This is one of Sells better essays, but then he spoils it by referring to the bogus "unique gift of Israel" and its understanding of history.

Meanwhile of course everything that Sells has ever written on this forum fits entirely within the mortal-meat-body paradigm of naturalism, as does all exoteric religion which by its very nature reduces everyone and everything to the mortal-meat-body scale ONLY.

Put in another way - There are more things in heaven and earth Sells, than are dreamt of in your naive reductionist exoteric philosophy/"theology".
This reference provides a critique of the naive (materialist) realism that mis-informs Sells Spiritually impoverished religiosity:
http://www.aboutadidam.org/lesser_alternatives/scientific_materialism/index.html

One of the original absurdities to which the "occidental" structure of mind, and of Western Man, was predisposed was the invention of a "God" who is an explanation for the existence of the world and whose existence needs to be proven.
The "occidental" mind sees the natural world first and then calculates the existence of "God". Therefore, to the Western or "occidental" mind, God or the Radiant Transcendental Being is not obvious. God must be thought about and invented or caculated into existence.
Since the Radiant Transcendental Being is inherently in doubt from such a diminished point of view, God can only be tentatively believed or eternally sought, but never ever Realized.
http://global.adidam.org/books/eleutherios
Accordingly the natural presumably given (always out "there") world and the body-mind of the human individual (both always arise simultaneously) is accredited with an overwhelming realness, such that it tends to be felt to exist in, of, as, and for itself. Thus leading to the obviously absurd proposition that the mortal-meat-body which one calls me in this life-time will be "resurrected" when Jesus comes again, or on "judgement day".

The Indivisible Unity

The self-consciousness of individual beings inheres in the Transcendental Consciousness, or Transcendental Divine Being Itself.
The body-mind of every individual being inheres in the Self-Radiant Love-Bliss of Transcendental Divine Being Itself.
Nature, or the worlds of the relations of self-conscious psycho-physical beings, inheres in a Matrix of Radiant Light or Energy that also inheres in the Self-Radiant Love-Bliss of Transcendental Divine Being Itself.
That in Which or in Whom self-consciousness, the psycho-physical body-mind, and all possible worlds of experience and knowledge inhere is Self-Radiant, Eternal, Indestructible, Perfect, and Absolute Happiness.
We are, in essence or in Truth & Reality, That One.
We are not destructible, even by death.

History is the dream/nightmare of left-brained reason.
As long as man believes in this dream/nightmare and seeks to acquire an historical identity either individually and especially collectively, he remains unconscious of the fact that he is a bridge between the cosmic realms of "heaven" and earth. Within the nightmare man's hopes will always focus on a future utopia that in fact is progressively realized or manifested as a kakatopia, a psychotechnological intensification of hell on earth.
His only "escape" from this ever darkening fatal circle is to wake up from the dream and Realize a cosmic, mythic, and fundamentally timeless identity.

In the case of Israel the future utopia is of course the re-establishment of the historic lands "promised" to the "chosen people" by their tribalistic cultic "God". The establishment of this utopia necessarily means "cleansing" the "promised" lands of "gentiles" or anyone who is not a Jew.
In the case of Christians it is when "Jesus" comes again to "re-establish" his "righteous rule", having first gotten rid of all the heathens.

As James Joyce prophetically declared in Finnegan's Wake which was published in that fateful year of 1939: his-story is a nighmnare from which I am trying to awaken. Finnegan's Wake was a literary attempt so to do. At another level it signified that European civilization had finally come to its inevitable dead-end. Which it did via both world wars. WWII finished off the destruction began with WWI.

Food for thought, Mr Sellick. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with some of your conclusions, though.

For example, where you said:

"Even if a physical cause of gravity needed to await Einstein, it was felt that it was only a matter of time before all causality could be described and God would finally be expelled from the universe."

I am certain that even when the entire causality of gravity is determined, religious folk will still ascribe its workings to the existence of their deity. Let's face it, once you have decided to believe that the universe was brought into being by a divine presence, everything within it must by definition have the same source. Gravity can therefore never be "explained away", its newly-discovered parameters simply included in the list of wonders-wot-he-wrought instead.

This has little to do with a need for proof, or even evidence. As we move further away from our primitive instincts, and learn to trust our intellects, the idea that there is somehow a "God" whom we need to acknowledge in order to make sense of our existence, rapidly evaporates.

