George,
I also do not believe that chimps or cockroaches are among our ancestors.

Pericles,
I find investigation into the earth's history or life's origins intriguing. Yet of the recent discussion between Bill Nye and Ken Ham, you said. "I sincerely doubt that any minds, at all, were changed." What did you mean by that?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7713309/
Getting back..to the typical charts..used to sell
Man's descent..from early apes..(hominids),
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fp3LJAJyhvE/UOM3MubIYwI/AAAAAAAAEc8/9GaJq_jmihQ/s1600/DNA-chart1.png

We must now note..the glaring problem..in interpreting..the percentages..shoved in our face.

If Man shares 25%-50% of his DNA with fruitflies and yeast,
then..about that amount..must be ignored..when discussing the question
of Man's relation to early Apes.

98%..now becomes..something more along the lines..of 35-48%
of DNA code/.which might be claimed..as significant to the question of Common Descent..from early Apes.

This 35-48%..must be further trimmed.by another 10% for generalized
mammalian code..and perhaps another 20%.for regulatory coding that
will be common..to..*all species of animal and even plant.

We are looking.at a residual 10-15%.of DNA codingthat might be
useable..as some kind of evidence/of common descent.

As the latest investigations conclude,...even this much genetic overlap..may be of little significance at all,.because the bulk of physical features..that define speciation are not controlled by normal..Genes, but rather..by the 'regulatory-DNA' which has been unappreciated hitherto:

Quote:

'Junk DNA'..Defines Differences..Between Humans and Chimps

...
"The research team lead by Georgia Tech Professor of Biology
John McDonald..has verified that..while the DNA sequence of genes
between humans..and chimpanzees is nearly identical,
..there are large genomic "gaps"..in areas..*adjacent to genes
that can affect/the..*extent to which..genes are "turned on" and "turned off."

The research shows..that these genomic/"gaps" between the two species
are predominantly..due to the insertion...or deletion (INDEL) of viral-like..sequences called retrotransposons that are known to comprise about..half of the genomes.[of both species. The findings are reported in..the most recent issue of the online,..open-access journal Mobile DNA.'

"These genetic gaps have..primarily been caused by the activity of
retroviral-like transposable element..sequences," said McDonald.
"Transposable elements..were once considered..'junk DNA'
with little or no function...*Now it appears that they may be
one of the major reasons..why we are so different from chimpanzees."

That is,.genetic biologists..have discovered that speciation is
primarily/caused by the areas..of DNA..*previously ignored.

The actual differences between Man PIgs..mand Chimps in respect of
gross,.raw or bulk DNA is of little significance..to speciation,
and therefore.of little significance for Common Descent.

And furthermore, Pericles, I didn't really appreciate your sarcastic tone at the beginning of your last post after I answered your question. To say that Neanderthals were people is not an entirely obvious answer. 

There some who don't count Neanderthals as people. There were some in the 19th Century (soon after the release of Darwin's 'Origins') who shot Aborigines as specimens for British museums. There were some about 100 years ago who put an African pigmy on display in a New York zoo. There was a professional football match in Melbourne last year, which was held up for a time when a teenage spectator yelled the word 'ape' in the direction of Adam Goodes. 

In this day and age, such questions are not always obvious.

I'm sorry if you felt offended, Dan S de Merengue, but you misheard me...

>>And furthermore, Pericles, I didn't really appreciate your sarcastic tone at the beginning of your last post<<

That wasn't sarcasm, that was an indication that I was leaning back, stroking my chin in contemplation of your response. Here it is again...

>>Well, ye-e-e-e-e-s, Dan S de Merengue.<<

See it now? Good. The slight air of bemusement that went along with it was continued in the next sentence:

>>I was actually asking you, as a young-earth creationist, where you see the Neanderthals fitting into your worldview. As in, how long ago did they live, where did they live etc. etc.<<

And I am still very interested in your response.

As for this:

>>Yet of the recent discussion between Bill Nye and Ken Ham, you said. "I sincerely doubt that any minds, at all, were changed." What did you mean by that?<<

I'm not entirely sure which conversation you refer to here, perhaps you could point it out more directly? But if I were to guess what I had in mind at the time, it was most likely along the lines that folks who believe in a supreme being think differently from those who don't. Therefore there will be no single argument, or even dialogue, that will clinch the deal one way or the other, for either party.

