Every discussion on porn equates all porn with rape fantasy (entirely valid, and a recurrent or dominant sexual fantasy for many *women*) or aggression or violence. Sure it exists, but it's like demonising food because some people like McDonalds.

'Even “healthy” families are bound to succumb'

Please yourself squeersy but I really have more faith in love. You're a romantic you are.

'Incongruously, she depicts the institution she wants to preserve as a one-sided affair wherein the male uses, abuses and bludges on the female, domestically, while evincing no real capacity for “love”, sensitivity, empathy or fidelity, being incapable of empathising with her needs.'

Yep, the standard picture painted of men in relationships from any feminist worth her salt. Like I said, she assumes the women in the relationships with these porn loving men are bastions of virtue.

Could it be that feminists cant comprehend men categorising and compartmentalising different aspects of their lives. I think there is an element of women incorrectly thinking that for men to ever separate lust and desire from love, they must be inhuman, and this state of separation is a permanent feature of their sexuality and being.

Sometimes men want to quickly get one off watching porn, other times they want tantric sex with their wives, sometimes they have some kind of maddonna complex with their wives on a pedestal and the wife really wants a good aggressive f&ck but the guy's worried she'll say he's objectifying her and being disrespectful. That's how I imagine relationships with feminist women would go..

I suspect even for lillian though, no matter how much she is in denial, when it all boils down to it animal attraction will out win over a feminist SNAG.

Every relationship where the woman is upset about porn I'd bet it's highly likely the relationship died long ago. It's the path of least resistance;Her happy she doesn't have to have sex with a guy she doesn't really like much anyway, and him happy to have a sexual outlet without cheating on her and both probably just staying around for the kids.

>>men's widespread patronage of the sex-industry, including porn, and increasingly "teen porn" and, more disturbingly, "kiddy porn" (what is in fact the filmed sexual assault of children) is itself a form of rape<<

Well if all these men are guilty of rape then it is Ms. Bueskens' civic duty to report them to the police. It would put a LOT of pressure of the prison system: any charges laid would probably result in a conviction because there is so much video evidence to support any prosecutions. But that wouldn't be a for a while: I imagine the police would spend a long time sifting through that video evidence :).

Of course that's only if the police and the courts share Ms. Bueskens' peculiar conviction that porn is rape. I bet Judges watch porn too - and if it's trial by jury the case is doomed.

Child pornography is an entirely different matter: Ms. Bueskens' rather desperate attempt to conflate it with regular porn consumption isn't going to do her any favours. Men's patronage of "kiddy porn" is not widespread: pedophiles are a rare aberration and nobody likes them. Even in maximum security prisons full of thugs and creeps and sickos the pedophiles are the guys that everybody hates. Comparing them to guys that whack off over porn is clutching at straws.

Cheers,

Tony

"Every relationship where the woman is upset about porn I'd bet it's highly likely the relationship died long ago."

Well, that's the answer, folks. The previous commenter has straightened us all out. Porn = good! Anti-porn = bad.

Humans are such pathetic creatures.

Well apart from the feminists who just hate men, the real problem is opposite sexes are looking at, but just not seeing each other.

When couples get together he is shacking up with a lover, she is making home with a meal ticket & father to be. The pair are at such cross purposes that it is a wonder any pairing ever lasts.

A case history. As a young bloke I was a member of a car club, based on an obscure English sports car. We did the Sunday & weekend drive thing, & a bit of motor sport, but also went skying, water skying sailing & such like together.

Barry was a young bloke, previously much the single, turned up one day with a girl. They were all over each other like a rash, couldn't keep their hands off each other. She was great girl, a bit overawed by the group at first but she quickly became one of the girls, & a regular on our trips. She even started competing in some low level motor sport.

A couple of years later, after they were married we saw less & less of them. Quite a few years later Barry reappeared, single, & into everything. He turned up at my place one might, looking for a shoulder to cry on, the divorce was painful.

Continued.

Continued

It all came out. She was his first real girlfriend, & the attraction, & the sex were wonderful, with her the instigator as often as he. Somehow, after a couple of years of marriage she had changed. Having bought a house, money was short, & most time was spent at home, but she was distant & disinterested in sharing.

Another couple of years & unless he put in hours of seduction, as if on a first date, any sex was grudgingly provided, & intimacy no longer existed. She no longer ever instigated any intimacy.

Deciding this was all too much trouble, he withdrew, to see if she would ever come to him. She didn't. A little later she shot through with another bloke. One of the grounds in her divorce application was that there had been no intimacy in the relationship for some years.

Is it any wonder that some men turn to porn, & how many women chase their men off to it.

Jon J and Shadow Minister,

Pornography use ouside of a committed relationship does harm. It harms by supporting an industry that demeans and abuses women, inside and outside of the industry. Female sex workers have paltry opportunities and are often the victims of early sexual abuse. And I don't beleive you would advocate pornography as a carreer for your mothers, wives or daughters. The images that you "enjoy" as a single guy linger like toxic sludge when you finally find a woman you love and want to be with.

Pornography depicts sexual scenerios that simply are not real, yet it creates an expectation that reality should comply with these outrageous scenes. Nearly 97 percent of pornographic videos portray anal sex, yet in polls of random samplings of women, less than 3 percent desire it. There is no magical disconnect between what you see in pornography and what you expect with actual partners. Pornography tells you "how to do it", just like McDonald's tells you what to eat. It doesn't make it right, or healthy.

To equate the anti-pornography stance with the mind policing of personal fantasy (thinking of other women) is sophomoric. When you are using your own brain power to think erotically you are using your nuerological energy in creative and uniquely personal ways. When you sit like a pig in front of a screen and have "sex" served up for you in HD, with NO room for your imagination, you are following the pied piper of pornography like a moron.

Please explain to me how you are going to relate to an actual woman after having poisened your nueropathways with material that was created for profit by a billion dollar industry. Where in pornography does it teach you the interpersonal nuance of responding to the touch of another human being in a way that is unique to that moment and to that woman.

And yes, erotic images have always been around, but they were limited representations of sexual activity not technicolor close ups of altered physiology at rapid speed with infinite varieties of otherwise not imagined images.