In this context, man's journey through "natural theology" can be seen as simply a way-station on the road to that trust in ourselves. Rather than abandon in an instant the biblical stories on which we were brought up, the God of those stories was interwoven with our increasing awareness of our surroundings.

It is a generational thing. There will inevitably always be people who need to believe in a divine presence, simply through a basic human need for "answers", coupled with an emotional inability to accept that we are on our own. But it is likely that the number of these will gradually reduce, without the need for any further explanation of things we currently don't fully understand.

Peter,
You are spot on with the Israel bit. These people can certainly keep their traditions. Not much different with venturing forth into the desert and coming back with a plastic bag full of Philistine foreskins to lobbing a few artillery shells into a school playground in Gaza?
You use the Big Bang theory as an example of cold, sterile natural history. Many would argue that the BB theory fits more into the Old Testament than natural science. Funding for research is controlled by the religious right, you cannot research any alternative theory if you want to be paid for it. God created the world and all the sinners will die in a red-shifted heat death.
I think what you are trying to say was better described by Oswald Spengler in his stages of birth, growth and decline of civilisations. Newton et al at the beginning embrace the concept of God, this belief declines, becomes “God of the Gaps”, morphs into the atheism and Zen-like cults we observe now.

Little Johny was a bit forgetful, so he was advised to note down at bed-time where everything is so he could find it in the morning. So he wrote:

My trousers and shirt are on the chair.
The chair is on the floor.
My socks are in the bottom drawer.
My shoes are on the doormat.
My toothbrush is in the bathroom.
There is toothpaste on the bathroom's shelf.
My school bag is on the second shelf near my bed.
My school-books are on the third shelf near my bed.
My pens, eraser and ruler are in the top-left drawer.
My notebooks are in the top-right drawer.
Sandwiches for lunch are on the kitchen table.
And I am in bed.

Next morning he found his trousers and shirt, socks and shoes, his toothbrush and toothpaste, his bag and books, pens, eraser, ruler and notebooks as well as the sandwiches for lunch... but then he looked in his bed and hard as he tried he couldn't find himself there!

Now this would usually be considered a joke - except when it is the reality: What for heaven's sake, is God doing looking for Himself in the material world, then becoming frustrated that He cannot find what He is looking for?

"Natural theology has been described in its time as the sick man of Europe."

By Ninian Smart in 1961, but not by anyone else I could identify. Why not attribute your quotes, Peter?

But it's good to see you on side against the fundamentalists of the Green religion. They currently have a great deal more power in the West than the followers of your fairy tales, and as such are capable of inflicting a lot more damage.

i/wish..we could comprehend..each other better
but..the reason..we chose one word..or the other..is what confounds

see..we think..to know each/other
and..im..not seeing..a lot of peter..in..these words

anyhow..<<..Natural/theology,../edited/..the attempt>>

by..atheists?
by..theists?

<<..to derive..the existence..and actsof God..from n..ature.>>

now..im not sure..you have biased..
what..you/wrote..that they think..BUT*
but..its/not..even..logical..

DERIVE*=originate..and
existence=[the state..or..the way]..of existing

exist=having..objective-reality..[or being]

then..tack/on..
<<acts..of god>>..=
[which..includes..being/cause..of all-existence]

<<from/nature?>>
[the fruits of..all gods causation..creations..of being]

no..sorry..it doth not/compute
whats the question?

<<Natural-theology,..as the name implies,..is the attempt
to..derive..the existence...and acts of God..from nature.>>

god..*as supreme/cause
must*..have..had some hand..in it..
even/if he only created..perfect/eternal/heaven

and we..by the fall..created..this earthy/realm..
[we ARE..[E]-*CO_CREATORS]

[as im..trying to..sort out/here..by myself.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#17685

jesus SAID..this is satans realm
thus this realm..was FORMED..by satan/thus*
he has rights..of creator..[like we all do*][over our*own/creation]

god didnt..create/hell..nor earth
hell is when men..seek a plaCE AWAY/FROM..the light..[heaven]
and earth..is the sorting/place..here we sort the purists[heaven]..from the lovers of sin..[hell]

for..now we are sorting/out..ourselves
in time..we all draw/back,,into heaven
[then yet again..the fall..and with a big bang..it all begins again]

the expansion..of the universe..is symptomatic..of us..rejecting others..in time..we draw together..and the uni*verse..begins to shrink

till yet again..we attain..the atonement[at-one-meant]

