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The Forum > Article Comments > Public funding for ABC News is no longer defensible > Comments

Public funding for ABC News is no longer defensible : Comments

By Alan Austin, published 6/6/2013

ABC news and current affairs present the same pro-Coalition coverage of national affairs as the corporate news media.

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I suspect this article must be in the style of Ben Pobjie of New Matilda, whose satire is beyond me.
Posted by Peter Bobroff, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:18:42 AM
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Whether it was intentional or not, this is the funniest thing I have read in years.

The author claims to be domiciled in France. I would suggest he actually lives on the dark side of the Moon.
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:29:33 AM
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A sign of the times Alan, tin ears all round and massively manipulated public sentiment?
If Aunty is privatised, well there remains the social media, and far more reliance on it, by many more, for accurate impartial reporting and the odd exposure of corrupt officials?
I am enormously comforted by the knowledge that an Abbott led Govt., will turn back the boats, make a difference from day one, increase defence spending, lower tax margins and massively outperform labour as an economic manager, with endless assistance from the tooth fairy! LOL.
Actually, I predict a recession, climbing unemployment numbers and further reduction of tax receipts; and, a one term Coalition Govt., that changes Australia's most unpopular leader, halfway through its term?
Even so, there is little doubt, we will get the Govt. we so richly deserve!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:31:56 AM
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Alan, you have largely confined your criticism to the ABC's non-critical stance toward the Coalition and its spokespersons, but my criticism would go way beyond that. My own interest and relative expertise is in foreign affairs and I therefore claim some ability to assess the ABC's coverage in these areas. To say that it is abysmal is to be kind. When coverage of foreign issues occurs it is almost invariably sourced from a very limited number of (mainly US) agencies.

The depth of coverage and insight into what is really going on is virtually non-existent. Time after time whatever the current official version is is simply parroted without analysis, insight, or even reflection of reality.

Whole areas are simply ignored or when alluded to reflect some long discredited view, completely ignorant of modern scholarship. It matters in my view because Australia blindly stumbles after the US in so many areas and risks suffering major disadvantages in trade, foreign relations, and general respect in the world as a consequence.

SBS is following the same path. I do not think that privatising the ABC is the answer because it will simply become another commercial clone. The real solution possibly lies in the continuing strengthening of the alternative, mainly online, media.
Posted by James O'Neill, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:40:22 AM
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Yeah, lets sell the ABC because of it's pro conservative and anti green and labor bias. The journalists at the ABC will go along with that.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:55:46 AM
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Yeah, lets sell the ABC because of it's pro conservative and anti green and labor bias. The journalists at the ABC will go along with that. Better still lets create a charter that demands non bias and representative views and sack anybody who shows such blatand stupidity.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 6 June 2013 9:58:00 AM
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James O'Neill - The real solution possibly lies in the continuing strengthening of the alternative, mainly online, media.

I think you are correct, whilst there are issues with online media, they are probably less restrictive of free speech than mainstream TV / radio / hard-copy media. Furthermore, low establishment cost provides the ability for anyone to start a blog / forum / whatever, and means there will always be alternatives to the ones created and / or highjacked by one-eyed drones, educated idiot do-gooders & system apparatchiks infiltrated to divert discussions away from territory dangerous to 'the system'.

The party faithful of whatever colour & other assorted fanatics have every right to their say, however an obvious failing of mainstream media, including for that matter the ABC / SBS, is their propensity to become the exclusive voice of only a few. Human nature being what it is, we all have a tendency to believe our ideas are the perfect solution and those of everyone else are crap. True freedom of expression allows everyone their say, whether or not we agree is immaterial. Unfortunately the advent of political correctness when combined with the pre-existing mainstream media has spelled the death knell of free speech, thereby relegating those entities for the most part to irrelevance. Media moguls like Murdoch and to a lesser extent BC / SBS are battling frantically to retain their erstwhile control but ultimately are destined to join the dinosaurs.
Posted by praxidice, Thursday, 6 June 2013 10:14:21 AM
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The ABC and SBS is the only quality TV we have that does not rely on it's funding from mind-numbing television shows foisted on the public and which have become normalised.

Lets not reduce the ABC and SBS to commercial entities. The important aspect of public funded television media is independence. It is already been tainted when advertising was allowed on SBS and later increased to interrupt shows rather than between shows.

The fact that both the Left and Right are lamenting bias at the ABC means it must be doing it's job. It is the job of journalists to question politicians and expect proper answers rather than the mealy mouthed versions coming from politicians of all stripes. That means the ABC is doing it's job.
Posted by pelican, Thursday, 6 June 2013 11:03:06 AM
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…View the ABC not as a source of information and news, but a conveyor belt for propaganda direct from parliament in Canberra.

Looked at through that prism of understanding Aunty makes all the sense in the world...!!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 6 June 2013 11:31:08 AM
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Alan knows that the only people crying in their soup if the National Broadcasters were sold would be the leftist academics and the gay lobby. Please start a campaign Alan and you will find the only ones supporting you for the sale will be the conservatives. You really do deceive yourself.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2013 11:34:18 AM
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What a giggle, the ABC is biased to the coalition? Only the fringe blogs can be trusted. You're killing me!

A recent survey of the various news media confidentially polled the political allegiances of the staff. The ABC was made up of supporters of parties in approximately 40% greens, 40% labor and 20% others incl coalition.

Next time pull the other leg.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:26:19 PM
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James O'Neil says it true, as does Alan Austin. The ABC exhibits no independence, it is a reflection of mainstream opinion. Runner, the ABC has always been homophobic in its programming and reportage. It is also racist. Recently they announced that an Aboriginal man was taken into custody for... In another item, a remote Aboriginal community was the topic. In both cases the ethnicity was totally irrelevant. Were it any other race they would have said a young man was taken... not a young Chinese, Arab, Indian was apprehended.
Equally, a remote community is all that needed to be said, not identifying it as Aboriginal. They don't dare say the Vietnamese community, the Greek community... they're considered to be Australians, but apparently Aborigines are not yet Australians.
The ABC is a middle-class white, pro religion enterprise dedicated to preserving the status quo. I will not be sorry to see it disappear.
Posted by ybgirp, Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:33:06 PM
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Alan's just trying to be clever; we had another post recently by an islamic gentleman who turned the usual complaints about islam back against the West; that is, it really was the West which is a cruel, violent, intolerant ideology not poor old peace-loving islam.

Alan has simply done the same with the abc; to counter the claims that the abc is indisputably biased against the conservative side not only of politics but society in general, he says the abc is really pro-Abbott.

It's Abbott, Abbott, Abbott all the way at the abc!

It's a typically warped distraction and exercise in McTeirnan type wedging. Too clever by half.

