My dear Poirot

If she were frumpy etc, she would not have made it.

Because she has made it, made it as a TV journalist in the ABC with the clever use of her God given attributes, I expect a lot more from her.

I don't expect the same from Marilyn Monroe in her Hollywood parlour of make-believe glamour and delusions.

Chek

GrahamY,

More of your nonsense (you haven't got back to me on the last response btw).

I haven't damned Doogue's eloquence, but a ;lack of substance.

I haven't said communions are "high teas". I referred to her "wine-sipping high teas" metaphorically, alluding to Doogue's recent series of interviews for compass, which is what I also took Chek to be alluding to.

The history of the Catholic church, in the world, "is" dark indeed.

By "generational shepherding...of paedophile priests" I was alluding to the way priests were merely moved to another parish when their sexual misconduct caught up with them. Have you been living under a rock? I like double entendre and was using "shepherding" in rugby league vernacular. Sorry if that's too sophisticated for you, but don't you have a degree in English Lit?

I have concentrated on what she has actually said. She hasn't said anything tangible!

My tongue-in-cheek suggestion of privatisation was that the church be floated on the share market.

Get your facts straight, mate.

Poirot,
the history of the institution can be summed up in a few disparaging sentences. I've said nothing about theology, however, and I don't deny it has a rich history of devout and sublime adherents.

Of course I don't know individuals' reasons, but I married into a Catholic family and know many, and they are without exception merely institutionalised.

"You are presuming that because you judge it's all empty blather and control, that nothing of any internal value could possibly be derived from it".

I have said and am presuming no such thing. Neither am I motivated by misogyny!

Well, I haven't read most of the foregoing comments...

... but I just wanted to say, what a wonderfully well-written and brutally honest piece of self-inquiry this is. I very much like the characterisation of human beings as "meaning-seeking animals", and this piece is a very good illustration of the profound thoughtfulness and soul-searching that we are capable of in pursuit of this objective. It's the sort of thinking that could well galvanise a revolution in the way the institutional church is run.

It also advances the idea that meaning can be what you make of it from your experiences, whether these accommodate the concept of a God or not.

And I suppose in this vein what I can say is that for me, the “rich armoury of belief, consolation, glimpse of the divine, the whole notion of commitments, of artistry, of abundant life” is eminently possible to achieve in the secular world, just as much as it is for Geraldine in the spiritual. This is why I’m not a Catholic, but equally I can say that it is only my life experience that has led me to this, and that I find it perfectly acceptable that others’ might be different.

So in that sense, I guess that means nothing’s changed! But many thanks for your thoughts Geraldine. As someone who has met and interviewed so many people from so many walks of life, your faith in humanity is quite inspirational.

Diver Dan
"...It is difficult to argue that the top down rule of the RC Church is a prime reason in the development of entrenched corruption, and their unwillingness to deal with the obvious anomalies, in particular the covering-up of paedophilia. ... I have great respect for the honest folk of the RC Church; but not a lot for the entrenched culture of its hierarchy, when such of them smother corruption."

The teachings of the Catholic Church that I referred to, apply to all its members including the hierarchy. Implemented administrative policy calls for accusations of sexual misbehaviour against members of the hierarchy to be referred to the police.

If you have evidence that there is sexual misbehaviour or corruption that has not been reported to the police, then you should inform the police. Otherwise, the honourable thing to do is to retract your claim that corruption is entrenched in the hierarchy.

Squeers,

Okay, you believe that the history of the institutional church can be summed up in a few disparaging sentences, and I don't. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

The crux of Geraldine Doogue's relatively brief article was why she was still committed to her faith. You think that she neglected to address the article's title, although she didn't stint on that subject when she wrote, amongst other things:

"...The church frames my identity, as basic as that. It's the source of consolation without peer.....It has been one of the most rewarding avenues of growth and stimulation of any in my life...I brings great capacity for rapture, beauty, sensuality, joy...So I treasure the sheer tradition of faith. I seek it out. It helps me fulfill the natural human urge to make meaning....", etc.

Why the withering commentary when she was merely offering her take on the future of the Catholic tradition? And who in our society isn't "institutionalised"? Yes, I know we all pretend to be free and the master of our own destinies, but most are merely in the thrall of the many institutions that collectively serve to direct their material lives.

Geraldine spoke of aspects of her faith that bestow "meaning" to her. She thinks they are worth preserving for future generations. I believe that emanates from a generosity of spirit derived from her faith.

It's something to praise, not to censure.

"

Diver Dan
"...Quite simply, the Roman Catholic Church is, (and again) quite obviously, a defective model of Christianity!"

You seem unaware that the Roman Catholic Church is the only Christian denomination that has continuous links back to Jesus Christ. That is, it is not a model of Christianity -- it is the real thing.