<<The logic is simple...If God was the creator>>

well..he..isnt..[not directly..but its his projection..of the fallen..that saw this ,material projection..in-formed..intobbeing

so..it may have been his saying of be..and it was
but more likely..the fallen aNGEL-SAYING IF.IM NOT IN PRISON.[here..IN HEAVEN]..PROVE IT..ALLOW ME..TO MAKE MINE OWN..earthy/haven]

in..and of the light/looping..into strings
<<of the world>>..frozen energy..[e]=has mass..it you have less mass..you stand..upon the heavier mass[enough mass creates a black/hole]..regardless

<<then when we look at the world
we see the works of his fingers>>

yes..our bodies..are much..like his fingers/hairs..etc[see swedenberg/grand-man]

<<i.e...the order.;.that we see..in the world
is an order..imposed by God.>>

and the disorder..by the extended fingers [creations[..of man[co0creators]

<<Or as William Paley..in 1802 surmised,>>

not..summation..is a god[good]..quality

<<if you found..a watch in the field
one would ask..about the watchmaker...>>

not really..first i would see in..gods cloud/mind..all watches
then ask..is this a watch..then..god would ask..does it work
only.if its broken..need i call for its creator..to fix it

The logic is simple.BUT*.

The above is natural theology from metaphysically obtuse deliverances of C17th new physics. E.A Burtt gives the definitive account in ‘The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Natural Science’(internet archive)

"No one in the learned world could be found
to save the brilliant mathematical victories over the
realm of physical motion, and at the same time lay
bare the big problems involved in the new doctrine
of causality, and the inherent ambiguities in the tentative,
compromising, and rationally inconstruable form
of the Cartesian dualism that had been dragged along
like a tribal deity in the course of the campaign."

Any search of Edward Feser's blog for 'Paley' 'mechanical philosophy' etc will help too. E.g http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/materialist-shell-game.html (Remember: natural philosophy/science begins and ends in the senses, there will be a problem with your philosophy of nature if it denies the reality of the deliverances of the senses! as reductive mathematical physics as the entirety of natural philosophy does)

For historical colour: Newton knew what he was doing, as a natural philosopher but his disciples and for political reasons, we centuries later find, there are none now who remember it

“Those violate the accuracy of language
which ought to be kept precise, who interpret
these words [space, place and motion] for the
measured quantities. Nor do those less defile
the purity of mathematical and philosophical
truths, who confound real quantities with their
relations and sensible measures.

Moreover since body is here proposed for
investigation not insofar as it is a physical
*substance endowed with sensible qualities* but
only insofar as it is extended mobile and
impenetrable I have not defined it in a
*philosophical manner* but abstracting from
sensible qualities I have postulated only the
properties needed for local motion so that
instead of physical bodies you may understand
abstract figures in the same way they are
considered by geometers when they assign motion
to them."


Some links
http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/FR93202.HTM
http://thomism.wordpress.com/ (BERQUIST links sidebar)

Happy to learn author makes pivotal error, not intellectually dishonest. Less said about obscenity of Christian atheism the better.

I must be living in a different world to that of JonJ when he claims that the greens have enormous power and the naturalistic religious fundamentals do not.
How many powerful think-tanks do the greens operate either in Australia or world-wide?
Do the greens have anything like ALEC http://www.alecexposed.org

The IPA is the source of the market-rules-fundamentalist ideology that drives the various agendas of the new government, many/most of which are agin anything with a green tinge.
Many of the IPA propaganda hacks subscribe to and promote the reductionist one dimensional anti-Spiritual naturalist religiosity that Peter described in his essay. And the triumph of the West (and Christianity too) hubristic historicism too.
Many of the members of the new government, including some cabinet ministers are conservative or right-wing Christians, including "catholic".
George Pell, who is Tony Abbott's "spiritual" mentor is well known for being agin the "pagan green religion". George is of course closely associated with both the IPA and the CIS. He attends their various gab-fests.
Most of the powerful right-wing USA think tanks are strongly influenced by the same kind of reductionist anti-Spiritual religiosity.
All of which to say that the fundamentalist religion that Peter wrote about is well and truly alive both here in Australia, and world-wide too.
The truth about the monstrous Edward Feser who some people pretend is a source of wisdom.
http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/1285-edward-feser.html

Thomistic metaphysics is a load of pretentious, entirely speculative and pernicious horse-manure, the purpose of which is power-and-control, not Love. Indeed it has nothing whatsoever to do with Love.