If anyone wants to know the real state of affairs at the abc all they have to do is look at this:

http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/loopy-virginia-trioli-doesny-know-who.html

Trioli, the 'face' of abc balance excellently summed up by Bolt, a real journalist:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/no_mark_you_cannot_be_so_ignorant_of_the_bias_of_your_abc/
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:38:22 PM
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ybgirp

so we all agree the ABC is useless. Let's get rid of it and pay back some of the billions Labour has squandered.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:43:56 PM
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Cohenite... "cruel, violent, intolerant"... Surely the group of countries that between them have been at constant war against other countries for over a century should be labelled thus? After all, the USA and its allies have supported vicious dictators in a dozen countries to murder, mutilate and opress their citizens. We have caused the deaths of half a million children, disfigurement and anguish to future generations by releasing depleted uranium, bombed and destroyed the infrastructure of an ancient, huge city and most of the other cities in Iraq, then we did the same to Afghanistan. Our allies, the USA, caused the endless famines in North Korea by deliberately blowing up their dams after they had accepted defeat so their entire food crops and all the fertile soils were washed away. Then, after murdering and maiming millions in Vietnam they decided to get rid of excess bombs by using villages as target practise in neighbouring Laos - an impoverished society that had taken no part in the war, so their children are still being maimed daily by stepping on unexploded bombs. Our great friend the USA supported the murder of thirty thousand Sukarno supporters in order to install their puppet Suharto. Before that they murdered, maimed, tortured and imprisoned millions of Philippinos who resisted their occupation... I'll stop there, the list of the vile atrocities perpetrated by our allies the USA is too long and too depressing. Yes, militant Islam is unpleasant, but no more so than militant Christianity, militant free market capitalism or any other militant faith. Pretending everyone else is at fault and your side is perfect and has no faults will not provide a solution to the world's problems.
Posted by ybgirp, Thursday, 6 June 2013 1:02:56 PM
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Well, after careful thought, I have come to the conclusion that Alan must have applied for his old job back at the ABC, & been knocked back. Why else would a rat bag lefty attack a rat bag lefty propaganda network that has proved so loyal.

Only he, & perhaps a few radical rat bag lefty academics could ever accuse our ABC of not being left of Khrushchev.

I have for some time, wondered why Graham continues to publish this bloke, & I think I have now, with this ludicrous piece, found the answer.

He must have reckoned that given enough rope he would make a laughing stock of himself, & by association, the Labor party.

Well Graham was right, this is very much laughing stock material, but hell, our illustrious labor Party, with it's current leadership, needs absolutely no help in making a laughing stock of itself.

I suppose with Julia & company doing their best to destroy our economy, & country, we should be glad of some light relief,& a few belly laughs, so keep on writing Alan, it does lighten the day.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 6 June 2013 1:25:14 PM
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What a great Article !

Total rubbish , of course, but it raises important concerns about the ABC.

The Green (41% )and Socialist Left(34%)Journalists regard the ABC as their own Tax payer funded Play Toy, to offset the Murdoch Empire.

Fairfax and the ABC work hand in glove , as ANY online reader of Fairfax would know , so the Writers ascertains about Fairfax are codswallop.

The BIGGEST problem with the ABC is it's overwhelming production of political propaganda , Any Tony Jones show, Cassidys' efforts,7.30, Lateline and especially 'The Drum".

Don't get me started on that piece of Lefty self indulgent Talkfest , 'The Drum'!

They ,the ABC, ignoring the Children ABC3 , have allocated more that half the ABC TV Broadcasting to Political Opinion and News.

Whatever happened to the ABC Charter to broadcast the Arts , Culture especially Live Sympathy Orchestras, Opera , Ballet etc. Cultural Events have disappeared as has light Entertainment and Drama.

What drama the produce generally has a 'message' or is blatantly political. I see another Show about that "disaster" aka as Whitlam or the ALP , I will throw up.

Solution , after 9/14 ( like that ? ) TA should "gut" the ABC by getting rid of ALL content on ABC24 and replacement with Cultural Events , Arts and Drama.

On ABC1 , All Political Opinion Shows ( Lateline etc) should be dumped, along with "Political" episodes of Australian Story, leaving Just the 7.30 Report.

In other words the ABC MUST revert back to it's ORIGINAL Charter and CEASE being the publicly funded Toy of political pressure Groups !
Posted by Aspley, Thursday, 6 June 2013 1:29:44 PM
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pelican - The fact that both the Left and Right are lamenting bias at the ABC means it must be doing it's job.

Good point, but how long can the ABC / SBS continue to be even remotely 'independent' given concerted onslaughts from both sides ??
Posted by praxidice, Thursday, 6 June 2013 1:37:29 PM
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This is the funniest article I have read in a long time. The author would have to be further to the Left than Chairman Mao to see pro-coalition threads in the ABC.

In fact, as the demise of the Labor Party looms on the horizon, the ABC is constantly plugging the Australian version of the Guardian where I suspect their journos will reassemble awaiting the arrival of their buddies from Fairfax who fear the imminent arrival of Gina R.

Constantly pushing of their Left wing agenda has scared the pants of those who now see those they criticised so heavily coming to take power.
Posted by Atman, Thursday, 6 June 2013 2:47:06 PM
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yes well the smirking Tony Jones will be crying come September along with 85% plus of his stacked panel. All their propoganda and misreprentation has come to nought.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 June 2013 2:58:35 PM
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Alan says: “the speech was soon dismantled systematically by analysts outside the mainstream media. These included Bernard Keane at Crikey, Alan Kohler at Business Spectator, Ben Eltham at New Matilda, Helen Hodgson at the International News Magazine and an observer in France at On Line Opinion.”

That “observer in France” being, of course, Alan

Are we supposed to be persuaded by this?
Posted by Rhian, Thursday, 6 June 2013 3:06:02 PM
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As for the title of the thread, I reckon that the ABC and SBS should be flogged off, and the nest of greenies flushed out.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 6 June 2013 3:30:24 PM
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Apsley. Yep, liked that. Mind if I plagiarise that into the future?

The ABC supporting the coalition? What planet is this guy living on?

Since the cruel, sexist, and deeply personal and artless tasteless tirade against Gina Rinhard on Q&A some time back, I have ceased to watch any current affairs program's on the ABC.

I wonder if the ABC and SBS news departments have been able to figure out the possible motivation of the murderers of the British serviceman yet.

The organisation is beyond redemption as a 'news' outlet. Sell the lot and maybe keep the kids programming.
Posted by Prompete, Thursday, 6 June 2013 3:39:53 PM
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Interesting discussion. Thank you.

Some responses:

@Rhrosty, re “If Aunty is privatised, there remains the social media”

Correct. This is why few will lament the ABC’s eventual break-up and sale.

@James O'Neill, re: “you have largely confined your criticism to the ABC's non-critical stance toward the Coalition”

Correct, James. And specifically regarding the economy.

Re: “whatever the current official version is is simply parroted without analysis, insight, or even reflection of reality.”

Yes. The problem, I suspect, is that with Murdoch’s criminal empire the biggest employer of Australian journalists, few are courageous enough to challenge its agenda. Hence the lock-step.

Re: “I do not think that privatising the ABC is the answer because it will simply become another commercial clone.”

Will become, James? Or there already? The newsroom would certainly appear to be. Not sure about other departments.

Re: “The real solution … strengthening of the alternative, mainly online, media.”

Agree completely.

@Praxidice, re: “True freedom of expression allows everyone their say, whether or not we agree is immaterial.”

Yes and no. Are you distinguishing between opinion and factual reportage? We must certainly defend freedom of opinion and ideas.

But do we want to defend the rights of newsrooms to fabricate and deceive? Or should news and current affairs outlets report what is actually said and done?

@Pelican, re: “The fact that both the Left and Right are lamenting bias at the ABC means it must be doing it's job.”

Is this still true today, Pelican? Are concerns with ABC News matters of Left and Right? Or matters of truthfully reporting actuality?

@Diver Dan, re: “View the ABC not as a source of information and news, but a conveyor belt for propaganda direct from parliament in Canberra.”