There is not even common ground on what can be construed as evidence, when you think about it. I am convinced, for example, that the lack of any evidence of Jesus' miracles outside the collected works that are now called the "Bible", is a significant impediment to believing in them. No such limitation is accepted by your average Christian, who actually will cite the Bible as evidence in itself - which, to me, makes the entire rationale circular instead of linear.

I'd still be interested in how you fit the concept of Neanderthal man into your young-earth creation story. Any thoughts?

pericules/quote..<<>...There is not even common ground on what can be construed as evidence, when you think about it...>>

that seems rather loose..evidence ..is things like personal witness accounts[gospil/means witness]..there is written witness and verbal witness[as well as honouring with the lips alone.

in short wHAT IS PROOF IS CLEAR
but because of freewill ..we can decide what the proof reveals

<<..I am convinced, for example, that the lack of any evidence of Jesus' miracles outside the collected works that are now called the "Bible", is a significant impediment to believing in them.>>

its funny..EACH PERSONAL WITNESS EXPECTED TO SEE WHAT THEY SAW
IE PAUL FROM HIS HEARING OF RUMOR TO BRING HIM DOWN/MARC THINKING HE WAS THE PROMISED MESSIAH LUKE FROM HS VIEUW

i will try to Explain..[booze is EVIL RIGHT?
DRUNKS DRINKING TOO MUCH..IS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER
THUS THE WITNESS THAT IS ATTESTED TO IS ERANT..ie JESUS SAID BEFORE THE WHINE INTO WATER THINg..its not yet my time/i hear mu mind expand on that..with..in fact anything that happens now is nought to do with me..in fact i couldnt care less if yOU FED THEM THAT DIRTY WATER FROM THE HAND WASH JAR

so servants not willing to loose face..go to the masters private stash..and serve that..so as to not loose face/as the servants of a master with lost face is lowest of all

think of it like human nature..EVEN IF CHRIST HIMSELF SAID SERVE THE BEST WINE FROM A TOILET/WGho would dare/ditto the teaching of the eatring without the handwash ritual..means yes you can 'feed 4000.all they want..if you sit them opposite each other..with unclean hands[recall the shew bread/incident..the deciples didnt know the concept..of ritual cleanliness TO EAT

Go wash your hands jeffry*..[GET IT]..DIRTY HANDS DIDNT EAT/
thats..unclean

to be ctd

BACK THEN..to be unclean..meant exclusion fROM RITUAL
AND YOU CANT PUT THE BEST WINE into any dunny..let alone get a servant..to draw it off..to drink FROM what is literaly

TOILET WATER..HERE THEY SAW WHAT THEY EXPECTED TO SEE
even on hearING THE WORDS YEARNED FOR A PROOFF..[YET DIDNT GET THE TRUE TEACHING..thats how i know the stories are true..the little things they told without telling

jesus himself said they expect miracles..HE TOLD US WE EACH ARE THE MIRACLE..to see me is to see our father..men miss the real mAJIC..IS LIFE MIRACLE..hence the koran teaches /says''FIRST MAKE JUST ONE LIKE AS IT[ie a living thing]..before you tell me god didnt do IT/PROVE YOU CAN DO IT.

OTHER MIRACLES..LIKE RAISING THE DEA..HAVE TO DO WITH THOSE EXPUNGED FROM THE COMMUNITY [OUTCAST-DEAD]..AND HEALING OF A SKIN BLEMISH THE PRIESTS HAD DEEMED TO BE 'other'..same samE..GO TELL YA CHURCH MAN ITS NOT LEPROSY..SEE..[the hemp healing oil is also missed..but such are the teachings of the tree of knowing good from not good

all good is of god
GODS SURE SIGNS ARE LIFE[where life is there is god]
the life sustained by the light..that life learn love grace mercy and know all good is of god..CALL YE NONE GOOD BUT ONE..

[SUN[of the SON]