Ooooh, snarky, Saltpetre.

>>Pericles, When did a smack suddenly become a "beating"? We are getting a bit 'precious' here, aren't we? Political correctness run rampant?<<

Ok, I'm happy for you to substitute "smack" for "beat". It doesn't in the slightest change the points that I am trying to make.

Point #1 is that to try to draw a causal link between a lack of corporal punishment in youth, with the safety of our streets, is a nonsense.

As snake did, with:

>>...you only have to look at the total disregard for the law from rioting youths, to assault, to road rage, to inconsiderate attitudes to others that was minimal 50 years ago when punishment was inflicted on the backside <<

There is also a correlation between Australia's increased prosperity and an increase in our prison population. So?

Point #2 is simply that resorting to corporal punishment is a cop-out, and tends to normalize violence in the mind of the child. The anecdotal example I gave was the 100% presence of smacked children among those imprisoned for crimes of violence.

Your attempt to link non-physical child-rearing with your assertion that "People are so 'precious', accepting, and fearful these days" is simply laughable. Especially where your evidence is an incident on the streets of Foshan, in Guangdong province... in China.

Nice one. Since you are clearly open to international examples, how about some from the streets of Homs? How "'precious', accepting, and fearful" are they, do you think?

>>Some in our midst beat their wives, commit honour killings, abuse children, commit crime, plot terrorism - but families, neighbours, community, stay silent. And we are taught not to get involved, to be just so 'precious'<<

Sounds like you live in a dangerous neighbourhood.

But I suspect it might just be a load of grumpy hot air.

Pericles

Are you always so pedantic and patronising ? You used the phrase post hoc ergo propter, therefore you quoted something in latin, because it is a generally recognised phrase. Quod erat demonstrandum. Yes I do know what the quote means I studied a bit of Latin at Oxford so there is no need to try and exercise a superior interllect

loutish drunken behaviour seen in our streets by both sexes today.
Hasbeen,
I watched on TV the other day when the Bali Chief of Police warned the stupid Australians who behaved in that very manner. Now, if one did get arrested then there'd be an outcry again just like with that dumb crap kid a while ago.
Only discipline can prevent Australia from having to cope with such idiotic mentality. National Service first & an apprenticeship or study second. A better society guaranteed within two years.

When we smack children, we teach them that the way to get someone smaller than us to comply is to hit them.

I would rather my children do the right thing because they understand that it’s the right thing to do and because they want to, rather than doing it because they’re afraid of what I’ll do if they don’t. The same goes for rewards.

One method gains us compliance in the short term; the other helps them with their development in the long term.

It takes a pretty shallow, self-centered, thoughtless and lazy person to find any satisfaction in compliance acquired - ultimately - through fear. There’s so much more pride to be had in having children that don’t do the wrong thing because they understand why they shouldn’t.

I remember being smacked as a child and all I got from it was resentment and a lack of respect for authority (although, I’m sure my parents got a bit peace and quiet out of it in the short term once the crying stopped). Two thoughts would cross my mind when I was smacked:

1. I may have been naughty, but now you’re just as bad as me;
2. You’re no longer interested in teaching me a lesson; you’re just taking your anger out on me.

Children are smart enough to realise that when the people, whom they are totally reliant on, resort to inflicting pain in order to gain control, then they have actually lost control and given up and are no longer thinking rationally. It’s a great way to teach children that it’s alright to act upon irrational impulses.
I remember getting the cane in school too and my red fingers were like a badge of honor. My only regret, at the time, was that it wouldn’t scar.

My ability to distinguish between right and wrong was learned in spite of physical punishment, not because of it. The only thing physical punishment taught me was that sometimes adults do the wrong thing too.

It’s amazing how easily so many of us seem to forget all this as adults.

Two thoughts would cross my mind when I was smacked:
AJ Philips,
Well, that's you. Most of us didn't think that at all. We realised hey, we did the wrong thing & this is why we got smacked And, as we got smacked we thought a few more thoughts not just one.
No-one, including you at such a young age has the mentality or wisdom to rationalise the way you try & tell us. Look at the society around you now. It's made up of a majority of people who didn't get smacked. Is this the outcome won really want to continue ?
Do you really think we're such a great society now ? Do you really think many of the crap heads in high positions now are the people we really want to run the show ?
Do you really believe those who didn't get disciplined via smacking are better people ?
Do you really believe those who did get a smacking are not he people who went out & pulled their weight in society ?
I guarantee you if you asked many successful business operators or entrepreneurs that they'll tell you with a grin "my old man gave me a belting when I did this or that ?
When you go to ask around don't confuse high ranking bureaucrats with successful people.

individual

‘You can not & definitely must not object to discipline.’

I don’t object to the kind of discipline that respectfully guides and mentors children. I do, however, object to the kind of discipline that uses physical and emotional punishment to force children to submit to rules and authority – not because the authority is right, but because it’s bigger and stronger. How anyone can subscribe to the belief that the less respectfully children are treated throughout their childhoods, the more respect they will have for others and for the society they live in, is anyone’s guess. But a lot of people seem to think it makes perfect sense.

R0bert

All the scenarios you describe (the less silly ones), that would be deemed crimes if they weren’t committed by parents on children, only reinforces mine and the author’s original point. The kind of parenting that relies on assaulting another human being in both physical and emotional ways – putting kids in naughty corners, taking away their toys, denying their everyday privileges, and of course smacking – is more about controlling others, not raising happy, respectful kids. And, analogies aside, conflating parental discipline of children with police apprehending violent criminals indicates to me that you've got a few control issues hiding in the cupboard.