runner
A secular humanist would not have banned religion. You need to understand what it means to be a secularist?

It is about allowing a number of beliefs to live in harmony with each other under a Common Law without persecution from a dominant religion/non-religion with government influence. How is interference by governments going to further your cause? What if the government was against your religion? You would not condone a non-secular approach in that case I am sure.

In what way is it the same as the Russian experience where the religious were persecuted. You say it but you don't explain your interpretation.

Under your utopia you are arguing for a dominant religous force and a government influenced by one religious force. In countries where that exists there is also atrocities and infringements on human rights.

There are aspects of Islam which are concerning such as that which is happening in the UK ie. 'permission' to discriminate against non-Muslims. Not to mention the same arrogance as most religions in the insistence that their's is the right way. There are also infringements of human rights within some Christian denominations as well including in the most extreme of sects. Thankfully neither of these extreme viewpoints have influence overall although they try and the Christian Lobbies are good at lobbying governments to make personal decisions in people's lives.

How to balance all that in a modern world is the tricky part and I don't have all the answers only that a better approach would be to allow freedom of religion/belief where it does not contravene the Law rather than to deny it.

This whole essay is nothing but a “don’t criticize us or our religion statement”. I really don’t know where Trad gets the idea that Muslims “should not have the right to respond using peaceful means.” As far as I know, in the West Muslims have freedom of speech. Perhaps he is thinking about Islamic societies….

Trad, it is not that we, non-Muslims, are experts, telling you what Islam is or isn’t. We just point out texts that you Muslims pretend don’t exist. Or perhaps you would care to explain the “Muslims are put on earth to kill and be killed” verse in the Quran, or maybe you could share your beliefs as to non-Muslims being “lower than animals.” Could it be that things like this may be the cause of the hate, violence, and discrimination that Muslims practice everywhere?

Personally I would not consider the hate and violence in the Quran and hadith to be a problem IF Islamic societies were not so violent, hateful and abusive. But they are so I guess it is logical to blame Islam. Trad wants us to pretend there is no link between what Islam teaches and what Muslims do, and if there is, it is all our fault for mentioning inconvenient truths.

It has been a while since Trad graced us with an article. 31/2 years! The last time he suffered from rather bad timing, being published just before members of the “religion of peace” went out to kill 150+ infidels in Mumbai (while in contact with their Pakistani friends and voicing vile references to nonMuslims!).

And there is this… “Keysar Trad, the longtime spokesman for Muslim cleric Sheik Taj bin al-Hilaly, has been described as "racist" and "offensive" by a judge who today rejected his defamation claim…
http://www.news.com.au/keysar-trad-loses-defamation-case/story-0-1225756780733

Would this be the same al-Hilaly that is known for criminal actions, lies, hate, defamation and violence against women and non-Muslims? It would!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly

My favorite quote: In March 2009, Hilaly was caught on camera vandalising the Lakemba Mosque and then calling police to report the vandalism.

Those evil infidels made him do it!

Before we worry about Moslems, who have some deeply unpleasant stuff in their holy book but who comprise only about 2% of the population, maybe we should worry about the far more numerous Christians. These quotes are from the King James Version of the Bible.

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Deuteronomy 3:1-7
Turned out to be too big for my word limit. Look it up yourself.

Psalms 137:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

There are many other examples, but that last one is about the nastiest I could find. Bashing your children against rocks to get your kicks? That's pretty fukked up.

But I jest, of course. I don't seriously think Christians should be ostracised for their dubious moral beliefs: most Christians have never even seen Hosea 13:16 or Psalms 137:9. The Bible is large and incredibly boring in parts - people tend to stick to good bits like Genesis and the Gospels and Revelations, and skip some of the less exciting books. Those that have read them are almost bound to agree that they express abhorrent sentiments which any decent Christian would reject. I see no logical reason why most Moslems would not treat the Qu'ran in the same manner.

Cheers,

Tony

Yea watch out Tony for those wicked Salvos who house the poor and needy. And those rotten happy clappers who keep their wedding vowels and generally do a very good parenting job. Lets get rid of them and replace them with Lesbian dads and homosexual mums. Our current leaders are just fine moral examples of secular humanism.

btw you don't seem to even know the difference between Judaism and Christianity ( just a small overlooked matter). Never mind Christians are use to such ignorance.

>>Yea watch out Tony for those wicked Salvos who house the poor and needy.<<

Too much effort to read the whole post, runner?

>>I don't seriously think Christians should be ostracised for their dubious moral beliefs: most Christians have never even seen Hosea 13:16 or Psalms 137:9... Those that have read them are almost bound to agree that they express abhorrent sentiments which any decent Christian would reject.<<

As to the differences between Judaism and Christianity: there are quite a few of them, but I assume that what you mean is that Jews don't have a New Testament. Christians do, but that doesn't mean the Old Testament is null and void.