Good morning all,

Thanks for this further input.

@Hasbeen, re: “compared to where you are, Oz could almost seem OK.”

Oz looks fantastic from anywhere, anytime. The question was posed earlier: has there been a better-managed economy than Australia 2009-2013? Suggestions, H?

Re: “You do know they [Ford] have given up on Oz don't you”

Bolstering the case of this article again, H. Have you read what Ford actually said?

http://www.ford.com.au/about/newsroom-result?article=1249024395989

Or are you still swallowing the lies of the criminal Murdoch empire?

@Spindoc, re: “pick your favorites from this list.”

This also bolters the article, Spindoc.

Remember, it endeavoured to demonstrate that Australia’s media – Murdoch, Fairfax and the ABC – act in lock-step to prevent customers knowing what’s really happening.

Evidence was offered from Press Council findings and elsewhere. You responded, “Australians have been exposed to a great deal of spin from our current government”

Querying this, you were asked: “What is an example of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true?”

Your list provides none. In fact, the opposite. Many of those are false allegations the media has concocted regarding the Government.

For example, ‘pink batts’. Now comprehensively shown to be a classic example of the media concealing the truth.

See here: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/04/24/the-csiro-gets-hip-to-debunking-media-hysteria/

You include “Freedom of speech legislation”. Same problem, Spindoc. Another area of fabrication by the media, not by the Government. Refer here:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14635

Re: “[Alan] is suggesting that Australians are not capable of making our own decisions and are driven by the media.”

Almost correct, Spindoc. Australians are perfectly capable of making sound decisions based on information received. They are currently being actively prevented from accessing accurate information. As in North Korea.

Three areas were nominated: (1) lowest rate of ministerial resignations in the Westminster world, (2) world’s best economy, and (3) foreign affairs quadfecta.

We have now added (4) Ford’s investment in Australia and (5) CSIRO’s pink batts research.

To bolster your position, Spindoc, we need examples of the Gillard Government presentating untruthful assertions. You can have an extension.

Cheers,

You are a lib plant aren't you Alan.

Your drastically over the top gilding Labor, & suggesting the ABC is not left of Khrushchev must be designed to put people off our lying left.

Dear Alan,

Welcome back. I note you still depend upon dated post modernist deconstruction as a means of defending your assertions. The list I provided was not intended as statements of fact, they were intended to point out that these issues you raised are the “perception” issues that you assert have been distorted by the media, they are important to the Australian people in spite of the media and not because of it.

In the end it doesn’t matter how you defend these issues because you don’t vote in Australia, we do.

If you wish to defend the government on the perceptions of these issues to the public, feel free. We don’t see them as negotiable and we are certainly not swayed by external non resident commentators who seek to pontificate to Australians that our sentiments are wrong.

Your problem is that having raised these issues, you fail to identify with the 75% of Australians who do not share your perceptions. That is your problem and no amount of pointing the finger over the high moral ramparts will make one iota of difference.

I mentioned earlier that some people have no defense mechanism against ideological bulltish, you put yourself in that frame, not us.

I personally relish the defense you offer, because Australians are much smarter than you imagine. We have made up our minds, we will not be swayed by pseudo- intellectuals, and are happy that you continue your journey of folly, the pursuit of that which is contrary to self interest.

The more you pontificate, the deeper the poo you get yourself into. It is this mantra that has driven our government into the garbage can and you are assisting, many thanks.

If you wish to have a voice in our democracy all you have to do is return and vote, just like the rest of us.

Sniping from behind the sandbags is un-Australian; you are pulling the pin on the hand grenade and throwing the pin, then you have the audacity to blame the media for telling you that you just blew your own legs off.

Hello again,

Intriguing discussion.

@SPQR, thanks for joining us. Would you like to have a shot at the outstanding questions. There are six which appear to have stumped the panel:

1. [@Runner] Is there a specific claim in the article that you think is unfair or unsupported?. With links to evidence supporting your counter-assertion where available.

2. [@Hasbeen] Can you point to examples of mainstream media reportage in recent times which reflect acceptance of lies and economic illiteracy from political parties other than the Liberal and National parties?

3. [@LEGO and Aspley] When was the last time you heard bias towards Labor or the Greens from ABC News or Current Affairs? An example?

4. [@ Spindoc] Examples of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true?

5. Can you point to any mainstream media report which has acknowledged fairly any of these accomplishments of the Gillard Government: (1) the lowest rate of ministerial resignations in the Westminster world since 1820, (2) world’s best economy ever, and (3) substantial foreign affairs successes followed by four-fold international recognition?

6. [@Hasbeen again] Where and when has there ever been a better-managed economy than Australia 2009-2013?

Thanks, SP.

@praxidice, re “I don't doubt that Howard & Co were infinitely more capable money-managers than KRudd/Gillard”

Really? Based on what? Any supporting data?

Agree with most of your other observations though, Praxi.

@Hasbeen, re “Your drastically over the top gilding Labor”

Can you see how this confirms the validity of the article's argument, H?

Nothing ‘gilding’ has been asserted anywhere about Labor. There have been straightforward factual observations and some probing questions. But because there has been an absence of blind condemnation of your Government, it appears to you as ‘gilding’.

Can you see how it looks as though you have been profoundly influenced by the pervasive mainstream media, Hasbeen?

@Spindoc, re “I note you still depend upon dated post modernist deconstruction”

And I note that I have answered your questions but you have not answered mine.

A further extension, Spindoc? No problem.

Cheers,

Alan

u cherry pick a few headlines to confirm your arguement. A far stronger test of ABC bias is to ask conservatives or liberals whether they would like the taxpayer saved the wasted money to push the Green agenda, the homosexual agenda and the multi cultural agenda. I as a conservative and most I know would not shed one tear if they were disposed of. Many, many liberals/leftist would lose their voice and probably protest violently on the streets if Abbott was to do the honourable thing and get rid of the ABC. You are in complete denial.

Dear Alan,

You’re going round in circles.

That << ABC news and current affairs present the same pro-Coalition coverage of national affairs as the corporate news media >>.

This is an opinion forum so we can all express our own. Even If I were to accept your proposition that the ABC now stands accused of being pro-coalition it makes no difference whatsoever.

As consumers of the media’s products it is still “buyer beware”. Every consumer can take away whatever they choose to believe. You chose to believe something completely different to me. I do get frustrated that all the media outlets fall far short of professional news and current affairs reporting.

That said, I also accept that the days of Fleet Street style reporting are long gone. In today’s world we mostly we have opinion peddling of syndicated events, no use complaining about it as there is little we can do to change it.

For many there is still an expectation that we are getting something other than just opinion. This is where our own filters come into play. If we look at the broadest spectrum of available N&CA, even embracing international outlets, we see a staggering range of coverage of the same item.

It’s the consumer’s responsibility to sort out what we chose to believe because it is predominantly opinion. If we are pragmatic, objective, inquisitive and skeptical, we can normally get a good handle on what is going on.

If on the other hand we refuse to accept the reality that it is mostly opinion, need something that fits only our framework of perception and only have an ideological compass against which to test what we absorb, then like you, there will be accusations of bias and prejudice, which is of course true so just accept it and work with it.

By trying to drill down into every detail, comment or opinion, you are going in the wrong direction. You need to work upwards towards the bigger picture rather than down into ever more complex content.

I hope you find the reality you’re looking for