem with the super ignorant, is they're they are often too ignorant, to understand that they are incredibly ignorant! Bit like flat earthers really, who simply avoid incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, on the extremely simplistic grounds, it conflicts with their chosen belief system!? Rhrosty. Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 3:31:00 PM
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Shockadelic, look at it this way:
The deadly superstition of human rights. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewSaQ9u5lwU Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 5:11:26 PM
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The most interesting aspect of Section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act, is that it can cut both ways. Trendies and self interested immigrant identity groups think that it can be used as a weapon to shut up white people who protest about multiculturalism, but it can also be used by white people to counter the constant racist attacks upon the white race.
Take old Tanveer Ahmed's claim about the "Stolen Generations." This particular piece of propaganda laughingly claimed that successive State and Federal governments (of both the right and the left) conspired to "steal" aboriginal children as a means of "breeding out the black" and therefore committing "genocide" of the aboriginal race. This is nothing more than racist slander which demonises white people and "offends, insults, humiliates, and intimidates" us. The propagation of this outrageous lie by Tanveer Ahmed can be considered a race hate crime by white people. Careful Tanveer, with your slander about white people and the "stolen generations." You might be asked in a court of law to prove your assertion, or you might be hoist on your on petard. It is incredible that in Australia in 2014, we now have multiculturalism as a state ideology which is considered by leftists to be so far beyond criticism that freedom of speech has to go. This is Joseph Stalin and North Korea stuff. The measure of freedom of speech in Australia is now the thickness of the skin of some member of a supposedly aggrieved minority group. Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 6:00:45 PM
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Rhrostry your comment about Adam Goodes choosing an Aboriginal Community to send the 13 year old girl and her parents is hilarious. Goodes knows nothing about these communities, he has admitted as much, and if he was placed in some of them, he would be the minority. The more remote, traditional people would call him "yella fella" and laugh at his claims to be just as Aboriginal as they are. The only cred he would have would relate to his football skills, which is exactly how it should be. His small amount of Aboriginal blood should not be the dominant feature of his fame.
As for being a minority within a community, well I lived for 6 years as the only white person in a remote Aboriginal Community. I was subjected to frequent verbal abuse, occasional physical abuse, and, until my sons went through initiation, not allowed any voice in community affairs. Yet never did I even consider complaining about racial discrimination. I accepted the words for what they were, simply a way of venting against problems in their lives. I treated the physical assaults in the best possible way, using the law to lay charges. This is how adults handle these types of issues. You ignore words, and take legal action if a situation goes beyond words. Certainly you dont claim victim status based on the words of a child. Posted by Big Nana, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 6:28:28 PM
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As the erudite philosopher in the link above says "When someone starts talking to you about their rights you use one hand to cover your genitals and the other to protect your wallet".
How about this LEGO, why not just enforce the existing laws equally across the board,and interpret everything literally so calling a White person a "Racist" or an "Invader" becomes actionable? You are of course right, the White Anti-Whites are simply being called out on their BS, the laws were never intended to protect everybody and they're not about "power" differentials. Are the White people being prosecuted over these "racist bus rants" powerful, or are they poor, addicted and disturbed individuals? See That's the best the "Anti Racists" (which is a code word for Anti White) can do, harass, stalk, cyber-bully, intimidate or dob in dumb yobbos, lonely drunks posting nonsense on Facebook and mentally disturbed people. The question has been put; why should White people be dictating what's considered offensive or not on behalf of the whole population? I'd ask the question ,why should ANTI WHITE people be deciding what's offensive and what's not on behalf of the population? Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 6:49:55 PM
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Tanveer you are obiviously owned by corporate interests whose prime objective is profit.
Not all vaccination is beneficial because the profit motive perverts truth and integrity. Just 10 years ago they were using mercury as a preservative in vaccines and never told us. Dr Rima Laidbow and her husband Major General Albert Stubblebine are totally against any vaccination. General Stubble in the 1980's was the director of all army intelligence in the USA. Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 8:50:54 PM
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Hi Jay.
It has already happened. A few years ago, an "American/Australian" got so fed up of the constant America bashing by people like Arjay that he actually took a left wing magazine to the NSW Anti Discrimination Board over their anti Americanism. Naturally, he did not get anywhere. Americans are not the right KIND of minority groups in need of protection from "offence, insults, humiliation or intimidation". But the precedence was set. I would love to take action against all those who call me are "redneck" but who go into paryoxisms of moral outrage over anyone calling a minority member a "coon", a niigger", or a "raghead". If calling people racist names is unacceptable, then calling white people "rednecks" is no less objectionable. But "redneck" is the most common racist slur used against white people. How about those black people on "Q&A" last week who said that freedom of speech was only demanded by "rich white men"? Not just racist, but sexist and ageist as well. That sailed right over the head of the ABC's "Q&A" director who obviously thinks that black people can never be bigots. Take Tanveer little article. Notice how the only "racist" societies he mentions are all white? No mention of the newly independent Africans expelling and racially cleansing all of their Asian populations. No mention of Rwanda. No mention about how his native India is probably the most racist nation on earth where skin colour denotes caste and it is all sanctified by the Hindu religion. Nup, for people like Tanveer, "racists" means "white people." And then he recounts all the crap about colonialism being a causal link to racism of , as if no non white civilisation ever engaged in a bit of colonialism and racism themselves. But at least Tanveer is smart enough to realise that section 18c has to go. But his reasoning, which is skewed to keep the faith with his ethnic support base, defends free speech with faint praise. Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 10 April 2014 4:28:02 AM
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Rhrosty, "If it were your child?"
