...Continued

As with rape, murder, paedophilia, etc. I think it’s largely that we’re more aware of these things now that they’re reported on and exposed more. The media relentlessly pursue politicians nowadays; only decades ago, the American media would never have dreamed of exposing JFK’s indiscretions and yet Clinton was fried for his.

<<Do you really believe those who didn't get disciplined via smacking are better people ?>>

Again, I can only go by my observations, but they tend to be less anxious and more “grounded”.

divine_msn,

Modesty aside, yes, I do have a very good long term memory. I don’t appreciate the implication that I’m either a liar or delusional.

I’m not sure why you put in all that effort to explain a method of parenting so many parents use. How could I not have known all that?

One better method than smacking a child, who is too young to understand that mum’s coffee is hot, is to not put them in the situation to begin with. And if you’ve put them into a “situation” without realising it at first, then take them out of it. If they’re too young have the hazards of touching hot coffee explained to them, then they’re too young to understand that you had good reason to smack them.

In unexpected situations, a sharp “No!” (and maybe a clap) is sometimes enough and if it’s not, then again, take them out of the situation and prevent them from getting back into it.

Yes, parenting like this requires effort, but I feel I’m reaping the rewards of this now and it saves a lot of time in the long run.

As for all your suggestions that came after, they’re good ways of encouraging children to go behind your back...

Parent: Don’t let me catch you doing that again.
Child: Okay, I’ll make sure you don’t catch me next time.

Children learn about consequences without punishment and rewards, they don’t live in a bubble. And when you take privileges and possessions, your child doesn’t think, “Hmmm... now I can see that what I did was wrong.”

Beautifully rationalised AJ, you wouldn't be a psychologist would you?

That is certainly the type of garbage they have been sprouting for quite some time. Definitely long enough to have caused a major deterioration in the civil society we all enjoyed before this BS became rampant.

It really is time we took back our lives from the "experts" who appear out of the wood work, any time there is a chance of a bit of money.

AJ - I wonder how I had 3 respectful, well mannered, generally well behaved children? They've all grown into responsible considerate adults who seemingly LIKE and appreciate their parents. Must be freaks of nature eh?

They were all smacked occasionally, poor things. They suffered further with restrictions on social lives, pastimes and pocket money if they failed to follow directives and fulfil responsibilities. Perish the thought eh? Child slave labour! They had regular chores and were often called upon at random. A hard brutal existance ... They were also showered with affection, praise when deserved, and abundance of life's little luxuries such as we could afford.

Their friends seemed OK with the 'Nazi' parenting. We frequently had rent-a-crowd at our home. Somehow we were considered 'cool' .... Maybe because we'd join in for a muck around with the kids but we never tolerated bad behaviour and never had a problem. Through school - when caning was still an option for eldest son, the most severe punishment ever recieved was 1 detention - between the 3. No 'brushes with the law' beyond couple of traffic tickets. None has ever lost a DL. I'm very proud of my kids - always have been. Are they 'naturally good'? Maybe, but my money is on upbringing.

My experience: children who get a well deserved smack as part of consistant discipline are less unruly and quicker to heed and obey parents when rebuked - so smacking is often not required. Amazing also how many children raised 'without violence' seem handy at meting it out to others - even adults.

I agree children shouldn't be exposed to danger but life is a mine field for littlies. Children learn faster to avoid dangerous behaviour if there are unpleasant consequences involved when one tries it. I too have a very good memory and despite getting many smacks and occasional few stripes with the belt I have no pretentious recollection of all the 'reasoning' I did. I was never in doubt why I was being punished nor ever for no good reason. Good luck with your kids AJ

you can certainly pick those in supermarkets who have never had a smack. Usually they are throwing a great tantrum with mum uttering useless threats that just make the situation worse. It must be so so hard for some to face the fact that we including children have a fallen nature. No wonder the pyschs get it so wrong. Meanwhile teenagers are more violent than ever. No wonder the number of people wanting to send kids to school where other parents don't smack is diminishing and those applying a tiny bit of commonsense are growing rapidly.

Hasbeen,

I’ve studied a very, very small amount of psychology, but I’m certainly far from an expert.

As for the so-called deterioration of society, I think the fallaciousness of assuming the causes for that has been well and truly covered now. There are many factors that could be at play there. We live in far more complex times than we ever have before.

Conformity is so much more easily achieved when things are black and white. Things were so much simpler when black people were inferior and the homosexual was a predator in search for adolescent boys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzgKSGD6Hgo); when the Christian was a capitalist and the atheist was a communist.

But we know better than that now and it's so much easier for kids to become lost and confused in today's world.

.

divine_msn,

It’s not hard to tell I’ve hit a nerve (somehow) when your only response is a sarcastic reply implying all sorts of ridiculous things I haven’t said or even tried to imply.

Very ordinary.

But thanks for reminding me why I usually stay out of these debates.

'it takes a pretty shallow, self-centered, thoughtless and lazy person to find any satisfaction in compliance acquired - ultimately - through fear. '

What about complience through manipulation of someone without the same mental capacity? The use of distraction of a 1 year old based on their reduced concentration span. Unethical!

At the end of the day, maybe we shouldn't even be seeking to make our children comply? I haven't heard any methods that would stand up to 'Human Rights' and Ethics.

Which is why I find the whole debate ridiculous in the first place. Just like Adults putting their sexualised notions on childrens innocent play and dressing up and copying adults, we have this moral agonising and ethical debate about how to get children to do what you want.

I think perhaps children need performance reviews, access to a Lawyer and to be self-actualised.

It's a symptom of this polarisation of every topic. Smacking is not child abuse, and regretted sex isn't rape, having a family budget and arguing with your spouce isn't financial abuse and domestic violence.

It's all bollocks.

Adult says don't hit your sister.

Child does it anyway.

Smack: Physical abuse
Move child away: Emotional abuse via exclusion
Appeal to good nature: Use of manipulation and guilt
Let child hit: neglectful parent
Water boarding: Ethically dubious

R0bert did this better than me!

All this pontificatining and ethical grandstanding and moralising could be avoided if people didn't expand the definition of everything and apply adult concepts to children.

I for one would have rathered a good wack rather than verbal abuse and manipulation as a child. I'd be far less warped I'm sure. There is something to be said for a simple message children can understand without really hurting them much and that's forgotten much faster than a character assasination or some version of a withdrawal of love and attention or bribery which relies on kids having a concept of planning for their future use of playstation.

It's here, it's now , it's unambiguous to children, and it's over quickly.

Also children are differnet, as are parents.