George,

That was an unfair smear.

<<...let me assure you that it is precisely because of tolerant atheists like you, that I - a Christian accused here of things like mental gymnastics by those who could not understand my position - occasionally follow or even take part in these discussions.>>

Could you show me where I have displayed any intolerance for those who hold a theistic belief, in light of the arguments I have presented?

<<Perhaps it is not by accident that in your earlier post you referred to Roger Penrose, another tolerant atheist from whom I learned a lot. The Penrose-Hameroff Orch-OR theory of consciousness that you mention is indeed relevant since it is exactly in the nature of consciousness (which we still cannot understand) that the question of the spiritual dimension of reality (actual or imagined) enters.>>

This is an appeal-to-ignorance fallacy, and a God-of-the-gaps argument. The lack of information in a given area does not lend credence to unsubstantiated claims and ignores a third possibility.

I might add, too, that you have never been able to demonstrate why your thought processes, on this topic, do not constituent "mental gymnastics". Therefore, this amounts to nothing more than the appeal-to-emotion fallacy.

Why is it that only grateful and Yuyutsu have had the courage to address me directly on this thread.

My respect to them...

AJ Philips,

>>That was an unfair smear<<

Plese note that the post was addressed to Danielle, not to you; you were not mentioned or meant in that post. It certainly was not meant to restart many of our arguments that always end with my assurance that I did not want to convert you.

Whether or not she sees the post as a smear is up to Dannielle.

George,

I agree with you about Penrose, an extraordinary mind.

My uncle, an astro-physicist and card-carrying atheist, stated that he saw the divine in the perfection and beauty of a physics equation. I assumed he identified physics as the prime mover. Some would say physics is (his) god.

Because of this influence I am very intrigued with Penrose's physics' based Quantum Consciousness. None doubts that Penrose is one of the foremost scientists of the century. He is also Distinguished Supporter of the British Humanist Association.

Penrose stated:

"I think I would say that the universe has a purpose, it's not somehow just there by chance ... some people, I think, take the view that the universe is just there and it runs along – it's a bit like it just sort of computes, and we happen somehow by accident to find ourselves in this thing. But I don't think that's a very fruitful or helpful way of looking at the universe, I think that there is something much deeper about it."

Penrose may not be positing an anthropomorphic god, but his theses must be of interest to any thoughtful person.

AJ..FURTHER DELUSION..<<Why is it that only grateful and Yuyutsu have had the courage to address me directly on this thread.>>

why do you fear to..talk with..me?
i..have replied you..many times..and somehow you say..you cant comprehend..well sunshine..that clear lie reveals your own..weakness
your a thug..a bully..yet got a great mind..but your afraid to take me on

its as pathetic as you are
your not only ignorant..your wrong
and ONLY.by reading my replies..and trying to..destroy..what i have said..will..i reply further..[all.i see in.the latest postings from you is..no refuting of fact..by hard-playing of the man..not your assumed questions

pssss weak

LIST OUR QUESTIONS..repeat your questions
just your questions..or your delusions..or play with,me

its just..pss weak..if you..get answer..you SAY..you cant comprehend

SO..ASK..THE FREAKING tHING AGAIN..and again..and again
let the readers see how ignorant you are..with your silence

ask..and you will be replied
dont ask..and be revealed as..a bully boy ignoramus
[if you havnt squanderd away your posts..i expecrt reply

you and me
bully boy
here anytime your ready..i will/be saving my posts..for today..just for you..today..is aj day..[please note..silence will reveal more than..any question..you could conceive][dont ask me to change your mind..and im not into converting exceta into pearl]

if you got guts or nutts talk.
dont waste time goading back..i wont reply your pathetic goad..JUST QUESTIONS..not inferences

CLEAR*QUESTIONS
clear proofs..

put up or think..about what..your really afraid of..
isnt your pathetic-ness..but your passable greatness..bah*

this is why..toilets have lids..

Danielle,

Thanks for the interesting Penrose quote that I did not know of. One cannot expect a mathematical physicist to arrive at an “anthropomorphic god” as being behind the purpose Penrose is talking about just out of his/her physics. Those mathematical physicists (and others) who see a personal (or anthropomorphic if you like) God in this role do so for reasons other than mathematics or physics.

It was Penrose’s three worlds (physical, mathematical, mental) that inspired e.g. my article www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14464. One might speculatively postulate a fourth (spiritual or divine) world. Sometimes it is better to speak about three (eventually four) DIMENSIONS of one Reality rather than different worlds.

By the way, I recently found this link (http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/What-Things-Really-Exist-Roger-Penrose-/432 ), that you might be interested in listening to.

'It was Penrose’s three worlds (physical, mathematical, mental) that inspired e.g. my article www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14464. One might speculatively postulate a fourth (spiritual or divine)', says George!

I tried to think of a situation that combined all four and the best I could come up was successfully voiding bodily wastes known as number two!

Am I on the right track? Should I do my PhD? Would it be God's will?