Then it would be my responsibility. You are expecting parents to be responsible for *other* people's children! "I must vaccinate my children, not just for their benefit, but to protect *other* people's children". Ridiculous! The non-smokers at the biker's pub can leave. They can go to a specifically designated non-smoking area or another premises. They have choices too. So should the pub owners. They, not the state, should decide whether smoking is permitted on their premises. Life is full of risks, and you should have the liberty to evaluate them for yourself. Posted by Shockadelic, Thursday, 10 April 2014 5:11:37 AM
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In the Adam Goodes saga, the young girl was ferociously berated for her ignorant and prejudiced beliefs, "beliefs for a different age", says Tanveer.
The young girl called Goodes an ape in the Swans versus Magpies match. If she called him a 'lame duck' or nearly any other bird or animal, no one would have cared. Obviously, labelling someone of darker complexion 'ape' is very sensitive and is going to get you in trouble. Why? Because there was once a time we believed that all life including people were and are evolving, The Aboriginal 'races' were allegedly separated from the European for tens of thousands of years, and as such have developed quite independently from the European. One supposed that the rate of change and development could not allow everyone to be still equal after so long. By implication, certain 'races' were more evolved than others. So the Europeans who had figured this out presumed they must be the superiors. I agree with Tanveer that such ideology belongs in a different age. The problem is that this time is now. Much of this is still taught as fact in our schools. The young girl was berated for echoing the logical consequences of what she is hearing in her school classroom. Her parents have been copping the blame. But our current state education systems largely endorse evolution as fact, even to the point of not tolerating any dissenting questioning or discussion of the matter. Posted by Dan S de Merengue, Thursday, 10 April 2014 9:23:52 AM
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Why does the author talk of harm done by racial abuse and then mentions racial discrimination as if they were one and the same thing? Adam Goodes was not a victim of discrimination – he was a victim of verbal abuse. Many other players on the field that day would have been victims of verbal abuse as well.
It is very manipulative to mix these two terms. We have adequate laws to deal with discrimination and so we should. Discrimination is when you deny someone their rights based on nothing other than their race. We do not need laws to protect anyone from verbal abuse since verbal abuse does not cause anyone harm. I would seriously question the credentials of a psychiatrist who claims that verbal abuse can cause measureable harm to anyone. Where is the proven cause and effect between what is said and what is felt? The current legislation suggests that a reasonable person could determine that cause and effect are present. I would suggest that no reasonable person would ever come to such a conclusion. Pain may well be experienced when certain words are said but exactly who is responsible for that pain? I have seen Aboriginal children racially abused by their own mothers. If you grow up having been told by your own mother – the person you trust more than any other- that you are a lesser human being because of the colour of your skin then you already have a mountain of pain that you carry around with you every day. You do your best to suppress that pain but when certain phrases are mentioned it comes to the surface all over again. You can hear those phrases on a bus, on TV, during a movie, reading a book or a thousand other situations. That pain already exists but it can be eradicated with appropriate help. Millions have achieved freedom from the pain caused by their upbringing. The choice to seek help in attaining that freedom is open to everyone Posted by phanto, Thursday, 10 April 2014 10:13:19 AM
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LEGO still does not get it. I'm not anti USA and neither is Major General Albert Stubblebine. We are against the corporate lies that are stealing our freedoms and health.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 12 April 2014 3:18:10 PM
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'Liberty is more valuable than comfort/safety.
But we are losing it inch by inch, as the state tries to "protect" us.' Well said Shockadelic Posted by Edward Carson, Sunday, 13 April 2014 5:18:03 PM
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And I can add, a very well constructed bill of irrevocable rights, might deal with some of the more knotty problems, that seem to be emerging around the idea of free speech.
Meaning, I ought to be able to say anything at all about you, however demeaning, always providing, I can prove both truth and accuracy, and never ever intentional harm.
True justice and the inherent truth, are color, gender and socially blind!
As somebody I both respect and admire once said, it is not the color of a man's skin that matters, but the content of his character. And went on to say his, I have a dream speech.
As for the young Lady who verbally abused Adam Goode?
Well everyone learns their prejudices at their parent's knees; and she may well have grown up in a household, where racial vilification was seen as normal; and practiced daily?
Clearly there is a place for educating those who both teach and practice it, with the shoe on the other foot so to speak, just enough to allow them to feel just how hurtful it can be?
Like, taking ordinary decent Germans into the camps, if only to make them face the very truth they had been denying, as if what was being done or said in their name, was literally impossible!
Bring on a bill of irrevocable rights!
And it ought to include a right by the majority, to not include kids in public education or in other public forums, whose ignorant parents have refused to vaccinate, on the grounds of something a proven fraudster may have fallaciously claimed, along with her bogus accreditation?
Along with rights, there also exists, responsibilities!
Rhrosty.