Speaking of so called metaphysics and the nature of Reality the author of the references below on the nature of Reality seldom if ever uses the word metaphysics. References which are profoundly critical of the conceits/delusions of the conventional Spirit and life killing left-brained mind in both its secular and so called "religious" forms.
In His 2,000 page Magnum Opus The Aletheon (The Truth Book) the word metaphysics only appears once in the extensive index, referring to these lines:
"There IS NO separate self - and, therefore, "IT" as such is not reducible to what is physical and NOT enlargable to what is metaphysical.
The metaphysical presumptions of "religion", and otherwise metaphysical "philosophy", are, relative to the mind created sense of separate "self", inherently and self-evidently false."

http://www.dabase.org/Reality_Itself_Is_Not_In_The_Middle.htm
http://www.dabase.org/up-1-7.htm
http://www.consciousnessitself.org
http://spiralledlight.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/4068
http://www.aboutadidam.org/newsletters/toc-february2004.html

The last reference is very much about the origins of the Spirit-killing naturalistic world-view, and the "culture" of death which it has created in its image.
It also points out that conventional religion is incapable of producing an effective counter to this situation because it shares the same reductionist presumptions about what we are as human beings. And more importantly the MERE ideas proposed by such conventional religiosity are unacceptable or incapable of being accepted by the feeling-heart or the feeling psychic core of our existence-being.

I have no time for the blend of neo-pagan Gaia worship and Green ideology taught as “eco-spirituality” in some theology faculties, but I think Peter goes too far in his dismissal of “natural theology”. His insistence that nothing in human reason or experience can point us to the existence of God flies in the face of biblical witness.

Romans 1 warns against worshipping the creation not the creator, but also says God’s is “understood and seen through the things he has made.” The psalms, the prophets, Job and of course Genesis all have God’s role as creator as central. This language is poetic and allusive. I am not arguing for biblical literalism, a seven-day creation or the pseudo-science of much of the “intelligent design” movement. But between the extremes of Deism and “eco-spirituality” there are intelligent and worthwhile theologies exploring what a creator God might mean for modern, scientifically literate Christians – process theology and panentheism to name a couple.

The very emphasis on history in Jewish tradition, which Peter so admires, points to a belief that God is active in the world of human affairs.

Good point Rhian. However, how does God act I the world? Is it not by his two hands, the Son and the Spirit? We tend to forget the trinitarian nature of God when we talk of how He acts in the world and revert to an undiffertiated monotheism.

There really was no such thing as "Biblical witness", and Saint Jesus of Galilee was never ever in any sense a Christian - as this essay on the fabricated origins and institutional political purposes of the "New" Testament points out:
http://www.dabase.org/up-5-1.htm
This too:
http://www.aboutadidam.org/articles/secret_identity
Then of course there is this site which introduces a profound form of the necessary eco sensitive spirituality if Earthkind is going to survive: http://sacredcamelgardens.com/trees/main.php

Plus this sobering description of what Western "culture" in both its secular and so called religious forms is really all about:
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/Aletheon/ontranscendingtheinsubordinatemind.html

Plus this essay on the authors exquisite sensitivity to everything that arises within his field of vision, and of everything altogether
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/touch.htm

Sells

Good point. Yes, God acts as son and spirit. The question is whether and how that action is made evident. The liberation theologians argue that Jesus IS realised eschatology – God’s kingdom becoming manifest in this life. Boff says eschatology is a process that begins in time and ends in eternity.

I know you place great store in Barth’s work, and he is undoubtedly a giant of 20th century theology, but his insistence that knowledge of God is impossible without divine self-revelation seems to me to lead necessarily to the position that there can be no clear connection between the human condition and the divine; or at least, one that can only be discerned through occult knowledge. Hence Barth is forced to reject or at least qualify large chunks of mainstream church thinking about creation.

