Candide_ but then we all reach our own conclusions using limited intelligence and using limited information.

Graham Y,

Thank you for your clarificationary post of 11.02pm on Sunday 12th - very well put.

Diver Dan,

>"the RC Church would continue to operate effectively as an institution, without a congregation at all."<

What a strange and ridiculous assertion. The Church IS the parishioners, physically and in spirit, and, contrary to some assertions, the Church is not immune from criticism from its parishioners (from both regular Church-goers and a mass of periodically practicing followers - whose strength of belief is in the foundational tenets of the 'living faith'). The Church may have been slow to react in the past, possibly in a mistaken belief that the greater good (of serving the best interests of the congregation as a whole) was of higher priority than exposing the Church to ridicule by exposing a relatively small number of 'transgressors'. This was a gross error in judgement, but, as in all large organisations there will invariably be some black sheep - but this does not necessarily reflect endemic failure or corruption. In medicine, and in banking, there have been occasional transgressors and ineptitude, but we do not condemn the overall 'system' in consequence.

Squeers,

Your focus on 'afterlife' is misdirected - for the intention and the reality of the faith is on appropriate and Christian conduct in this life, encompassing virtue, compassion, empathy and understanding. Thought of 'reward' must be, and IS essentially very much secondary. You may offer a child a reward for keeping their room tidy, but to construe this as 'coercion' is exaggeration and grandstanding - unless you wish to interpret it as such.

>"The rub is that democratic capitalism is unsustainable."<

I, and probably many others, would be greatly interested in your view of how 'a perfect world' would operate?

LATO,

I look out the window and marvel at OUR sun, shared by and nurturing all of humanity and all of life. An inclusive and finite Universe. Humankind is not yet capable of properly and adequately addressing its responsibilities and opportunities, but mere hope of change is not enough - we all have to work at it.

""The faith is based around the life and death of a guy who suffered the most extreme criminal punishment of his day ...""

Posted by GrahamY, Sunday, 12 August 2012 11:20:40 AM

The faith is based around a narrative that is asserted to be about a guy - it may be at least half myth-fiction, or more

Saltpetre:

...It is not sensible to imply the infallibility of the RC Church. Nothing and nobody on earth is indispensable.

You say:
<What a strange and ridiculous assertion> (IE: "the RC Church would continue to operate effectively as an institution, without a congregation at all.");

...Not at all! There is evidence to support my charge. The Archdiocese of Boston is one case in point. Over sixty parishes were closed (as a saving), in an attempt to pay-out victims of sexual abuse by priests, which cost the Archdiocese over a hundred million dollars in compensation payments.

...This example of parish contraction could continue successfully, all the way to the Vatican; the beating heart of the RC “institution”. I think Catholics are misguided to believe the parish and its parishioners are of fundamental importance to the survival of the institution: And Geraldine Doogue is waking-up to the reality.

...Church organisations (including the RC Church), have re-prioritised their agendas into the role of NGO’s, servicing primarily the social service needs of the community with nursing homes and schools for example.

...This subtle shift has gone unheeded by parishioners, who believe that the traditional priority of the Church to offer the service of worship, has maintained its priority in the fundamental structure of the church. Unfortunately the imperative of worship (Financially), is evidenced as a lower priority and receives a proportionate and unsuitable response for the beleaguered parishioner.

Thank you Squeers. I felt such a sense of vindication from your first post.

Doogue's effort was such a disappointment. For one who has such a well nourished public position she seems to be saying that it's too hard for me, it's up to others to do something about the lesser aspects of the Catholic church.

What a pity. It seems she doesn't want to do anything to risk her celebrity status. For one who tries so often to sound intellectual and philosophical there is some chance that she is just not what she believes herself to be. There is not much depth in her heart bleeding bits. The ending is so limp. Above all the Pontius Pilate act.

Perhaps she should take a leaf out of Dietrich Bonhoeffer' book. The Third Reich was full of highly cultured people that knew and lived the good life. It was their values which were wanting. Doogue could do well to think that through before her next celebrity appearance on the ABC's endless feel-good dinner parties.

Chek,
thanks for the endorsement of a "troubled listener". It's so easy to be seduced by eloquence, and I too find her wine-sipping high teas curiously vulgar. Doogue should perhaps consider Walter Benjamin's wise words: "There is no document of culture that is not at the same time a document of barbarism".

Saltpetre,
I agree that ethics can be based on cooperation, rather than carrots and sticks, which have signally failed.
I have no concept of a perfect world, buty a good place to start is patent injustice, which u underwrites our justice system.
I'm not unsympathetic, btw, to the fact that we are "meaning seeking creature".

It was pleasing to see the Pope in the news today, and his butler's testimony to the corruption within the Catholic hierarchy