Perhaps that's the key issue, Dan. The dominant news organisations – Murdoch, Fairfax, ABC – are actually refusing to be a conduit from Canberra. Rather, they are observing what the Government is doing and saying but reporting something else entirely. Sometimes the direct opposite of the truth.

No?

@Rhian, re: “Are we supposed to be persuaded by this?”

On its merits, Rhian.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Thursday, 6 June 2013 4:11:47 PM
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Alan Austin - But do we want to defend the rights of newsrooms to fabricate and deceive? Or should news and current affairs outlets report what is actually said and done?

We can't defend the indefensible, all media-mogul controlled media operation & all under gubmunt control are subject to biased reporting. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any workable control system that functions in the face of effectively unlimited money and / or influence, leastwise none that involve either self-regulation or ostensibly 'independent' gubmunt / bureaucratic controls.

Whilst in some ways I'd hate to see the end of ABC / SBS, I do think it inevitable that one or other version of our present utterly unaccountable political tribes manage to either sell the operation(s) or otherwise adjust them to ulterior ends. Considering this, I figure at least part of their place is probably best taken up in the future by a number of smaller & hopefully truly independent online forum / blog / news / current affairs sites. If / when the NBN rollout is completed, there will also be enhanced potential for streaming video.
Posted by praxidice, Thursday, 6 June 2013 4:49:08 PM
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Radio National News is a scandal. Fix that, and the tin-eared complaints department, and I will put up with the endless music shows and interruptions. The specialists such as Health Report, Bush Telegraph, Hindsight etc must be kept.

Radio National News is a farrago of about ten headlines from sports, overseas and domestic news all mixed together, with a Brisbane car crash coming before 10,000 dead overseas.It has no insight into what is happening. It is read by a series of newsreaders - most of them one-offs or nearly so. Why? How much does this cost?

Sack the newsroom. Get something better, and you neednt sell the ABC.
Posted by ozideas, Thursday, 6 June 2013 5:20:40 PM
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Academic Bull$hit Company
Posted by individual, Thursday, 6 June 2013 6:10:33 PM
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I suppose it would be easier for the ABC to criticise Abbott if he had the balls to appear on it and answer a few questions from time to time, instead of getting soft-soaped by his shock-jock pals and walking away from any hard questions.

It seems the ABC is setting itself up to becomes Abbott's version of Pravda in exchange for no cuts in funding.
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 6 June 2013 11:54:48 PM
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You can all read Peter Reiths's frequent columns on ABS's The Drum Website or watch the TV version with it's representative spin merchants from both sides.

If that's not enough, Amanda Vanstone has a programme on Radio National every Monday afternoon, but be careful, it's very biassed toward the Liberal Party.

I recall Neville Wran and Bob Hawke in particular both had problems with the antagonism of the ABC toward the ALP. So much for left-wing bias.
Posted by rache, Friday, 7 June 2013 12:00:41 AM
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The ABC IS a left wing, asexual outfit which pandered to the ALP but now that that trough is is drying up they do the natural thing & suck up to the other lot. You can't possibly get a clearer display of lack of integrity than that. The Academics & bureaucrats are crapping themselves now that their excuse for an existence is going out the window. Imagine the panic they're in.
Posted by individual, Friday, 7 June 2013 5:31:13 AM
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...Your such a “Cynic” Individual…Keep up the good work…!!
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 7 June 2013 9:56:47 AM
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diver dan - .Your such a “Cynic” Individual…Keep up the good work…!!

He's a mere babe in the woods compared with moi :) :) :)
Posted by praxidice, Friday, 7 June 2013 10:18:16 AM
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Individual, obviously a fan of "the Biggest loser", "My kitchen Rules", "Deal or no Deal" etc etc of commercial televisions contribution to society !!
Posted by Kipp, Friday, 7 June 2013 5:08:28 PM
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Greetings again,

More interesting observations. Thanks.

@Runner, Hasbeen, Atman and Individual, you all seem dismissive of the article’s argument. But it’s not clear why.

One big advantage of the alternative online media is that we can reference other sources to bolster our claims – as Cohenite does here diligently.

This opinion piece tried to also, as indicated by the 30 or so links.

So if you are able to point to a specific claim in the article that you think is unfair or unsupported, please do so. With links to evidence supporting your counter-assertion where available. Thanks.

@Prompete, can you understand how curious it is to claim “The ABC supporting the coalition? What planet is this guy living on?” while also asserting “I have ceased to watch any current affairs program's on the ABC.”

Is it possible there has been a shift while you weren’t looking?

@Shadow Minister and Aspley, regarding the ‘recent survey of the various news media’, how recent? Did the survey break down ABC staff into departments?

The observations in this article relate to News and Current Affairs.

@ybgirp, re, “The ABC exhibits no independence, it is a reflection of mainstream opinion.”

Not sure, Ybgirp. The assertion is that ABC News and Current Affairs reflect the opinion and agenda of the global criminal Murdoch network. Not sure how mainstream that is. Perhaps so. The experience of the USA last year may be instructive. All Murdoch-owned news outlets and polling agencies confidently predicted a win to Mr Romney, didn’t they?

@Cohenite, thanks for the links. The Virginia Trioli one was hilarious. Excellent!

The Andrew Bolt one failed to convince. Just too many dodgy statements there, as usual.

@Praxidice, regarding “workable control system that functions in the face of effectively unlimited money and/or influence, leastwise none that involve either self-regulation or ostensibly 'independent' gubmunt/bureaucratic controls.”

Europe doesn’t seem to have this problem, Praxi. Seems to be confined to the English-speaking world, and particularly those countries where Murdoch’s corporation is influential. In one country, of course, it dominates.

Such is Australia’s doom.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Friday, 7 June 2013 5:28:36 PM
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Alan Austin - particularly those countries where Murdoch’s corporation is influential.

I understand Murdoch effectively owns the US hard copy press game although I don't follow yankee news. Surely the problem must be as entrenched though ?? .... after all a hyenas spots are pretty well attached (was going to say leopard, but that clown looks much more like a hyena)
Posted by praxidice, Friday, 7 June 2013 5:41:18 PM
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Alan , The survey is very recent, Late April, done by the Sunshine Coast University, It covered almost 900 News Jurnos in Print and TV.

The ABC is the one Organization out of kilter in The survey.

Actually, I did the figures off the top of my head.. it's closer to 40+% Green , Just under 40% Labor and 8% Coalition.

That % is well reflected in the ABC Bias.
Posted by Aspley, Friday, 7 June 2013 6:59:36 PM
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"the Biggest loser", "My kitchen Rules",
Kipp,
Deal I watch occasionally after returning from work. I steer well clear of the asexual shows.
I can hardly ever find a decent program to watch without those mindless commercials.
The ABC has so many promos that by the time the actual program goes to air you've already seen half of it. The SBS is the worst for promos but then it is a mere love child of that incestuous Parent public funded family business outfit called ABC.
Posted by individual, Friday, 7 June 2013 9:30:49 PM
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Alan what on earth makes you believe your thoughts carry any more weight, when you add a few references? WE all know that birds of a feather flock together, however they have nothing on the lefties of this world.

We get many on here adding references to some left propaganda sheet or another. We know that is all they read, & it looks as if you can be added to this group.

