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The Forum > Article Comments > Responsibility and alcohol related violence > Comments

Responsibility and alcohol related violence : Comments

By Tim Pascoe, published 14/1/2014

These teenagers were not killed by Smirnoff or Johnny Walker, they were killed by Kieran Loveridge and Shaun McNeil; individuals prone to violence regardless of whether they were intoxicated or not.

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Good article; personal responsibility is a concept which has been submerged under decades of progressive hand-wringing. In a democracy like ours personal rights and responsibilities are fundamental to its success.

On the issue of being drunk or affected by drugs mitigating responsibility, that notion was determined a long time ago by the McNoughton case but there are limited exceptions involving alcohol and drugs where otherwise the simple fact of being drunk or drug affected is not sufficient to plead as a defence:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XI-3YoVqTyIC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=McNaughton+defence&source=bl&ots=Aj8LQxSoOz&sig=TAOC7ruEWgw1WTd72zpwI4hpBtI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1F7UUqLdFYvHkAWNm4Fo&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=McNaughton%20defence&f=false
Posted by cohenite, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 7:51:17 AM
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No one is suggesting "Banning alcohol" but reducing hours alcohol is served.
I think hours should be reduced as well as formally disallowing any defense of the drink made me do it.
Further to this start mandating legal aid defense costs so that trials do not take years to come to court and then weeks to decide. If the sleazy lawyers want to make a point let them pay for it.
It takes four times longer than fifty years ago for justice to be done at a commensurate cost to us and that is a disgrace.
Posted by JBowyer, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 7:54:20 AM
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As well as limiting the availability of alcohol, another thing to do would be to ban the flood of bloody conflicts from America 'Inside The Octagon' shown on our television sets!

America's history shows a penchant for violence but why for God's Sake are we allowing these obscene, brutal gladiatorial conflicts so enjoyed by Americans to be shown to our children?

The idea behind the bouts is that someone should be smashed into unconsciousness or have a hold applied that requires submission otherwise a broken limb occurs.

We might as well bring back the gladiatorial contests in Ancient Rome where people were forced to fight to the death.

Perhaps that will be the next step?
Posted by David G, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 8:13:15 AM
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Grog increases propensity to violence - because many people drink to feel less inhibited about what they do.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 9:44:48 AM
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Alcohol is not the problem it's people there should be zero tolerance for violence.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 9:56:46 AM
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Yes, some people are violent in nature, or perhaps grew up with violence and figure it is a 'normal' part of life.

However, how many times do you hear people saying 'Oh he/she is never 'agro' unless they have a drink in them.'?
Even with domestic violence in the home, the perpetrator is very often reported to be affected by alcohol.

Alcohol may not actually cause the violence, but I would suggest a drunk person would go that one step further when bashing someone, causing severe damage or death, where they ordinarily may have stopped the bashing earlier.

Shut all the pubs and clubs at midnight, and enact stricter laws on establishments that continue serving obviously intoxicated people.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 10:10:40 AM
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I agree Suseonline.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 10:32:40 AM
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alcholol fuels violence just like porn fuels perversion and child abuse. The author is right in pointing out that the issues are already in the heart of man. Pouring petrol on a fire is not very smart.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 10:47:40 AM
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Don't the images of Shaun McNeil speak several thousand words ? He's obviously of the moron variety, sadly of the dangerous one.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 10:55:48 AM
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Come on Suse, don't be a piker. Shut them at 10, like in the old days.

When I was a boy the pubs shut at 6 o'clock. Some clown reckoned it would be more "civilized" if they shut at 10. To sell grog after 10 required a special licence. Even then we did not get crowds in the early mornings, with gangs of youth, roaming the city streets looking for trouble.

Perhaps fueled by the grog industry, closing times were made more "civilized" over time, until we got the present situation.

If this is civilized, I'm damned if I know what is uncivilized. Kids around here drink at home until 10 PM or so, as "it's cheaper to get pissed at home, & then go out" they tell us. Civilized? Yer right!

You are not going far enough Suse. 10 PM would be a suitable time to close, when the yobos can still get home by public transport, & clear the streets.

