JON J...

I couldn't care less what you or any of your atheists mates believe or not believe ? In your original thread you sanctimoniously castigate the entire Catholic Church, while taking the superior (albeit intellectual) high ground accusing the Church of everything !

What's YOUR problem with them ? What have they done to you ? Chuck you out ah ? You 'bleat on' that I'm patronising anyone who receives some benefit from the Church ? I say good on 'em. Don't you like the idea that Catholics are receiving some comfort and a bit of happiness ? Well that's tough pal ! Them's the breaks !

I believe in absolutely nothing, you're born, you live, you die. I'm comfortable with that proposal. That's me, so what ? What I'm NOT comfortable with, is some little man, acting as the supreme fount of all knowledge, when in reality, he knows squat ! Do the Catholic Church have problems ? You bet, so do many other large organisations.

I wouldn't care a toss, if you'd said that God and all that stuff, is rubbish - just science fiction. I've no problem with that.

However, there are many other 'good' people out there who really enjoy and receive a lot of goodness from their Church and from their religious beliefs within Catholicism. Without some 'person' belittling, abusing, and engaging in all manner of disparaging, deprecatory language, calculated to insult and degrade, these people's faith, and those who are chosen to lead that faith.

And I reckon it's a real low act for some 'person' to bounce into the equation spruiking insults !

There's something 'about' you my friend. Something weird, that you seem to have this almost narcissistic need to so comprehensively denigrate the largest Church within the Christian system ?

Seems that you, JON J. Vs The Catholic Church, an individual who's apparently bereft of any and all liberality of other people's beliefs and faiths ? Odd really. and I don't mean the Church ?

@o sung wu: "What I'm NOT comfortable with, is some little man, acting as the supreme fount of all knowledge, when in reality, he knows squat!"

You've just given an absolutely spot-on perfect description of the Pope.

"...some 'person' belittling, abusing, and engaging in all manner of disparaging, deprecatory language, calculated to insult and degrade, these people's faith, and those who are chosen to lead that faith."

Yes, stupid beliefs are stupid. Religious beliefs are demonstrably so. The Catholic faith is no more rational than the belief that Spotty the Galactic Worm is about to start snacking on Jupiter, or that North Korea is about to launch a missile attack on Canberra. Do you really want to argue that people should be allowed to believe any nonsense they like, and to act as if those beliefs are true?

"And I reckon it's a real low act for some 'person' to bounce into the equation spruiking insults !"

What if I were pointing out the logical consequences of ALP or Liberal doctrine, or Communism, or fascism? Would you be equally upset? And yet those flawed beliefs have also given people a great deal of comfort in the past. Why should a religion be immune to criticism when political beliefs are not?

If you want to shut down all criticism of irrational beliefs you are going to have to shut down this whole site, along with many others. If you only want to shut down criticism of the Catholic Church you will have to explain why. Your claim to be a wholehearted atheist is sounding a little shrill.

Yeah, that's me JON J...just a 'shrill' defender of the faith !

When I joined the coppers way back in the late sixties, I was first stationed at Darlinghurst. One of the heavies there was a bloke named
Frank 'Bumper' Farrell, an Inspector at the time, (most likely a misguided Catholic too ?) - a man though feared by the average probationary constable, was well respected nevertheless ?

One of the many little gems of wisdom he chose to share with me as a new bloke. '...never argue with a mug...' ?

Good afternoon to you JON J.

Was that the "Brown Paper bag" NSW inspector !!

Hi there KIPP...

No it wasn't , I can only gather from your remarks, you dislike coppers, that's fine, I can live with that. Actually, Frank Farrell was a top Rugby League player, I've forgotten his team though. He was in the front row, hence he had the most pronounced cauliflower ears one would every hope to see.

He was a 'bit of a lad' in his time. One tough ol' time copper was Frank 'Bumper' Farrall !

The corrupt 'bloke' you're referring to, was 'Chook' Fowler A/OIC of Detectives at the Cross at the time. Caused a real 'stench' amongst all the good detectives after those revelations. In fact KIPP, those of us who still had kiddies at school, their mate's would say to them,'...my Dad says your Dad's a crook and bad ? Does wonders for a stable family life, I can tell you.

Hi sung wu. Thank you for your common sense and democratic remarks about a person's right to believe , even where you do not ascribe to those beliefs.

It is a pity that rabid 'atheists' – you are probably right – lapsed 'micks' in many cases,- can't help but froth at the mouth when someone espouses about religion, especially Christianity and more particularly of the Catholic variety. There are intelligent atheists around that one can have an intelligent debate with, but DDs and JJs hardly fit that picture from what I have seen of their contributions over time. They tend to be totalitarian in nature, although they don't realise it, as are zealots of any ideology!

I am a Catholic and I do respect Pope Benedict for the man he is and for the part he has played as Pope, a gentle humble man, a learned theologian, .who what ever his shortcomings in management ability has tried to bring the message of Christ, of peace and justice, goodwill, of the forgiveness of God to all men. I am not perturbed over the scribblings of journalists like Yallop (and yes I have read some of his works) . Likewise I had respect for JP2, a man of tremendous character and courage, and one who tried to give leadership to very disparate lot that call themselves 'Catholic' – including some (too many) of the clergy who fail(ed) dismally to live up to their vows whether because of the heinous crime of paedophilia or other forms of corruption. Unfortunately, as I have remarked before, human frailty and ignorance has been displayed right through human history even with the Apostles of Jesus himself. We see this intellectual arrogance and yes even hatred, it in these Forum Debates by those who bitterly use ad hominem arguments to mock and vilify those who have a different world view or belief than their own