It is the same with those still silly to believe, or perhaps want to believe in the fraud. None of them would ever read anything not in the propaganda rags.

If you want to convince anyone, forget your references to authority, & make your own arguments strong enough to do the job.

Of course you will have to come down to earth, & face a few facts to do that. Your present cloud 9 views will never convince anyone with more than one eye.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 7 June 2013 9:51:00 PM
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The founding charter of the ABC was for it to provide impartial and reputable news coverage. Anyone who watches or listens to ABC news knows that this is a joke.

There has never been any diversity of opinion on the ABC. It has become the Ministry for Propaganda for the Labor party and The Greens. Some ABC supporters have indignantly claimed that this is not so, only to have their position invalidated by other supporters who claim that the left wing bias of the ABC counters the right wing bias of the free press.

Even if the charge that the ABC was a counterpoint to free press bias, it is still a violation of the original founding charter of the ABC, to give reputable and impartial news coverage.

I simply refuse to watch or listen to the ABC anymore (except the BBC World Service) because I got absolutely fed up of the ABC bias. Every time I turned on the ABC TV, there was some reporter crying over Mamdouth Habib, David Hicks, Cornelia Rowe, the "stolen generations" hoax, or boat people.

The rule of thumb if the ABC seems to be, "If it is not in the interests of ordinary Australians, we will support it."
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 8 June 2013 5:18:08 AM
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LEGO - Every time I turned on the ABC TV, there was some reporter crying over Mamdouth Habib, David Hicks, Cornelia Rowe, the "stolen generations" hoax, or boat people.

The normal consequence of letting educated idiot do-gooders out of their cages. There may be a case for these stories to be told however the steady stream of hopelessly one-sided sob-stories turned me off as well.
Posted by praxidice, Saturday, 8 June 2013 5:36:04 AM
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Greetings again,

Thanks for these further observations. Brief responses:

@Praxidice, re: “I understand Murdoch effectively owns the US hard copy press game”

Yes and no. Murdoch has substantial print and TV holdings in the USA. But his influence is much less there than in Australia.

Other American media voices have more credibility and are not tainted by Murdoch’s well-publicised criminal activites.

Plus Americans seem a bit more savvy about how his ‘journalists’ fabricate and distort than Australians seem to be.

For example: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/study-watching-fox-news-actually-makes-you-less-informed-20120524

@Aspley, re “That % is well reflected in the ABC Bias.”

Thanks for that clarification.

Can you point to any issue covered recently by ABC News or Current Affairs which you think reflects inappropriate bias? Say, in the last two years.

@Hasbeen, re: “If you want to convince anyone, forget your references to authority, & make your own arguments strong enough to do the job.”

Agree with this, Hasbeen. My links are not references to authority. They are examples of uncritical acceptance by ABC News and Current Affairs reporters of the sheer economic nonsense of Joe Hockey and the blatant lies from Tony Abbott.

Our concern should not be about Left or Right. But about truth and falsehood. No?

Can you – or anyone else – point to examples of reportage in recent times which reflect acceptance of lies and economic illiteracy from other political parties?

@LEGO, you are doing what Prompete and I suspect others are doing. You claim the ABC “has become the Ministry for Propaganda for the Labor party and The Greens”. But then admit “I simply refuse to watch or listen to the ABC anymore ...”

Are you sure you understand what is actually happening right now? When was the last time you heard bias towards Labor or the Greens? An example, Lego? Four of the five issues you mentioned were about six years ago. And the fifth – boat people – would seem another issue where ABC News and Current Affairs have also been in lock-step with Murdoch’s mendacious media in recent years.

Happy to look at specific instances.

Thanks,

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 8 June 2013 6:55:30 AM
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Actually Alan, the vast majority of responses to your article are examples of what is known as confirmation bias. People see what they want to see and seize upon items as "proof" of the allegations and broad generalisations that they insistently make.

That fact that most of the commenters complain about the "left wing bias" of ABC and SBS really says more about where they stand on the political/ideological spectrum than an objective analysis of the content of the program's they are criticising.

To accuse ABC and SBS as left wing is frankly ludicrous. Their perspective on most issues of foreign policy for example simply mimics that of US and UK imperialism. Put them in a Scandanavian context and they would be usually to the right of the centrist and conservative parties there.

A simple illustration of Australia's mind set is that Gillard Is described as being from the "Left" of the Labor Party. Yet the day she was appointed by her colleagues as PM she told the assembled reporters that her three foreign policy objectives were: the American alliance; maintaining the "mission" in Afghanistan; and support for the state of Israel.

Says it all really.
Posted by James O'Neill, Saturday, 8 June 2013 8:16:58 AM
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I'm trying to read between the lines here here & it strikes me as though Alan Austin is one of those who don't like Abbott & Hockey because they're straight. Gays & asexuals can not manage, how much more proof do people like Alan Austin need ? I say try to make friends with heterosexuals & you'll get a vastly different viewpoint (no pun intended).
Posted by individual, Saturday, 8 June 2013 8:37:48 AM
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individual,

"(no pun intended)"

What you should have said is:

"(no sense intended)"
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 8 June 2013 8:41:31 AM
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individual

I don't know that Alan Austins dislike for RAbbott / Hockey is necessarily 'because they are straight' My reasons for regarding RAbbott with the utmost include his involvement in the One Nation debacle, his support for the exorbitant salary rise & his questionable activities re the recent electoral funding affair, consequently Austin could well have similar thoughts or indeed something completely different. Certainly I'll degrade any politician significantly if they espouse pro-homosexual views, but thats by no means the only criteria I employ. Note that I have had mutually successful purely business relationships with queers in the past but the attitudes of homosexuals generally appears to have changed dramatically since Australia adopted politically correct protocols. As someone whose nick I forget suggested in another OLO discussion, infiltration of feminazis & educated idiot do-gooders appears to have been not exactly a good thing for homosexuals in general. Whilst there never has been a possibility of my support, I was quite happy to observe the 'consenting adults in private' principle. these days however I take a somewhat more jaundiced approach.
Posted by praxidice, Saturday, 8 June 2013 8:53:16 AM
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What you should have said is:

"(no sense intended)"
Poirot,
By the law of averages more people will get the gist although there'll always be a few Poirots who don't.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 8 June 2013 8:53:35 AM
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prax,

"...infiltration of feminazis & educated idiot do-gooders appears to have been not exactly a good thing..."

Infiltration of hackneyed phrases passed off as cogent argument has not exactly been a good thing either.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 8 June 2013 9:02:50 AM
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Dear Alan,

It is true that people’s perception is their own reality. Perception is created by the information we absorb which can be quite different to what is actually presented.

This because we create our own filters which are built on pragmatism, experience or ideology. Australians have been exposed to a great deal of spin from our current government which has sensitized the public to it. It is now wearing very thin as Australians become less inclined to believe it. Sadly for the spinners they can only respond with more spin and more often, which just makes thing worse.

Nine- MSM are currently running an on-line poll which asks the question “Does our government deserve to be reelected?” Respondents are logging 15,000 for YES and 45,000 for NO.

The same applies to the ABC, SBS, print media and the commercial channels. Whatever they present in their news and current affairs has to pass our filters. So when such as the ABC present N&CA’s we compare these against our filters and form our perceptions.

If we have a negative perception about a policy issue and our ABC aligns itself with the source of that negative perception, it too is tarred with the same brush.