Daffy

Even if your theories of the origins of the bible are correct, and I do not accept they are, one could still speak of “biblical witness”. The origins and intents of its authors are known to be diverse, but the book(s) we have today communicates certain things about the nature of God. In my view, one of those things is that the existence of people and the world are in some way bound up with God’s activity. You are free to reject my interpretation, or the authority or coherence of the bible, but even atheists cheerfully engage in discussions about what the bible says and what it means.

Dear Rhian,

<<In my view, one of those things is that the existence of people and the world are in some way bound up with God’s activity.>>

How else? Nothing is conceivable without God.

<<but the book(s) we have today communicates certain things about the nature of God.>>

The books we have do communicate people's experiences of God, which is especially valuable to others with similar experiences. It is however meaningless to speak of the "nature of God", because God is not subject to nature (which I think all of us here would agree).

<<You are free to reject my interpretation, or the authority or coherence of the bible, but even atheists cheerfully engage in discussions about what the bible says and what it means.>>

Trying to understand what the bible means is but mental gymnastics, which no wonder even atheists enjoy. What matters at the end of the day is whether and how the bible transforms the lives of people to bring them closer to God.

As per your discussion with Peter, I feel excluded as I feel most of us here are. You two seem to be speaking in some secret code which only Christian Theologians can understand. Sadly Peter will only respond to those who speak his language.

Dear Yuyutsu

Thank you for your comments– yes, “nature of God” was clumsy language, you make a good point.

I hope you don’t feel excluded by my language, as I enjoy your contributions to these forums. Theology like many disciplines has its own terms which often sound daunting but are often just shorthand for ideas which most people could grasp; and I admit my own grasp of it is pretty partial and rudimentary (still studying!).

I usually have an intense dislike of jargon and am embarrassed to be caught out. I’ll try to write better in future!

Yuyutsu/quote..<<..You two seem..to/be speaking..in some/secret code which..only Christian-Theologians..can understand...Sadly Peter will only..respond/to..those who..speak his.language.>>

yu..its not so much..secret/code..as short/hand
short-cut/thinking.

i will/try to explain..as no-one else..seems to want to
although..without..your asking..them specifiably..im only guesing

rhian/quote..<<..Good point...>>

responding/to sells/point..<<..However,..how does God act..In the world?..Is it not by/his two hands,..the Son..and the Spirit?>>

the short-hand..means..the son=jesus
the wholy spirit=the mediator..between/god/men[ie jesus]

sells..<<..We tend to forget..the trinitarian nature of God>>
see the catholholic..assume..the three are all different aspects..of the same being[jesus]..god become flesh.

which leads to absurdities..such as mary/mother of god
when god ALWAYS WAS..god[E][energy..][energy CAnT BE CREATED..nor destroyed]

<<..when we talk of how..He[jesus/jesus/jesus]..acts
in the world..and revert to an undiffertiated monotheism.>>

i think thats how the duel-minded..make the 3 faces of jesus
back..into..being just the one god

im only guessing
but no..other christian..seems to want to try..better
[but jesus himself..says..he isnt..the wholy spirit.,.so one of them'..jesus'..must be the father/the other the sun..and as for mother/well lets just call..her god

[its well known..that the father..gives the mother
life..that the..mother maketh..into'..the son]

so god=mum
the wholly spirit=dad
and the sun..being half man../first born/son
assumes the..mediating role..between/flesh/spirit..of the holy spirit

thus when..rjian/says..<<.Yes,..God acts as son and spirit.>>

he means[in the trinity]..
[god]..the father..acts..as son..*and..inter mediating/spirit..[i think]

jesus..himself has been explaining..
the role..of the holy mediator..[but i..thought/he was it]..

it may be a third person/thing[ie god/christ/church]

see the..sells=see/church
see church=see jesus/
see jesus=see/god

in the past..the church..was..the way..to..KNOW/jesus
and jesus/works..was..the way/to the fat*her

so this leads us back/to rhian/words..[whom i love]

<<..The question is..whether and how..that action is made evident.>>

thats actually..two..but whether isnt disputed
thus the only real rhetorical..becomes..HOW..was..[that?]..action/made evident?

