JF Aus

<<it is about agencies spying on agencies>>
With all due respect I think you may be seeing what you want to see

<< General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono said his agency tapped ... politicians' phone calls>>
"Politicians calls" --pretty open ended --might well include calls back home to their family?

And the above gentleman's admission included bugging the Australian embassy:http://newsmilitary.com/pages/20002228-indonesian-spies-bugged-australian-embassy That being the case, *ANYONE* who used the embassy's services would have been spied on.

So again, I say: "YOU FIRST!" Mr SBY

JF Aus, what do you think about heads of governments who use insecure phones ?
Do you think they are victims or stupid ?

Did you miss the story about Obama and his Blackberry ?
No one taps him.

connect the dots?

Report from Iron Mountain unveils a hitherto top-secret report of a government commission that was requested to explore the consequences of lasting peace on American society.

http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/reportironmountain1.shtml

The shocking results of the study, as revealed in this report, led the government to conceal the existence of the commission--they had found that, among other things, peace may never be possible;

*that even if it were, it would probably be un-desirable, that "defending the national interest" is not the real purpose of war;
*that war is necessary;
that war deaths should be planned and budgeted.

REPORT FROM IRON MOUNTAIN tells the story of how the project was formed, how it operated, What happened to it.

It includes the complete verbatim text
of the commission's hitherto classified report.

so will it be dis-info
or coded..info ..who..i knows only you could decide
being talked of here/now

http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/shoutcast/shoutcast.html

onthebeach...<If your purpose in saying that was to support the author's contention that the population should be wary of government, you succeeded. At the same time you justified private legal ownership of firearms. For if there is to be any limit on government abusing its power, it is only the reality of the people having some practical means of effectively resisting government, that works. Perhaps the US founding fathers knew something about the risk of losing precious liberty when they promoted the existence of a 'well regulated militia'.>

I like what you say in this post, onthebeach,
I have always felt conflicted by the gun control in Australia,
although it has helped to stop massacres like Port Arthur
and those we see regularly in America, however I have always said that
in a time of Anarchy I would much rather as a private citizen be armed.

I have thought about why Americans defend so strongly their right to
remain armed and I realized they have fought two wars on home soil
the American war of Independance and the America Civil War.

IN Australia, although we fought the Japanese in World War 2,the
enemy was from without.
We have never had to take up weapons to defend ourselves from
a government or enemy from within,(our fellow countrymen)and so
we have a different mind set to the Americans on the necessity of
remaining armed. The Americans could well have taken the
right course in the long run despite the downside of massacres
by crazed gunmen. I think those two American wars have left
deep scars and a healthy wariness in the American psyche.

SPQR,

I suggest you leave my sentence in full context, as copied here:
"Spying on a president or pm and wife via their modern mobile phones in this day and age is absolutely different to government agencies spying on each other or on criminal activity. No doubt about that."

It's the difference between essential Aus national security spying, and spying on another persons wife.
Crux of this matter is about one country spying on another country because of terrorism, therefore for example one government agency would be spying on another government agency - involving different religious beliefs.

In any case I were Aus PM, I would be sensible and man enough to apologise as Mr Obama did to M/s Merkel.

Bazz,
Certainly not stupid. That race has been there thousands of years compared to our race that elected a budgie smuggling media-selfie. I can still see the gaga smile to the camera from the drivers seat of a fire truck. What's more, genuine volunteers have to pay their own petrol to get to volunteer.

Without due and honest apology, just wait and see what happens to Aus beef exports to Indonesia.

I think every minute of delay is increasing severe economic consequences for all Australians.

JF, I think you are a bit naive, I think it will come down to a mutual
unspoken statement, but a wink wink nod nod, say no more.
The current situation is worse for Indonesia than Australia.

Despite all the umbrage they were happy to take delivery of a fleet of
transport aircraft.