Your article and subsequent responses are trying to tell us in excruciating detail, that our perceptions are incorrect, thus you have aligned yourself with what we have already rejected. Your explanations delve far too much into ideological detail when the majority of Australians are responding to pragmatism and experience. This is why you are so far off the mark.

In the last six years we have gone through one of the most intense periods of ideological PC, gender wars, divisive policy, socialization, elitism and intellectual bullying. Much of this platform has been driven, in the perception of many, by the ABC.

The ABC has created the public perception by its own actions. Its response when challenged is much the same at yours, more of that which got you into trouble in the first place.

Don’t argue against a public perception that you were party to creating
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 8 June 2013 9:10:22 AM
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Sorry Alan, I got the polling numbers wrong for question “Does the government deserve to be reelected?

The on-line polling is now running at 15,753 for YES and 56,151 for NO
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 8 June 2013 9:18:33 AM
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Dear Spindoc,

Thanks for this thoughtful letter.

Sound observations. Just a couple of points of difference.

Regarding, “Perception is created by the information we absorb which can be quite different to what is actually presented.”

True.

We probably differ on “what is actually presented.” Evidence suggests strongly that “what is presented” in Australia is not objective reality.

The point of this article and several preceding has been to demonstrate that Australia’s mainstream media – Murdoch, Fairfax and the ABC – actively prevent customers from knowing what’s really happening.

By omisson, by distortion and often sheer fabrication. Evidence is overwhelming. Refer the Australian Press Council.

You suggest, Spindoc, “Australians have been exposed to a great deal of spin from our current government”

Really? How?

By what means does the Government gets it message to the people?

What is an example of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true?

Observers abroad of Australian affairs are continually dismayed that Australia’s incredible success is seldom communicated.

Three examples:

1. Your Government recently eclipsed the Michael Savage Government in New Zealand (1935-40) for the lowest rate of ministerial resignations and sackings due to incompetence or corruption in the Westminster world since 1820.

2. Your Government has not only the best economy in the world now, but the best economy the world has ever seen – and this during the worst global economic crisis since the 1930s.

3. Your Government has restored all relationships with regional neighbours fractured during the previous regime. It has been rewarded for its foreign affairs achievements with a seat on the UN Security Council, plus chairing the Pacific Island Forum, plus the vote to chair next year’s G20 group of the world’s 20 major economies, plus your PM was given a standing ovation after addressing a joint sitting of the US Congress. No other administration has achieved that quadfecta.

Any other country achieving any of these would celebrate them.

Can you point to any mainstream media article/report which has acknowledged any of these accomplishments fairly?

Thanks, Spindoc.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 8 June 2013 10:01:47 AM
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Australia’s mainstream media – Murdoch, Fairfax and the ABC – actively prevent customers from knowing what’s really happening.
Alan Austin,
Yes & most journalists are University educated. Any figures on as to how many journalists there are from a non-academic background ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 8 June 2013 10:31:27 AM
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Good Morning Alan,

Another great discussion - Thank You.
Keep on stirring, you're doing a great job.

I've got to confess that I thoroughly enjoy
programs like - "Q and A," "MediaWatch,"
"Insiders," "7.30 Report," "News 24"
just to mention a few. I feel that
were these to go we would all be the poorer for it.

As we all know and as Julian Burnside has pointed out
in his article - "Good Media is Good For Democracy,"
the media in this country is notoriously narrow and
full of strident voices all giving us the same predictable
points of view. We need a place where we can get the
facts without a political agenda or bias.
I always thought that the ABC was such a place.
Posted by Lexi, Saturday, 8 June 2013 10:44:31 AM
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Dear Alan,

<< We probably differ on “what is actually presented.” Evidence suggests strongly that “what is presented” in Australia is not objective reality >>

Oops! Did you just mix up “evidence” and “objective reality” in the same sentence? Do you mean your evidence or our evidence?

Either way it doesn’t matter. You can change the context and distort the meaning as much as you like but you cannot change the perception.

<< The point of this article and several preceding has been to demonstrate that Australia’s mainstream media – Murdoch, Fairfax and the ABC – actively prevent customers from knowing what’s really happening. >>

True however but you miss the point, it’s the same for everyone and is not confined to Australia. It’s just that many are too lazy, disinterested or lack inquiring minds. Others don’t even look because they already know the answer from their ideological compass.

<< By what means does the Government gets it message to the people? >>’

Same as everyone else Alan! What’s your point here?

<< What is an example of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true? >>

Silly point because for the majority of Australian’s who have already developed a negative perspective, such a list would exhaust my post limits.

<< Can you point to any mainstream media article/report which has acknowledged any of these accomplishments fairly? >>

Yep, they all have. Now define “fairly” for us and “accomplishments”.

<< Observers abroad of Australian affairs are continually dismayed that Australia’s incredible success is seldom communicated. >> Who cares?

I’ve no idea who these “observers” are but I spend four months each year travelling, much of that in the EU and I have yet to see CNN, SKY or BBC even refer to Australia.

<< Any other country achieving any of these would celebrate them >>

Assumption close? Being that we don’t see any “achievements” so why would they be “celebrated”? Our majority perception Alan, not yours.

Stay clear of the “grey devil” mosquitoes in Arles.
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 8 June 2013 10:55:16 AM
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individual - Yes & most journalists are University educated.

I very much doubt that one would get a job as a journo without a degree, certainly not in the case of mainstream media including ABC / SBS. Maybe one of the itty-bitty specialist boutique operations might consider an outsider though.

Is the possession of academic qualifications as such necessarily a bad thing ?? Possibly that could be argued if said degree was in feminist studies or something equally weird (mind you it would be a major advantage for a pro-feminist rag). I did an arts / humanities degree in political science (as well as one in biochemistry) & I could just imagine what hairbrained ideas would be aired if most of the humanities students I encountered got loose in a media organization. Even the professors & lecturers were right out of their trees.
Posted by praxidice, Saturday, 8 June 2013 11:01:12 AM
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Alan Austin..."One big advantage of the alternative online media is that we can reference other sources to bolster our claims" The problem with the plethora of blogs and alternative on-line news and opinion sites is each are only seen by relatively few people compared to mainstream TV and Newspapers, therefore it is immensely difficult to create a 'groundswell' of opinion in favour of change..
Praxidice: Are you suggesting that all homosexual males and females are more or less identical in their thoughts and actions? Do you think all heterosexual males and females are equally similar? If not, why not?
Posted by ybgirp, Saturday, 8 June 2013 11:03:50 AM
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Labor has spent over $200m of taxpayers' money on political advertising so they no longer need the ABC as head cheerleaders. The ABC along with the most economically incompetent government in decades should be ditched
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 8 June 2013 11:41:40 AM
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Funding of the ABC has one remaining benefit, as I cant tolerate the inane commercials from other TV and radio outlets with the advertised program wedged into some small segments during the program period. I KNOW THE ABC HAS PROMOS but there is not the quantity of insane, inane commercials as regurgitated on the other audio/visual media.

On the "biased" accusation I can only comment that I have over 50 years being a swinging voter, concentrating on understanding issues and abilities of the candidates, I am really becoming infuriated with many ABC commentators and their programs for the gross inequity eg the loading with topic bias supporting parrots, and the repetition of the inevitable little "sayings" put out by politicians/spin doctors, and the commentators passing off their OWN /? ABC OPINIONS as NEWS/INFORMATION.

