If grabbing someone by the neck, handcuffing them and throwing them in jail (and shooting them if they resist) is not a physical assault, Mishka, then what is?!

The only thing that COULD differentiate the state from other thugs is when people willingly agree to be ruled by it. However, were you ever given the option? were you ever asked for and given your consent to be ruled by it?

Er, Yabby, there's nothing in that link that contradicts what I said. The President "risks" excommunication if he votes for the RH legislation. Nothing new there.

"The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which is 'wide' (latae) or widely applied; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (CCC 2272) and does not require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority."

Bishops can declare that an excommunication has been incurred, after the fact. That is not a bluff or a lie. When they tell someone they will be excommunicated if they do something, it is a warning - they are informing their flock of the repercussions of their actions. That's not threatening, that's warning someone of risk or danger.

Sorry, Yuyutsu, you've lost me. Abortion is legal in this country, in some places up right up to birth. The state protects women who have abortions, and it deals lightly with those who commit infanticide (I imagine because of mitigating circumstances). I don't know of any pro-life groups, Catholic or otherwise, who advocate the criminalisation of abortion. Most concentrate their practical efforts on reducing abortion numbers and providing services to alleviate the problems that lead to women having abortions in the first place. Even if (hypothetically) the state did arrest women as they tried to enter an abortion clinic, they would be doing so in order to prevent a murder; if, after the fact, on account of a murder taking place (but state laws do not exist for such a scenario and are not likely to). Arresting someone for a crime is not assault.

I am afraid I will no longer be able to comment on this thread as I am taking a vacation as of now - I've already worked past my knock-off time!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

Yabby,

I think you can have the last word. I will only say this - the Catholic Church is pro- life, and this is understandable for a faith believing in God and the hereafter and in Heaven and Hell. My belief is that this pro-life stance is intended to encourage people to lead good lives, and to believe in the sanctity of their own and every other life. The situation in the Phillipines is indeed regrettable, and it is also regrettable that there is this lack of separation of church and state. A similar situation probably exists in many other parts of the world, and mostly involving other faiths than Catholicism or Christianity. There are also over-the-top Christian movements with far more radical views than Catholicism, but fortunately the state is not governed by them. All belief systems seem to have their failings, but I think Catholicism is far from the worst of them. We should all believe in live and let live, but that appears far from accomplishment at this time in a very troubled world. Mankind in dreams of a better future has made many errors and is due to make more yet before all can come to accept the weakness of spirit which has led mankind so far from enlightenment. All we can really do is hope that wise men and women will find a better way forward, where 'good conscience' is given due sway, in the name of peace and goodwill on Earth toward all men.

Have a good Christmas and New Year, and safe driving.

*When they tell someone they will be excommunicated if they do something, it is a warning - they are informing their flock of the repercussions of their actions. That's not threatening*

Lol Lindy, what clever wordplay! Clearly those Philippinos perceive
those err warnings as threats. Its also a clever way for the church
to control a Govt. Do as we say or your future is hell and damnation.

But lets take a look at this automatic excommunication thinggy.
Women who have had an abortion, automatically excommunicated. People
who don't see abortion as a grave sin, automatic excommunication.

Given that most of the Western world supports abortion in the first
trimester and to my knowledge, the abortion rate amongst Catholics
is not much different from non Catholics, clearly a good chunk of
that diminishing Catholic flock in the West, is not Catholic at all!

WM Trevor, I certainly agree with you. Hitchins was a great thinker
and a great wordsmith.

Yes, Yabby, my guess is that a very large chunk of people who identify as Catholics aren't very Catholic after all. Lots of my friends regularly point this out. But that's what I respect about the Catholic Church - you can follow your conscience, leave, believe what you want. If those politicians really don't believe they're doing anything wrong, then they shouldn't bothered by the prospect of excommunication - give these people some credit for basic intelligence, Yabby. If you don't believe abortion is wrong, you can simply leave, find a church that fits your views better, or simply abandon church-going altogether. Catholics have some pretty difficult rules to live by, but outside of those rules there's an amazing amount of diversity, a lot of leeway for different opinions. And there's always the option of going back. I don't know any Catholics who are tormented by guilt, because they have a very human attitude towards sin and know they can get a clean slate any time they want by going to confession. Whether you believe in it or not, that's pretty cool.