is revealed..in/expanding on..the short hand

god/made the world..[by works]
jesus..re-made the world..[into work]
the church..remade..the world..and preserved the word.

rhian..<<.The liberation theologians..argue that Jesus IS realised eschatology –....>>..MEANING..<<..God’s kingdom becoming manifest in this life.>>

escapology..meaning..that part..of christs/church
..living/theology..concerning/death/judgment..and destiny
[ie re-birth/grace/eternity]

<<Boff says eschatology..is a process
that begins in time and ends in eternity.>>

meaning..death..begins..in..time/space
we then pass into..the aether realms..and
eventually get reborn..[born again]..into eternal/heaven..

or..something/like that

but..the/church..has/become..too..EXCLUSIVE/neutral..
the pope..expands..the new vision..

IMPORTANT*new/just-in*
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/world/europe/in-major-document-pope-francis-present-his-vision.html

http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/26/21623507-pope-francis-attacks-tyranny-of-unfettered-capitalism-idolatry-of-money&

http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pope-attacks-tyranny-of-markets-urges-renewal-in-key-document/article15600441/

http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/11/26/pope-seeks-advice-papal-power-reforms&sa=U&

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=pope&prmd=ivnsuz&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&

extracted from

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040#177111

to..identify*..its position
by..HOW MUCH IT..IS NOT THERE.

Actually,..this does/not mean ANYTHING...It is like..negative-numbers..in that/the concept..can be/used theoretically,..but..it has NO application..practically.

example/It is true..that if you put three/apples..on the table..and then took them AWAY, .that..the three apples..are NOT THERE...

*But it/is NOT true..that the table..is now MINUS/three apples.

If there..is NOTHING..on the table,
it does..NOT matter/what WAS there..in terms of amount.

The..“nothing”..is/neither greater/nor
less..because of what..is ABSENT.

That is why..“all”..and..“nothing”..are dichotomous,
WITHOUT..a reference/point..merely..A Ranging..between/nothing..and all.

This is/perfectly..clear in/maximal test performance/and for EXACTLY..the reason you emphasize..that..You cannot interpret
the number..of..AT ALL,..[unless* you assume..either MAXIMAL motivation..or its/COMPLETE ABSENCE.]

Only..in..[by]..these two conditions..can you validly/COMPARE responses,..and..*you MUST assume the former,..because/if the LATTER is true,..the subject..WILL NOT..*DO ANYTHING.

Given..mans/VARIABLE motivation's..he WILL/do something,
but..you CANNOT..grasp/nor..UNDERSTAND..WHAT IT IS...let/alone..the success/point.

The RESULTS/of tests..are evaluated/relatively,[with/other/test-results]..of..lineal..or abstracted/knowledge..ASSUMING maximal motivation...

*But..this is because..we are dealing/with rateable/measurable/ABILITIES,..where degree of..progress/away..from/nuthin..thus any/development..over/nothing..IS meaningful.

This does-NOT mean..that what/which/how/when..regarding..ability
is used..FOR..is..then..necessarily either..determinedly..limited OR divided.

But one/thing is certain.
Abilities are..only..POTENTIALS..for learning,..and you..then
will need/apply.. motivational/..to..the application..of them/as-to WHAT..YOU WANT TO LEARN...by them;\.

Learning is EFFORT,..and effort MEANS will.

You will notice..that we have/used the
term..“abilities”.as a plural.. which is correct.

This is because abilities..*began with/the ego,.which..first
perceived..them as a..POTENT(*IAL FOR..higher/reward/achieving/EXCELLING.

This is how..the ego STILL...needs
perceives them..and..AB-uses them...[we dont loose our ego[only control/it..for civil-discourse.]

It..does NOT want/to teach everyone..all it has learned,
because that would DEFEAT..*its purpose in learning.[implied/survival-advantage].

Therefore,..it does/not REALLY..*learn at all.
The Holy Spirit..teaches YOU..to use..*what the/ego has made
to TEACH..the opposite..of what the ego..has LEARNED.

The KIND of/learning..is as irrelevant/as is
the particular ability..which was applied/TO..the learning.

You could not/have..a better example..of/this..[the/Holy Spirit’s unified purpose]..than..as relived..in/this course...

The Holy Spirit has/taken..very diversified areas..of YOUR/OWN.past learning,..and..*has applied them*.to..a UNIFIED curriculum.