IT MAKES IT VERY HARD WORK TO UNDERSTAND THE REAL ISSUE TO MAKE A THOUGHTFUL DECISION. I dont want their opinion pushed onto me, I want the real unbiased information so I can make my decision! It really is time consuming to hit the web and dig out background info that isnt equally, heavy duty garbage.

So I can only judge the ABC and I am now NOT such AN ABC SUPPORTER, which breaks a habit of a lifetime.
Posted by nannabev, Saturday, 8 June 2013 12:32:22 PM
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A democracy requires its citizens to make informed
choices. If citizens or their representatives are
denied access to the information they need to make
these choices, or if they are given false or
misleading information, the democratic process becomes
a sham. It is therefore important that the media
not distort facts and publish only what they consider
newsworthy or have a specific political agenda and
bias. Under such circumstances the people cannot use
their rights in a meaningful way.

The ABC is definitely not perfect - but it is better
than most of what's currently available.
It would be a shame to lose it.
Posted by Lexi, Saturday, 8 June 2013 2:03:47 PM
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Alan I guess compared to where you are, Oz could almost seem OK. However I suggest you ask Ford how good Oz is. You do know they have given up on Oz don't you, or are you too far away to know? Or perhaps some of the mining ventures not being started, due to our blow out in costs.

Hell you could even ask some of the miners being put off, as their employers can no longer make mining work in Oz, & shut their mines.

Lexi sweet you say of the ABC "It would be a shame to lose it".

Sorry but the shame I feel is that others around the world may hear our ABCs rampant left propaganda, & believe we are too dumb to see through it. Thank god only a few, only a few.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 8 June 2013 5:28:33 PM
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Hello again,

Thanks for this conversation.

@individual, re figures on journalists with non-academic background:

The Murdoch phenomenon of employing writers to fabricate news stories is recent. If Praxidice is right and most journos today have degrees, this hasn’t improved quality.

But why would it?

@Lexi, re “were these to go we would all be the poorer.”

They wouldn’t necessarily go, Lexi. Just funded by media owners, not the taxpayer.

@Spindoc, re “Do you mean your evidence or our evidence?”

It’s possible to show many media assertions are false by accessing verifiable objective data. In fact, it’s easy.

For example, an academic [highly educated] in The Australian this week claims “And until Labor's growth blockers are well and truly gone, an enduring return to the fiscal strength of the Howard years will remain a dream.”

Then we simply look at data from independent authorities here:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-growth-rate

We see clearly that growth through the Howard years was ordinary – about average in the OECD – but during the Labor years excellent – almost best in the world!

Most economists rely on objective data. Economists paid by the global criminal Murdoch media organisation just make sh#t up. Not hard to prove.

Re “it’s the same for everyone and is not confined to Australia.”

It is substantially worse in English-speaking countries, Spindoc, and particularly Australia. That’s based on tribunal findings as well as less formal surveys.

One other nation with an equivalent problem is North Korea:

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=27274#.UbLdtNhGacc

Re: “By what means does the Government gets it message to the people? Same as everyone else Alan! What’s your point here?”

Simply that Australians, like North Koreans, get their news filtered by agencies that block important items of information and insert other items which are false.

Refer here:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14806

Re, “Silly point … such a list would exhaust my post limits.”

I offered three examples. 143 words. Can you find three examples supporting your claim, Spindoc?

Re, “Yep, they all have. Now define “fairly” for us and “accomplishments”.

Three accomplishments were offered, numbered 1 to 3, above. Would you like more?

Thanks. Back Monday.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 8 June 2013 6:03:12 PM
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ybgirp - Are you suggesting that all homosexual males and females are more or less identical in their thoughts and actions? Do you think all heterosexual males and females are equally similar? If not, why not?

I believe I've already covered this in detail elsewhere however ... No I most certainly don't, I've had a number of mutually satisfactory business relationships with homosexual males although they were in a previous lifetime. During the same period I encountered a number of lesbians and without exception they could only be described as impossibly evil bitches with no redeeming features whatever. For various reasons (business, location, lifestyle etc) I have rarely had any contact with queers for years. One male I struck in whats best described as a charitable area takes the cake for the most malicious male I've ever met, but then an AC-DC couple who occasionally turn up in a social circle have yet to rock any boats. There are two lesbian couples who live in my broader community, only one of which is ever seen. They don't have much in common with other residents however. Considering the number of 'nice' vs 'nasty', queers generally, and lesbians infinitely more so, have convinced me I don't need to know any of their ilk. If push came to shove, I'd possibly do business a male homosexual providing they play by my rules, but there is no way known I'd go within cooee of any lesbian.

My experiences are exactly that. Others are fully entitled to their own beliefs & opinions as I am to mine. My point is the wholly unsatisfactory experiences well outweigh the few favourable ones, consequently Queers Anonymous need not ask me for support .. period.
Posted by praxidice, Saturday, 8 June 2013 6:47:45 PM
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Hi Alan,

I had some difficulty meeting your criteria for three “perception shapers”. I guess you will just have to pick your favorites from this list.

Have a nice weekend, hope to hear from you Monday.

Grocery watch
Fuel watch
Watering down of border protection laws
Boat people living in Hotels
Climate Change Citizens assembly
BER
Pink Batts
$900 cheques
Live cattle trade to Indonesia
East Timor solution
Illegal Malaysia solution
Knifing a first term PM
20/20 Summit
Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme
Carbon Tax
Cash for clunkers
Solar panel rebate
Green Loan scheme
Green car scheme
GP super clinics
Child care centers
Trade Centers in schools
Kevin Rudd being able to dole out $8bn in foreign aid annually
Computers for every school child
Indigenous health
Indigenous intervention
Health rebate
Super Profits resource tax
Mineral Rent Resource Tax
Proposed Hospital Funding overhaul
Set top boxes for pensioners
Saying Sorry
Murdoch Press Media review
Giving Holden a bailout and a week later Holden workers get a 22% pay increase
Abolishment of the ABCC
Australian Television Network tender
NBN - $60bn and counting
$300bn national debt
Borrowing $112m per day
Budget surplus smoke & mirrors
Wayne Swan
Making KRudd the Foreign Minister if he is so bad
Starting the Australia day riot
Lying on the 4 corners interview
NBN fiasco
Asbestos cowboys
Unfunded Gonski
Blocking FOI requests on “Timmy’s com car transgressions.
457 visa diversion
Misogyny diversion
Divisive social policies
Unfunded NDIS
Asylum Seeker deaths in transit
Freedom of speech legislation
Thomson/Williamson HSU Affair
Eddy Obeid affair
Wilson/Gillard AWU affair
Trade Union feather bedding
Lying/Cheating/Back flipping
Posted by spindoc, Sunday, 9 June 2013 8:33:15 AM
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A score(s) update: Spindoc 60, Alan Austin nil
Alan Austin to kick off after an own-goal
Posted by SPQR, Sunday, 9 June 2013 9:12:16 AM
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SPQR,
You heartless sod, trying to spoil Alan's world with reality. You won't win though, he's got a degree which entitles him to be out of touch & try to induce others, especially the young & vulnerable to become out of touch also. I can handle that if he can arrange for me not to contribute to keeping them.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 9 June 2013 9:25:21 AM
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spindoc

