Hi, oh sung wu,

I joined 3RAR in roughly Mar/Apr '72 when they'd just returned from Vietnam. The C.O.; Peter Scott was then transferred and the "tyrannical megalomaniac" took over. You couldn't have been in 3RAR then; he was hated; at least by the grunts.

I greatly admired and respected my Sgt; Brian Payne, who ended his Army career as RSM of the entire Army. There was no real socialising or "mateship" at that time; we just wanted to get out of there, and the minute Whitlam was elected, we did, despite the inducements to finish our "time". Loved your remark re the M60!

Give me a call if you wish.
Allan Thomas. 0410747691

Bruce Haig,

why don't you move on from the 60's. It's 50 years ago.

The big defence issue facing Australians now is whether to support Israel in it's proposed war against Iran and whether we should remain neutral in a Palestinian war on the illegal Israeli settlers.

If you think neither possible check out the current status and probable intent of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all the other mid eastern nations that abhor the illegal Israeli land theft.
Also check out the current positions of Australia (Foreign Minister), Britian, France, Russia and China.

Your opinion on those topic's might actually do some good.

National service commenced in 1951, we as conscripts were being trained to kill, it must be remembered the Cold War was on between Russia and America, also the Korean War was waiting in the wings, Robert Menzies was having all 18 year olds trained to be on the ready for any war that may eventuate at this time, keep in mind WW11 had just ended a few years earlier and Menzies was jittery, we as conscripts were always told we were there to defend the country in war.
We unlike the lottery system which eventuated later due to the then Vietnam war were still being trained as cannon fodder, regardless of any lottery system that came about later, we were not there for fun, I feel the writer should have included all conscripts from 1951 to 1972.. I do agree the lottery system was wrong at that time.
I feel National Service did not make me a better or worse person contrary to what a lot of people think it should, resurrecting it again now to train all the present day hoons, a prison sentence was always hung over our heads if we did not do as we were told by the Government, and we never queried this issue at all, present day 18 year olds would query the rights and wrongs of what we went into, that is National Service, like little lambs to be salute red at the whims of Robert Menzies.
I feel disgusted that Harry Windsor was bragging about how many men he had killed in Afghanistan, these people treat Christianity as a joke, to kill someone myself is not something I would brag about whether in war or in my private life, but then again the Windsors have always been war mongering people.

Rattler, I didn't think the pay was all that bad - but then, maybe the rate didn't keep up appropriately between '65 and '71/2? And, are you taking into account that we all had full board, lodging and clobber (excluding civvies) thrown in - and limited opportunity to 'waste' all that filthy lucre on outside entertainments? And had cut-price grog and fags available on base - for those who partook. Not such a bad 'stint' - except for having to do some training, some exercise, and some yes-sir-no-sir, I suppose. (But, I was only coming out of a 'bridging' job as a storeman/packer, after so many non-paid years of education, and barely starting to look for my ultimate career 'niche'. Guess that made a difference to my 'expectations'.)

I was one of the 'lucky' ones, and went to Borneo (Sabah) with the RAE during the Indonesian Confrontation, and not to Vietnam. Luck of the draw. (Had some Core-training comrades who went to V, and didn't come home. Not a good scene.) During my OS stint we lost one Regular in a vehicle accident, and had a few serious injuries in our Nasho ranks, but no deaths, just some near misses. As far as I know, we didn't fire a shot in anger.

Some of my Borneo mates have been on disability, so it's not as one-sided as Bruce Haigh indicates. Not that provisions couldn't always be better, but everything is relative.

In 'basics' a few railed against the 'imposition', some relished the experience, and the majority accepted their lot and made the best of it. NCO's were a bit rough at times, but in everyone's best interests. A grand adventure? Yes for some, but generally just a new and different experience, and no harm done.

Made a few good mates; have a few laughs at our reunions; no scorched earth; no basket cases. We were, we are, and life goes on regardless. (But, those who went to Vietnam deserve the highest accolades and the best possible on-going provisions, irrespective of the efficacy, or otherwise, of that engagement.)

Good evening to you Allan...

God no, I'd finished my engagement before then, as you'd said they just returned from their second tour.

I was there during the first tour under Lt Col Jim Shelton, a bloke as good as you get, in my opinion. We're based at 'the Dat' where the ATF were located.

The only reason I picked up on your thread, you sounded so bitter about your entire two years in the Regiment. You must have had a very miserable time, for which I'm terribly sorry for you. You were in a Rifle Platoon I gather ? As you say your sergeant was a good bloke, there must've been many many more equally as good as your Sgt is/was Allen ?

You'd also appreciate, CO's come and go. Some terrific, others a real pain in the 'rear', but a CO is NOT the Regiment, it's all those in it. Often a CO is a lonely individual, he can never become 'one of the troops'. He must be approachable, through the chain of command, and generally through the door of the Adjutant, but at the same time, he must always remain aloof, and never drop that image, for obvious reasons. Thus, he's sometimes (mistakenly) regarded as a real pain ?

Anyway Allen, I sincerely wish you the best of luck ol' fella - and try to look at the Regiment in a positive way. Nothing wrong with the Army, it's the Politicians that should attract the bulk of your ire !

Many thanks for your mobile, I'll try and ring you one of these days.

That such a discussion is even necessary in this day and age, is a shame. Do we still need to discuss the fact that slavery was an abuse? that hunting and kidnapping Africans from their jungle-villages and chaining them into boats destined to America where half of them died on the way, is an abuse?

Yes, someone really *needed* that number of slaves in order to pick the vast amount of cotton...

Conscription is slavery and there is no worse atrocity. Myself a victim of conscription, having suffered immensely in my country of origin, it was the first thing I checked about Australia, making sure that conscription is illegal here before deciding to immigrate, that my children will never undergo the same.