Max Atkinson,

one other thing to help clear an important issue up for you -

You say "some philosophers distinguish as ethics and morality" as though you are saying that we have a moral ground which we assume to be universal somehow and then we have our everyday practical ethics (which the ancient Roman moralists wrote of in detail).

Then you ask "How does this debate and the ordinary, everyday values it draws on relate to arguments which appeal to religious authority?"

Yes I know this has historically been an impossible question, yet I implore you all to not believe that somehow western laws and moral values are based in our Judeo-Christian heritage. It is NOT at all.

Regardless of how there are some values seemingly taught by Jesus etc. which are identical with Liberal notions of "equality", "freedom", "justice", non-violence" [although the latter is ignored], I refer all to a brilliant comment by the genius 18th century philosopher Immannual Kant . . .

. . . who described this dilemma in the following way -

"I do not follow the morals of Christ because the bible says it, rather I read and follow the bible and Christ because their is a moral imperative within me to do so". And he explained in his 3 Critiques that this "moral ground" is of an "existential universal" order.

I really cannot come,to terms with the stuipidy of people who believe in any so called religion the more I see of all of these people running around in dresses, expensive at that, waving some sort of smoke coming out of a pot I completely turn off, Pell defending the doings of his flock and then gets posted to a cushy job in Rome to get out of problems here, truly how can so called people believe in the rubbish being pedalled by religion, The rest of the religious brigade are no better, Muslim, Scientology, Jehova's Witness, the list goes on and on of people being sucked into some sort of a belief system , when there is no truth that it exists, only in what's between your ears.
When their is,proof I will don my expensive dress with gold braiding and start preaching to the flock, or more to the teaching of the so called Holy Book don my clothes of the poor.

Dear Ojnab,

<<I really cannot come,to terms with the stuipidy of people who believe in any so called religion the more I see of all of these people running around in dresses, expensive at that, waving some sort of smoke coming out of a pot I completely turn off>>

You hit the nail on its head: too often a "so called religion" is not a religion at all.

<<or more to the teaching of the so called Holy Book don my clothes of the poor.>>

Indeed, there is no logical link between religion and expensive clothing - http://www.lightstalkers.org/images/show/175879

<<people being sucked into some sort of a belief system , when there is no truth that it exists, only in what's between your ears.>>

Religion is NOT a belief system. Although SOME religions exercise a belief system as one of their techniques, they should only do so because it's practical, because it works, because it forwards religion's goal of coming closer to God, not because it is supposed to be true in any existential sense.

Then wear what suits you and do what works for you!

Yuyutsu,but these people do not have to look at me every day, while I have to look at them, you obviously condone the Catholic misdeamers of male sexual abuse, I do not, is that part of the religion that I have to put up with.

Dear Banjo,

Actually, it is worth than that. I get 1 = 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1, if I follow your reasoning, since according to my dictionary, both Australia and Victoria, Queensland etc are states (and so are de facto ACT and NT). So we have eight states making together a single state (monostate) :-))

Dear Ojnab,

You should know very well that sexual abuse is not part of any religion. In fact it's quite the opposite and it takes people away from God.