All of your points against the red-headed witch, the dying duck & the KRudd are valid, however the cost of the Queensland health department payroll debacle has probably already matched or even exceeded the total federal stuffup list. Whilst it has its roots in the utter ineptitude of the Blighters, particularly Minister for Monumental Stuffups Robertson, General Disaster hasn't exactly covered himself with glory as far as a solution is concerned. Why the culprits haven't been prosecuted is another question, surely its unreasonable to allow parliamentary privilege to extend as far as total indemnity for the level of ineptitude to which we've been subjected.
Posted by praxidice, Sunday, 9 June 2013 9:36:25 AM
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Yes, Praxidice, I understand that, however blanket assertions that are obviously silly undermine your other arguments. You frequently make good sense, however, when you imply that all same-sex-oriented people are the same... bad, then I begin to lose interest in your other opinions, which are based on experience - so are mine - that is normal. More to the point, how do you know if someone is 'queer'? Most gays slip easily under the radar and no one knows or even suspects their orientation unless they advertise it. It's my experience that I have little in common with most people - male, female, gay or sad. But I'm not going to generalise that all humans are worthless, because that is patently ridiculous
Posted by ybgirp, Sunday, 9 June 2013 9:43:53 AM
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ybgirp

Everyone on this planet is, or at least should be, free to decide exactly with whom they wish to associate. For reasons I've described that make perfect sense to me, I choose not to go out of my way to associate with queers. As far as I'm aware, I've yet to fail to recognize a queer although there is always the possibility a particularly discreet one could slip by. Given the prevailing 'political correctness' & attendant 'coming out', I believe thats a very long shot. The ones I dealt with in business invariably put their cards on the table right at the start, and this helped their case immeasurably. I recall one particular individual who was so high profile in his industry (entertainment / hospitality) that I seriously doubt anyone in Australia with any involvement in the industry wouldn't know him, nevertheless he went to great lengths to let me know exactly where he stood. I appreciated that & it clearly went along way toward establishing the trust necessary for mutually rewarding business dealings. I've long since ceased to have any interest in that area, consequently I don't deal with the many totally honorable queers involved therein.

The slimeball queer I mentioned would definitely convince even the most fanatic homosexual supporter to re-think their position, likewise the vast majority of the lesbians I've encountered. It may well be that these individuals were not typical of their kind & no doubt there are plenty of 'undesirable' straights out there, however given that my present situation (small close-knit community with many common interests) isn't in any way conducive to either homosexuals or slimeball straights, its unlikely that I'll have much need to concern myself with what either mob want or don't want. It should, nevertheless, be obvious why I won't go out of my way to support the homosexual fraternity in general ... individual situations will be assessed on their merit.
Posted by praxidice, Sunday, 9 June 2013 10:13:55 AM
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Praxi/ybgirp, you’re OT and diverting the thread. You need to leave space for Alan to respond.

The problem Alan has created for himself is that he remains insistent that the cause of all this negativity is the media. By implication he is suggesting that Australians are not capable of making our own decisions and are driven by the media.

I think the majority of Australian’s are well equipped to draw their own conclusions in spite of a much diversified range of media opinion. I think Australians have done just that, made up their minds.

In the end it might not even be about perceptions, it might just be that some have no defense filters at all.

I cite this comment made by Alan earlier because it’s interesting.

<< We see clearly that growth through the Howard years was ordinary – about average in the OECD – but during the Labor years excellent – almost best in the world! >>

These “ordinary Howard years” they paid off $94 Bn in ALP debt, ran surpluses for ten years, put $22 Bn in the bank and $40 Bn in the future fund?

Conversely, during these “excellent ALP years” they funded their policies by spending the $22 Bn left them in the bank, mortgaging our children’s future by massive borrowing and never delivering a surplus. It’s truly amazing what you can do with $300 Bn of borrowed money?

What we can read into his unsubstantiated response, is that if Alan were to respond to each of the listed issues, he would find each a positive achievement but fail to substantiate that.

The reason for this would be because he has no defensive filters to protect him from nonsense. Just an ideological framework within which today’s political reality does not fit.
Posted by spindoc, Sunday, 9 June 2013 2:18:03 PM
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spindoc

I don't doubt that Howard & Co were infinitely more capable money-managers than KRudd / Gillard, however I have the gravest of misgivings about the prospect of a RAbbott / Hockey event. The extent of the present financial poo, unstable international situation, declining revenues & general dissatisfaction with RAbbott himself don't augur well for a federal LNP event. The Queensland LNP have experienced the quickest & most dramatic fall from grace of any government in living memory & its highly likely a federal equivalent would prove to be more of the same.
Posted by praxidice, Sunday, 9 June 2013 9:06:48 PM
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Hi Praxi,

Sorry to mention this but your red socks are showing.

You are perfectly entitled to have your concerns over Abbott and the Liberals but don’t base that on something that is clearly untrue.

<< The Queensland LNP have experienced the quickest & most dramatic fall from grace of any government in living memory & its highly likely a federal equivalent would prove to be more of the same.>>

Since we Queenslanders have reduced the ALP to seven seats we intend keeping it that way, in fact we will also do the same to the federal members.

I have no idea where you got this statement from but perhaps you can point us to something?
Posted by spindoc, Monday, 10 June 2013 11:28:20 AM
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Praxi,

“LABOR'S efforts (and Praxi’s) to portray Tony Abbott as a Campbell Newman-style leader who would oversee a "slash and burn" government have been dealt a severe blow with the latest Newspoll revealing support for the Queensland Premier has rebounded.

The Newspoll, conducted exclusively for The Weekend Australian, shows voter support for Queensland's Liberal National Party government has recovered, now equaling the levels Mr. Newman enjoyed a year ago, when the party posted its landslide election victory.

The LNP commands a primary vote of 49 per cent, up seven percentage points since the previous quarterly Newspoll survey. Labor, which was decimated at last year's state election and stripped down to just seven seats in the 89-seat parliament, is languishing on 27 per cent, down four points. When preferences are factored in, the LNP has 62 per cent of the two-party-preferred vote, compared to 38 per cent for Labor”.

From: The Australian March 30, 2013 12:00AM

Time to fess up Praxi?
Posted by spindoc, Monday, 10 June 2013 11:50:56 AM
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praxidice are you suggesting that the probability of deep financial problems ahead is a reason to keep Labor in office? Surely not.

Meanwhile I doubt Queenslanders can be too upset with the LNP, when the last poll showed they only a single Labor member would be returned at the federal election. Doesn't really gel to me.

I do find it interesting that it is Rudd, the worst of them, that would be currently returned. I guess the ABCs heavy support is not doing them much good.

Perhaps we are at the end of the useful life of a few institutions, with the ABC & the Labor party leading the race to uselessness. Only time will tell.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 10 June 2013 1:34:04 PM
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Good morning all,

Thanks for this further input.

@Hasbeen, re: “compared to where you are, Oz could almost seem OK.”

Oz looks fantastic from anywhere, anytime. The question was posed earlier: has there been a better-managed economy than Australia 2009-2013? Suggestions, H?

Re: “You do know they [Ford] have given up on Oz don't you”

Bolstering the case of this article again, H. Have you read what Ford actually said?

http://www.ford.com.au/about/newsroom-result?article=1249024395989

Or are you still swallowing the lies of the criminal Murdoch empire?

@Spindoc, re: “pick your favorites from this list.”

This also bolters the article, Spindoc.

