Well said, yuyutsu. "Conscription is immoral, it is unjust, it is a violation of human rights" (1966 election speech, Arthur Calwell, then leader of the ALP). Having just finished reading a biography of Whitlam covering the period up to 1972 only, I was actually surprised to learn of the completely consistent and virulent opposition of the ALP to both the Vietnam war and to conscription through this period. My 15 year old offspring, however, studies this period in Australian history at school, so she was more aware. As the article states, several referendums on conscription were defeated, but Menzies snuck it through parliament. Given the history, I would go as far as to say that conscription was "unAustralian"' in the sense that it has consistently and over a long historical period been rejected by the Australian people.

Actually, the majority of Australians have usually been opposed to conscription for overseas service, but not necessarily to conscription for home defence.

Conscription for home defence was in force from 1911 until the end of WW2, and then from 1951 to 1959. 'Home defence' was fairly broadly interpreted in WW2 to include the islands to Australia's North.

Conscription was suspended in 1929, mainly for economic reasons, but not abolished.

When conscription for overseas service was introduced in 1964, it was therefore an extension of conscription schemes for home defence which had been a normal part of Australian life for decades.

This part of Australia history has faded from popular memory, but its easy to check. The Australian Encyclopedia and Wikipedia had summaries of varying accuracy.

I'm a little surprised to see how broadly Bruce Haigh has brushed in painting his picture of military conscription in Australia. In saying "Australia twice voted against the introduction of conscription during WWI", he fails to mention that such proposed conscription as was the subject of the 1916 and 1917 conscription plebiscites was for military service OUTSIDE Australia.

It is my understanding that conscription for military service within, or in defence of, Australia has always been, and remained, constitutionally legitimate. Those WW1 conscription plebiscites were not referenda proposing alteration of the Constitution, and were not subject to the provisions of Section 128 with respect to the counting of votes and the 'double majority' requirement made of alteration proposals.

Witness to the historic acceptance within the ALP of the legitimacy of military conscription for Australian defence is perhaps borne by the wording of the Chifley government's proposed 'Social Services' alteration to the Constitution of 1946 that was to become placitum (xxiiiA.) of Section 51. The wording in question was the parenthetical "(but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription)" that formed part of the placitum.

It is perhaps an interesting footnote to the selective national service legislation of 1964 that 20-year-olds were required to register and become subject to the birthdate ballot. http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/viet_app/ That meant that by the time those who were called up had completed their basic, and subsequent corps, training, all within Australia, virtually all NSM would be 21 years old, the then age of majority.

I suspect that the circumvention of any implicit prohibition of conscription for foreign service was intended to be achieved by being able to represent that NSM, having attained their majority, had effectively VOLUNTEERED for service in Malaysia or Viet Nam. With better than a full year of their two-year full time obligation remaining, 21-year-old NSM could be deployed for the relatively standard 12 month posting overseas. They were certainly old enough to have volunteered in their own right.

Upon return there was an entitlement under the War Service Home Loan Scheme awaiting claim.

A few further points and questions if I may. Plerdsus, were you in the Army? What corp? o sung wu, I strongly agree with your point re those who talk about Army life when they've never experienced it, or not at the relevant time or circumstances, i.e.; full time conscription for the Vietnam war. I can't agree that "the C.O. is not the regiment". The arsehole at 3RAR when I was there was a vengeful and nasty prick. His character traits percolated down through the entire battalion. "A fish rots from the head". I didn't do two years in 3RAR, I did 3 months at Puckapunyal, basic training, 3 months at Singleton, infantry training, and 9 months at 3RAR, Woodside, a dump of an old reffo camp. I got out just before Christmas '72 when Whitlam was elected. ojnab, conscription prior to 1964/5 was only part time, 3 months then occasional weekend camps etc. Saltpetre, "full board" rubbish food; you'd be mad to pay for it, "lodging", in an old dump of a reffo camp with the most basic amenities imaginable, "clothing" only initial issue free, we had to purchase all replacements out of our pittance. There was most definitely no cut price grog or cigs in my time. All due respect to you, but you weren't in the infantry ( the hardest yakka). Forrest Gumpp, in 1972 the War Service Loan was as good as useless as the maximum loan was far too small to purchase a decent house. They were offered to we conscripts as an inducement to complete our time but I don't know one person who took it up. Incidentally, second mortgages were not available where WSH held the first mortgage.

Give me a call, o sung wu Cheers all

The pay. Some years ago, Peter Scott, the C.O. of 3RAR before my time, told me that the "brass" were well aware that the pay for the lower ranks was so low that it had become a major issue in the ranks. He told me that the "brass" were attempting to pressure the govt to do something about it. I had reasonable savings when I went in and was penniless when I got out. Indeed, I was in debt as I had to catch up my superannuation contributions as if I'd been on my normal salary while conscripted. I had 12 months to do it and it was a considerable sum. No holiday break for me; I went straight back to work; I had to!
Our "civil liberties". Upon arrival at Puckapunyal, we were told in no uncertain terms we were not to go to our M.P., the press, or any lawyer with any complaint re our treatment in the Army. We were also told that we were not to go to a civilian doctor except in an emergency where we were unable to access an Army doctor. We were told that if we did any of the above, we'd be locked up. I kid you not!

Oh Allen Allen, my friend...

Unfortunately much of what you say is true when it comes to matters of kit, food, access to your own member of parliament, and your own Doctor et al ! I went through Kapooka initially and whether it was because we were ARA I don't know. Discipline though inordinately severe, was at an acceptable level, with little or no real bastardization.

Though, through no fault of my own, I ended up in cells, after I'd received a real 'flogging' in the main street of Wagga one rare Saturday night we're allowed leave. The circumstances were not of my making, but my willingness to 'box on' was ! Thus the Provost's placed me, and one other (my 'corner man') in the 'go slow' for the remainder of the weekend, with our appearance before the RTB Adj. listed for the following Monday morning.

I'm now an old man Allen, and reflecting back to my days in the military, they were good. Who knows, without my initial engagement (six years), I may well have ended up serving a much longer sojourn in the 'go slow', only in Long Bay this time. As it was, I missed the regimentation and uniform so much, I joined the coppers. Spending the rest of my working life with 'em !

Even after spending two years 'wearing blue', I often wonder whether I should've re-engaged for another three, even six years ? The coppers, though a reasonable job, I did miss the individual respect that was always accorded you, when in the Army. The police, there was always a hint of hostility.

Personally, I reckon you should just take the best and most positive lessons and elements the Army taught you. They would've taught you plenty too ? Rather than unnecessarily ruminating upon those negative aspects from your Army days.

Finally, I bid you good luck my friend, it's now time to put the worst aspects of those days, well and truly to bed !