The fact..that this/was..NOT..the ego’s..*reason/for learning..is totally irrelevant...*YOU..FREELY..made the effort..to learn,..
and the Holy Spirit/has..a/unified goal..for ALL effort.

He;..ADAPTS/the ego’s potentials...for excelling/self
to potentials..*for/EQUALIZING...[other]

revealing..gods great gifts
[and..the..ego/s..great-grifts]

This makes..them USELESS..for the ego’s purpose,
but..the..extreme/example..is VERY useful for tHis.

jesus/trinity..IT ALL=WE ARE GOD*

Called “Evangelii Gaudium,”..(the Joy of the Gospel),
http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm

the document offers..the Roman Catholic Church..a road map of sorts for navigating..the complexities of the..modern world,..with the Gospel..as a compass for.;.what the pope..called

“a new phase..of ev-angelization,.
*one marked by..enthusiasm..joy..and vitality.”

The document,..a papal pronouncement known as an apostolic exhortation, was the first major written work Francis has created since he was chosen eight months ago to lead the 2,000-year-old church.

It challenges the church to “abandon the complacent attitude that says: ‘We have always done it this way,'” to find novel, “bold and creative” ways to speak to the faithfuland to make the church more meaningful.

The 84-page document is essentially a compendium of what Pope Francis has said in dozens of speeches and sermons since he became pope in March. “It is the fruit of personal reflection,” the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said at a news conference. “There is coherence between the words of the documents and the actions of the pope.”

An apostolic exhortation does not define Church doctrine, and the document makes clear that some issues – like abortion, or the ordination of women – are not up for discussion.

But there is an acknowledgment too, that the world has changed, and that the church must change with it. It is time, Pope Francis said, for “still broader opportunities for a more incisive female presence in the Church,” in particular “in the various other settings where important decisions are made.”

The local church must have greater say in decision-making, and the renewal of the church can only gain strength if it begins from the bottom up, the pope said.

Bishops and priests on the ground have a better sense of the needs of the faithful, as well as their frustrations, and parishes should become a critical part of the church’s evangelization and outreach.

A parish should be a point of “contact with the homes and the lives of its people,” and not a “useless structure out of touch with people or a self-absorbed cluster made up of a chosen few,” he wrote.

http://www.news.va/en/news/synthesis-of-the-apostolic-exhortation-the-joy-of

from
http://www.news.va/en/news/synthesis-of-the-apostolic-exhortation-the-joy-of

With regard to the scarcity..of vocations in many places, he emphasizes that “seminaries..cannot accept candidates on the basis of any..motivation whatsoever”.

With regard to the theme of in-culturation,[special wurds?] he remarks that “Christianity does..not have simply one cultural expression” and that..the face of the Church is..“varied”.

“We cannot demand that peoples of every continent, in expressing their Christian faith, imitate modes of expression which European nations developed at a particular moment of their history”.

The Pope reiterates that “underlying popular piety … is an active evangelizing power” and encourages the research of theologians, reminding them however..that “the Church and theology exist to evangelize”[IN COMPREHENSIBLE WORDS*}..

and urging them..not to be
“content with a desk-bound theology”.
[why/ignore/daffy..guys]..he is key*[your all literate*]

He focuses...“somewhat meticulously,.on the homily”, since “many concerns have been expressed..about this important ministry and we cannot simply ignore them”.

The homily “should be brief..[simple].and avoid taking on the semblance..of a speech or a lecture”,..*should be a “heart-to-heart communication”..*and..*avoid “purely moralistic*or doctrinaire” preaching.

He highlights the importance of preparation: “a preacher who does not prepare is not ‘spiritual’;..he is dishonest and irresponsible”.

Preaching should always *be positive[fearless]..in order always to “offer hope” and “does not..leave us trapped..in.[illusion-ist]...selectivity/nor..negativity”.

The approach to the proclamation of the Gospel should have positive characteristics: “approachability, readiness for dialogue, patience, a warmth and welcome which is non-judgemental”.

In relation to the challenges of the contemporary world, the Pope denounces the current economic system as “unjust at its root”. “Such an economy kills” because the law of “the survival of the fittest” prevails.

