Finally I can write again, probably my last post till Sunday:

Dear Pericles,

"A. Hippies suggested something similar; B. Hippies are not serious people; therefore C. This cannot be serious", is logically flawed. I could counter it with: "This idea is supported by Milton Friedman, a prominent economist and a libertarian par-excellence who saved many countries from economic collapse; therefore this is good."

The fact is that today, not only do you pay bludgers, but you also train them to lie and cheat and you pay even more to their inquisitors: you are currently financing their cat-and-mouse game with your tax-money.

<<If you were to find yourself an unoccupied space>>

You know that there isn't any, at least not with reasonable natural resources. All reasonable places are taken by one monolithic culture at gun-point. The fact of investment is irrelevant: was I even consulted over that investment? Sure it's something you enjoy, but what's in there for me? likely even a negative outcome due to depletion of natural resources.

Dear Shockadelic,

No bureaucrats are needed, all it takes is visiting ATO's website and clicking on "I rather receive a weekly amount of XXX dollars to my bank account BSB/acct-number". If you requested too much because you also received other income, then at the end of the financial year the ATO's computer will ask you to refund the excess plus interest.

Dear Joe,

Nobody has grievances against you personally, but against the society you partake in. The fact that you work is irrelevant, only the fact that you receive money, which could also come from rent, share-trading, etc. If you don't like paying tax, then all you need is to reduce your income to the tax-threshold (or below), but if you want more money (as most people do), then please understand that this money comes with strings attached because it is printed and backed by a society who owes certain compensation for prohibiting other modes of life. If you inherit someone, you must pay their debts first before pocketing the rest: this is similar.

Hi Yuyutsu,

i don't work for money, but doing just what I like doing, and what I think is worth doing. But I have no interest in getting paid for it.

Which is the reverse of what you are demanding :)

All humans deserve a minimum of respect, but that doesn't give them rent-seeking rights. Contribution and effort go a long way to increasing the extra respect that people deserve.

Joe
www.firstsources.info

Misrepresenting my position only shows up the poverty of your argument, Yuyutsu:

>>"A. Hippies suggested something similar; B. Hippies are not serious people; therefore C. This cannot be serious", is logically flawed.<<

You clearly weren't around in the sixties, so you won't understand the significance of the term "hippies", and what it stands for. They were extremely serious people, and shared your pseudo-spiritual views on the human condition. This led to the formation of communes, back-to-nature groupings of like-minded folk, whose ambition was to live in harmony with nature, as distinct from what they regarded as the perversions of civilization.

Sounding familiar?

>>The fact is that today, not only do you pay bludgers, but you also train them to lie and cheat and you pay even more to their inquisitors: you are currently financing their cat-and-mouse game with your tax-money.<<

This sounds a tad pejorative. Yet you still advocate the extension of these liberties to an even wider group of people. How logical is that?

Seriously, I can't take you seriously.

>>You know that there isn't any [unoccupied space], at least not with reasonable natural resources.<<

You're kidding.

Perhaps not in Pymble or Toorak, but there's massive stretches of it, all over Africa.

I'm beginning to suspect you are just an armchair hippie, expecting the world to provide the resources to support your indolent spiritual lifestyle,but unwilling to get up and make an effort to find them for yourself.

this is the problem

Darryl Robert Schoon explains the world’s most successful card trick. By printing coupons and loaning them as money, banks have indebted the world beyond its ability to repay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=a86DfIfNSd8

Read more at http://investmentwatchblog.com/darryl-robert-schoon-by-printing-coupons-loaning-them-as-money-banks-have-indebted-the-world-beyond-its-ability-to-repay/#cFVwPslHl8rF4kp0.99

how/they THINK...to/fix it is/by hyper inflation
for that they need to blame it upon/the greedy workers

one cent[buying value]..in1930-two dollar cost today
in other words..the bankers..stole..the value/by hyperinflation

wwe can take it back..by revaluing..the face values..of the coin
[bailing out those poor people using the ONLY..LAWFUL-tender..paper money..isnt..lawful tender..ONLY COIN IS*

but hrh..face on/the debased coin..is treason
anyhow blame the workers..[inflation..only..hurts them]

Pericles "a division of society between those who work, and those who bludge"

There is no division.
Everyone gets the payment.

"the contribution the bludger intends to make to keep the world turning."

The money paid doesn't just vanish into the ether.
It is *spent* on goods and services, which pays your blessed workers' salaries.

"there's massive stretches of [unoccupied space], all over Africa."

Where? In desert or tropical jungle?
I wonder why nobody lives there?

Every inch of Africa is ruled by one government or another.
There's just going to let us move in, eh?

Cloud Cuckoo-land people !

Shockaholic,

FROM WHERE ?! Where does this bucket of money come from, if not from workers somewhere ?! It has to be generated somewhere, not just spent and circulated.

This is the philosophy of people who are oblivious to where it all comes from, probably public servants and their lifelong clients.

Here we are, mourning the passing of a great man, who spent 27 years in jail, breaking rocks, and didn't retire from active working life until he was past eighty, and we are supposed to worry about some bludgers who never intend to work a day in their lives ?!

Despicable.

Let's honor Mr Mandela the best sway we can by finding ways to contribute to our societies, by working and paying our way if we are able-bodied, by making a difference, and by leaving the world a little bit richer and happier.

Let's try to find ways to 'encourage' the loafers in our midst to study, train, and otherwise find ways to work and make their proper contribution.

Joe