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The Forum > Article Comments > Look to Peter, not CEOs, to understand the papacy > Comments

Look to Peter, not CEOs, to understand the papacy : Comments

By Joseph Wakim, published 15/2/2013

The first Vicar of Rome, Peter the Apostle, provides a good template for his successors - fallible and humble.

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Ah yes, the greatest story ever told!
If we believe it, then we believe that a mere humble fisherman, was its first appointed leader, and maybe his Daughter was its second.
That humble folk met in one another's houses, to break bread in the manner of friends and close associates.
That they spent not as much as a single thin dime on edifices, to glorify God or Rome!
Such money as they came by, was almost immediately redistributed to help the poor and less well off, or the sick and disabled!
They walked, like any common man or woman among the people and were of the people!
There was no MAN-MADE confessional or celibacy!
And they had the mark of God, the holy spirit, on them, in as much as, they were able to spontaneously speak in many other tongues, and or heal the sick and dying, just by laying their hands on them!?
Not very much of that sort of thing happening in any of today's churches?
Could it be the Holy Ghost, has given up, and stormed off in sheer disgust, at the malevolent monster a highly commercialised, elitist, tax and responsibility avoiding, paedophile riddled, politicised church has become.
To the point where even a former Nazi youth member, could become its crowned, autocratic, sanctimonious, cannot err head!
Were Jesus here to day, walking among us, would he pick up the whip of legend, and storm once again through his Father's many mansions, whipping out all those that did not truly belong there or represent/do his Father's work or bidding?
And or, set the record straight on what he did or didn't say, and or the many re-interpretations or new meanings, given to the words of a plain speaking man, who spoke with absolute candour, to a population largely illiterate!
Indeed, he went out of his way, with many analogies, to ensure his words or stories, couldn't be reinvented or reinterpreted, for nefarious purposes!
In no way would such a man speak in riddles, that then had to be reinterpreted by the educated elite or power hungry!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 15 February 2013 12:27:43 PM
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If the papacy is made in heaven how come some of them, eg John XII, Alexander VI, came straight from hell. The early Church knew nothing of a papacy as we know it. Our version is the result of a history of development and is based on imperialistic models.
Posted by Francis, Friday, 15 February 2013 1:01:52 PM
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Many people who advocate the kind of old-time religion promoted by this petrine clown argue that without such a "God" people will believe almost anything, and that everything will be permitted.

It seems to me that the reverse is actually the case.
Which is to say that anyone who accepts this petrine nonsense and the fanciful nonsense promoted on the Wednesday essay on the pope, can and will believe almost any and every kind of absurd nonsense.
Furthermore the historical record shows in unequivocal terms that everything was always permitted, and what is more, justified in the name of this fanciful tribalistic "god".

Such people could do with a heavy dose of Penetrine/Penetrene which is very good for removing rust and other encrusted gunk.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Friday, 15 February 2013 2:41:48 PM
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Fair enough, this article is rather ill-conceived (and rather poorly executed), and the author has opened up the proverbial 'bag of worms' for all the naysayers to get stuck in with their knives flashing and their teeth bared, but really, we've heard all the pokes and jibes before, haven't we?

You don't believe, so you have to pour scorn on all those poor (and in your view, deluded) wretches who aren't so certain that 'this is all there is', who take guidance from those texts you deride as mere fabrication, and use their 'faith' as a motivation to lead a good life and to embody tolerance and goodwill towards others. Yeh, they're a really good 'soft target', just begging for any cheap shot you can level. Mustn't let them down, eh?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was - 'big bang'. Terrific. And, whiz, bang, wha-da-ya-know, flash of light, and there was LIFE, and it was good! Ripper, nature arrives, and with it the supreme, all-knowing pinnacle of (natural) Creation - Man. And Man unraveled the mystery of Everything, which was - I am the alpha and the omega, cripes I'm good! (He was an Aussie of course.) And off he goes to K-Mart to claim his 'booty', with nary a care in the world - clever fellow. And that's all there is, so let's have a party! (TBC>)
Posted by Saltpetre, Saturday, 16 February 2013 12:50:56 PM
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(Cont'd):

God may not be great, may not even exist - except as a construction of Man to help solve the age-old question, "Why am I here?" There is no 'proof' of God - just some ripping yarns whipped up to try and 'explain' a whole lot of 'inexplicable' events, when our Aussie really was just a dunce. And since then God has been used for good (sometimes), and for ill (maybe a lot more times), but eventually, through all the trials, came 'civilisation'. Hold on! Nazis, Pol Pot, Taliban, Maoists, .. is God's work never to be done? Nah, we should just scrap God, and all will be better, won't it? So, let's toss a coin - Heads=God, Tails=blank; and 'Blank' Wins, so go ahead and beat the crap out of one another for as long as - ?

Who would you trust more, a Christian with a bible, or a Jihadist with an AK47? Coin toss?

Benedict XV1 is a man, and may not have been a good choice, or the 'right' choice for Il Papa, but humans can't get it right all of the time. However, John Paul II was a true icon - if ever 'Man' held the 'light' in his inner being, it was this man. Show me a better, if you can.

A billion and more who bid you no ill. Can you not reciprocate, or at least Live and Let Live? (Would it really harm you to do so?)
Posted by Saltpetre, Saturday, 16 February 2013 12:51:03 PM
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Saltpetre you are doping exactly the same as we of the non believing brigade "lets bag them" they are all sinfull, show no compassion,think only of themselves etc. From an outsiders view of the Pope I see an ordinary man dressed expensively and his Cardinals likewise, living in a life of luxury that the poor people of his domain will never ever have the pleasure to live likewise. Jesus Christ was a man who dressed poorly and was of the poor people, there was no pomp and ceremony such as the Catholic Church now shows at every opportunity.
All so called Christian churches now and in the past have always been a warmongering group, as example the leaders Bush, Blair, Howard, Downer, Rudd.,Obama etc are all of this faith and all hold the bible in one hand and a gun in the other, these people create wars, so to your question which would I prefer, the Taliban (religion) or a Bible basher (religion) it is neither, give me a good old Atheist any day, at least we do not try to convert people at every opportunity to join them to the ways of the Bible .
Posted by Ojnab, Saturday, 16 February 2013 1:34:01 PM
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