Remember, it endeavoured to demonstrate that Australia’s media – Murdoch, Fairfax and the ABC – act in lock-step to prevent customers knowing what’s really happening.

Evidence was offered from Press Council findings and elsewhere. You responded, “Australians have been exposed to a great deal of spin from our current government”

Querying this, you were asked: “What is an example of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true?”

Your list provides none. In fact, the opposite. Many of those are false allegations the media has concocted regarding the Government.

For example, ‘pink batts’. Now comprehensively shown to be a classic example of the media concealing the truth.

See here: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/04/24/the-csiro-gets-hip-to-debunking-media-hysteria/

You include “Freedom of speech legislation”. Same problem, Spindoc. Another area of fabrication by the media, not by the Government. Refer here:

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14635

Re: “[Alan] is suggesting that Australians are not capable of making our own decisions and are driven by the media.”

Almost correct, Spindoc. Australians are perfectly capable of making sound decisions based on information received. They are currently being actively prevented from accessing accurate information. As in North Korea.

Three areas were nominated: (1) lowest rate of ministerial resignations in the Westminster world, (2) world’s best economy, and (3) foreign affairs quadfecta.

We have now added (4) Ford’s investment in Australia and (5) CSIRO’s pink batts research.

To bolster your position, Spindoc, we need examples of the Gillard Government presentating untruthful assertions. You can have an extension.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Monday, 10 June 2013 4:41:41 PM
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You are a lib plant aren't you Alan.

Your drastically over the top gilding Labor, & suggesting the ABC is not left of Khrushchev must be designed to put people off our lying left.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 10 June 2013 5:33:19 PM
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Dear Alan,

Welcome back. I note you still depend upon dated post modernist deconstruction as a means of defending your assertions. The list I provided was not intended as statements of fact, they were intended to point out that these issues you raised are the “perception” issues that you assert have been distorted by the media, they are important to the Australian people in spite of the media and not because of it.

In the end it doesn’t matter how you defend these issues because you don’t vote in Australia, we do.

If you wish to defend the government on the perceptions of these issues to the public, feel free. We don’t see them as negotiable and we are certainly not swayed by external non resident commentators who seek to pontificate to Australians that our sentiments are wrong.

Your problem is that having raised these issues, you fail to identify with the 75% of Australians who do not share your perceptions. That is your problem and no amount of pointing the finger over the high moral ramparts will make one iota of difference.

I mentioned earlier that some people have no defense mechanism against ideological bulltish, you put yourself in that frame, not us.

I personally relish the defense you offer, because Australians are much smarter than you imagine. We have made up our minds, we will not be swayed by pseudo- intellectuals, and are happy that you continue your journey of folly, the pursuit of that which is contrary to self interest.

The more you pontificate, the deeper the poo you get yourself into. It is this mantra that has driven our government into the garbage can and you are assisting, many thanks.

If you wish to have a voice in our democracy all you have to do is return and vote, just like the rest of us.

Sniping from behind the sandbags is un-Australian; you are pulling the pin on the hand grenade and throwing the pin, then you have the audacity to blame the media for telling you that you just blew your own legs off.
Posted by spindoc, Monday, 10 June 2013 5:46:26 PM
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Hello again,

Intriguing discussion.

@SPQR, thanks for joining us. Would you like to have a shot at the outstanding questions. There are six which appear to have stumped the panel:

1. [@Runner] Is there a specific claim in the article that you think is unfair or unsupported?. With links to evidence supporting your counter-assertion where available.

2. [@Hasbeen] Can you point to examples of mainstream media reportage in recent times which reflect acceptance of lies and economic illiteracy from political parties other than the Liberal and National parties?

3. [@LEGO and Aspley] When was the last time you heard bias towards Labor or the Greens from ABC News or Current Affairs? An example?

4. [@ Spindoc] Examples of something the Australian Government has spun to the people in the last year or so – which is not true?

5. Can you point to any mainstream media report which has acknowledged fairly any of these accomplishments of the Gillard Government: (1) the lowest rate of ministerial resignations in the Westminster world since 1820, (2) world’s best economy ever, and (3) substantial foreign affairs successes followed by four-fold international recognition?

6. [@Hasbeen again] Where and when has there ever been a better-managed economy than Australia 2009-2013?

Thanks, SP.

@praxidice, re “I don't doubt that Howard & Co were infinitely more capable money-managers than KRudd/Gillard”

Really? Based on what? Any supporting data?

Agree with most of your other observations though, Praxi.

@Hasbeen, re “Your drastically over the top gilding Labor”

Can you see how this confirms the validity of the article's argument, H?

Nothing ‘gilding’ has been asserted anywhere about Labor. There have been straightforward factual observations and some probing questions. But because there has been an absence of blind condemnation of your Government, it appears to you as ‘gilding’.

Can you see how it looks as though you have been profoundly influenced by the pervasive mainstream media, Hasbeen?

@Spindoc, re “I note you still depend upon dated post modernist deconstruction”

And I note that I have answered your questions but you have not answered mine.

A further extension, Spindoc? No problem.

Cheers,
Posted by Alan Austin, Monday, 10 June 2013 9:29:10 PM
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Alan

u cherry pick a few headlines to confirm your arguement. A far stronger test of ABC bias is to ask conservatives or liberals whether they would like the taxpayer saved the wasted money to push the Green agenda, the homosexual agenda and the multi cultural agenda. I as a conservative and most I know would not shed one tear if they were disposed of. Many, many liberals/leftist would lose their voice and probably protest violently on the streets if Abbott was to do the honourable thing and get rid of the ABC. You are in complete denial.
Posted by runner, Monday, 10 June 2013 9:55:01 PM
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Dear Alan,

You’re going round in circles.

That << ABC news and current affairs present the same pro-Coalition coverage of national affairs as the corporate news media >>.

This is an opinion forum so we can all express our own. Even If I were to accept your proposition that the ABC now stands accused of being pro-coalition it makes no difference whatsoever.

As consumers of the media’s products it is still “buyer beware”. Every consumer can take away whatever they choose to believe. You chose to believe something completely different to me. I do get frustrated that all the media outlets fall far short of professional news and current affairs reporting.

That said, I also accept that the days of Fleet Street style reporting are long gone. In today’s world we mostly we have opinion peddling of syndicated events, no use complaining about it as there is little we can do to change it.

For many there is still an expectation that we are getting something other than just opinion. This is where our own filters come into play. If we look at the broadest spectrum of available N&CA, even embracing international outlets, we see a staggering range of coverage of the same item.

It’s the consumer’s responsibility to sort out what we chose to believe because it is predominantly opinion. If we are pragmatic, objective, inquisitive and skeptical, we can normally get a good handle on what is going on.

If on the other hand we refuse to accept the reality that it is mostly opinion, need something that fits only our framework of perception and only have an ideological compass against which to test what we absorb, then like you, there will be accusations of bias and prejudice, which is of course true so just accept it and work with it.

By trying to drill down into every detail, comment or opinion, you are going in the wrong direction. You need to work upwards towards the bigger picture rather than down into ever more complex content.

I hope you find the reality you’re looking for
Posted by spindoc, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 10:55:33 AM
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I think what AA is trying to say is that any media that does not continually sing Labor's praises and provide commentary approved by Labor is a liberal collaborator, and should be closed down.

The only media organisations that get his tick of approval are a few greenie blogs that print polemic opinion pieces against the coalition and of course his own blog.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 11:34:42 AM
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