The current culture..of the “disposable” has
created “something new”: “the..excluded are not*..the ‘exploited’ but the outcast,..the ‘leftovers’”.[word-poor]

“A new tyranny is thus born,..invisible..EXCLUSIVE*..and often virtual”,..[in/lue-of vital*..

of an “autonomy of the market”..[fad/creed].in which “financial speculation”..and “widespread corruption” and “self-serving tax-evasion reign”...

greed..over-rule..the christian/DUTY..of/simply meeting..of basic/need..let alone comforts..[the comforter..is coming/joyfully]..

more out of courtesy..than expectation
im talking of pappa's injunctions..alone if needs be

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6119&page=0

what now your not even..helping the pope?

hi..peter

we need a document
any suggestions how to get it?

the story..so..far

recall..pater/met with nutty yahoo..and gave pappa a book
for me..that was a sign..that the 'ones of god..'god..it'
this whole ..zionthing..is abouit bring down gods people

SECULAR state..mate
get it?

anyhow..i expect pappa to not only visist..the forbidden areas
but that he visit it by sea..[if you get me]

WHY>>is/it..relevant?
[those..who dont/learn-the\LESSONS/of..the past/repeat-it

its..funny..how..a throw-away..line
be-comes..more/reliant..only/after reposing..further..info..came.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15786&page=0

yet..it did..[funny/how..the big thing..
they/have..*in-common..is/not..race..

[their..both semites]
but..yet/kept segre-gated..in..gulages..[slums]..and by artifices..implying..a lesser/servile being*/being..sub-servient-servant*

to...a mater*class
it/is..class_war..nelson..not race-wars

noted/..Lawrence Of Arabia,..has a big role..in/the israel thing
i guess..this explains..his..'after/life'..experiences..

[maybe..there is a/clue..there..that may/help..here]
http://www.divinetruth.com/PDF/People/Other/Jane%20Sherwood%20-%20Post%20Mortem%20Journal.pdf

i expect..nelson..will too/soon..correct the record

anyhow..source/info..here-under/extracted..from..page 2

http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/Netanyahu-s-Flawed-Vatican-by-James-Wall-Arab_Catholic_Father_History-131202-986.html

an article..re netenyahoos..gift of a book..to the pope
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Netanyahu-s-Flawed-Vatican-by-James-Wall-Arab_Catholic_Father_History-131202-986.html

the book
http://amzn.to/18bUy20

anyhow

This SECRET*..Vatican document..is referenced
in an important/new book..by Scott Anderson,..Lawrence In Arabia: War, Deceit,..Imperial Folly..and the Making of/the Modern Middle East.

sorry for treating your thread..as a letter drop
but..can..we make this christ-mass..more like 'thanks-giving'

ie the father..invites ANYONE/every-one
into..ANY/every..church/mosque temple..[in the world]
to/share the fact..that him*born..this day..by his death..AND RETURN*

refuted..both judgments day..and resurrection day
by returning..on the 3 rd day

what i see..[ok envision]..id wee forgive and forget
and just share what we have..inther places we all go..to avoid being alone

especially..on/this chosen sacred day..of our [mankind's Savior]
peace..on earth..holding..the sacred..menorah..by its true meaning

NOT..beat-up..the athiest star*

but the idea..if evolving off the rough edges..from davids star
plus stopping the atheist..of gods holy lands by SECULAR-zionist

maybe we can return..BACK-to the lamp-stand

..to all..those who engage..in..the study
of..the Torah..and not of..the laws of war*

YOU..who....have adopted..as..a state-symbol
the menorah..(candlebrum).

<<..which is explained..in the Tenach..
(on..the occasion of..a previous return..to the Holy Land).

as,WRITTEN

*"not..with..*armed force*..and..not with power,*....*KEY*
but..*in My spirit..says..the..Lord of Hosts.">>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#176496

the feast of lights/pilgrims/sharing the joy/of our infinite fruits

wow..what a papal message..come..eat
we bring food for the soul/no..preaching..allowed
this is a day..for sharing the joy[giving it back to god..regardless of the messenger

quick version
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#177801

repeated every day..till the feasts of feasts
[his rebirth day]..when he joins us..in..spirit..maDE..FLESH
ON THE THIRD DAY..oops yelling mass-age..means message ends.ahhh men

mene mene many-eh?