You can only blame the grog industry, producers & sellers, & our politicians. Without the late night closing, much of the problem just fades away.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 11:02:45 AM
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Two years of National Service would also keep a hell of a lot of them away from alcohol.
Plus they'd be in a better frame of mind already before they get drunk.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 11:10:52 AM
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I suspect a large number of those involved in this violence comes from fatherless or broken homes. I doubt whether any real research would be allowed on this likelyhood.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 11:11:47 AM
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The problem begins at school where kids are taught that authority is non-existent. Look what happened to this teacher who used reasonable force on a violent, abusive student:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/teacher-sacked-for-putting-a-student-in-a-head-lock-despite-being-punched-by-the-youth-says-staff-are-powerless/story-fni0cx12-1226799595110

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say the lessons students learn at school about the impotence of authority is a major cause of the unfettered violence now being expressed by young people in the streets.

After many years of left-wing, progressive policies any notion of personal responsibility is vitiated by victimhood and the contextual mitigation of guilt by people who do wrong.
Posted by cohenite, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 11:16:39 AM
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...To negate the abuse of alcohol as a leading cause of violent encounters, particularly among the youth, is both naïve and counter intuitive in solving the social catastrophe alcohol has been encouraged to produce.

...The World Health Organisation has drawn interesting conclusions presented in a “fact sheet” here:

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/world_report/factsheets/ft_youth.pdf
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 11:26:29 AM
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Very interesting WHO document, thanks for link Diver Dan.
Posted by Candide, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 12:27:53 PM
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cohenite,
your link above is nothing short of frightening at the stupidity of the system. The person who signed off on the teacher's fate should be hounded to no end.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 12:40:43 PM
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1.ban alcohol adds on television and dis allow sponsorship.slowly treat it like Tobacco

2. tax alcohol on % contents no matter what the beverages . wine ,beer, spirits

it is a not to be banned .just controlled to stop health and social problems

ben
Posted by ben gershon, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 1:02:15 PM
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...When adult consumption of alcohol in Australia is seen in context of global consumption comparisons, there are few countries with a higher consumption rate! (Just one step below the Russians; nothing to be proud of, and much to be concerned for)!

Link:

http://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/map-of-alocohol-consumption-around-the-world.jpg
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 3:29:53 PM
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Ben your ideas are sensible and in the public interest, so unlikely to by implemented by any of our governments. I think we need a public anti-ad campaign like Bugga Up, which did a sterling job of taking the mickey out of cigarette billboards all those years ago. Unit pricing of alcohol is long overdue. There is a floor price for cigarettes, there should also be one for a standard drink.

Too many public places are no longer safe for ordinary people to go and have fun
Posted by Candide, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 3:35:07 PM
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I'm very sorry INDIVIDUAL... I'm very much afraid the Army wouldn't want them, most are too far gone with their excessive drinking, topped with drugs and anything else that going around at the time ! Regrettably, the Army has enough problems with Budget cuts, out-dated hardware, and kit ! Without having to put up with some of these Boofheads ! My apologies though my friend, you could try the Air Force perhaps ?
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 4:08:29 PM
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Well Tim, while I agree that not all acts of violence are alcohol fueled, I would suggest most are. Either that, or they are drug fueled.

It is my view that nobody should have to put-up with either overly drunk, or drugged individuals while on a night out on the town, so itmis for this reason that i think police should have the power to perform random checks on people who they grudge as suspect.

Furthermore, I think we should have a legal limit of blood alcohol while in a public place, say .1 for example, which is twice the legal driving limit and zero tolerance for illicid drugs.

At the end of the day something must be done to protect the rights of law abiding citizens simply out for a good time, and lock outs are simply not the answer.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 4:36:21 PM
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As the last 3 killings on the street occurred in the early evening, the linking of this to extended trading hours is very weak, and is the topic of a separate discussion.

These assaults are the result of a small minority who delight in violence. the answer is making it clear that this violence will lead to jail time, even when there is no complaint.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 2:30:49 PM
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There is a third fuel to this violence of alcohol & drugs. This fuel is the fuel provided by the judiciary by way of gross injustice to victims & over-protection of the perpetrators.
It fuels the confidence of potential criminals who get almost daily encouragement by hearing of incompetent magistrates being super lenient to violent crimes. Those handing out pi$$ weak sentences are the real criminals because of deterring criminal minds they encourage them.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 9:44:46 PM
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