Poirot,

You want to know something about Aussie culture, apart from the "..mere rhetoric about "mateship" and the never-ending whinging and cringing.."

Try volunteering, charity, compassion, care for the world environment, care for civil rights at home and abroad, puting their lives on the line defending the rights of civilians in virtually every theatre of war in the last 150 years, fighting for the rights of the underdog, the best and perhaps only effective working model of multiculturalism in the world today, believing in fair play and the rights of minorities, tolerance (Squeers note I repeat, Tolerance), democracy, secularism, freedom of speech, religion and association, trade unionism, universal healthcare, welfare and prosperity for all, freedom and security for all... (Fair enough? See any contrasts with other regimes?)

Squeers,

"The neonationalists, on the other hand, and their bogan minions, are living in a world of fantasy, wherein they naively think they can have their four-wheel drives and other luxuries.. while maintaining an old-world stability and integrity .."

So, our "culture" isn't worth fighting for, and we should just "wake up" and invite ourselves to be taken over from within, or just invite our strongest neighbour (Indonesia? - think East Timor or West Papua!) (Japan maybe?) to take us over and show us how to do it better? Fair go, Squeers, we all know we are way better than that.

Looking around the world today, with "realism", show me another effective multicultural example - Tibet?, UK, Germany, France? But we're intolerant, eh?

So, we're all living in the lap of luxury, tearing around in gay abandon in our 8 cylinder FWD's? That's a new "reality" for me! But because some of us think we do have the best multicultural society in the world and have effective certainty of personal care and security, and are so brash as to think this is worth preserving, then we are Facists or Neonationalistic Bogans? Thanks for the vote of confidence.

We ain't perfect, and have many doing it tough, but we're trying, and we're not about to roll over and play dead, not for anyone.

fiandra,

I agree with the idea of immigrants trying to fit in, though Australia also has to be tolerant of diverse cultural practices. Who are these immigrants who "make their adopted country change to suit them"? And what changes have been enforced?

I agree completely on the flag issue. They're too divisive and ought to be banned here too. What gives the rednecks in my neck of the woods not only the right to fly their colonial flag, but to rise up in high dudgeon if the Aboriginal flag is flown, or any other flag? The UK just like Australia is multicultural and gave up its right to white supremacy when it imported negro slaves and colonised and exploited half the planet. The Australian flag is part, indeed emblematic, of that disgraceful history; the imperial power in the corner and the rest indicating its dominance in the region of the Southern Cross. Australia's not even represented. The flag issue in the UK illustrates the real problem perfectly; those who resent the Union Jack over there are not preferring and cherishing their own expatriot flags, they are resenting the exclusivity of the Jack; the fact that they are patently not included as part of patriotic revelries, but pointedly excluded, indeed hated by the archetypal poms. They live in the country but are not proper Britons, just as aboriginals or third generation Chinese are not proper Aussies (can you believe it!)
The immigrants are not the problem, the jingoistic nationalists are! I love the concept of Multiculturalism, of unity within diversity, but we're never going to have that and white supremacism simultaneously.

Anyway whatever anybody thinks, multiculturalism is here to stay. How about we deport all primary trouble makers, regardless of nationality? There'd a be a lot of true blues among em!

Did everyone hear Noam Chomsky on OZ recently: http://www.abc.net.au/sundayprofile/stories/3355416.htm

divine, great work. The pledges are trump cards.

kactuz, bazz, fiandra, diver dan the evidence you've laid out is beyond dispute.

Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron were not speaking lightly when they said multiculturalism had failed - it has actually been a global catastrophe.

Ms Aslan has a blinkered understanding of how multiculturalism in Europe and other places has worked in practice - think the murder of Theo van Gogh, death threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, riots in Paris and other French cities in 2005, the London underground bombings in the same year, the Bali bombings in 2002 and 2005, the fortunately thwarted planned attack on Holdsworthy army base and, of course the WTC outrages and numerous other incidents of riots, affray and violence.

Interesting that the defenders of multiculturalism and Ms Aslan's proposed restrictions on freedom of speech now seem to have faded away

Squeers,

Do you seriously imagine that a very large, "piebald population" is going to protect us from invasion if elites in our region want our resources? Look at World War II. Densely populated countries still got invaded (Belgium, the Netherlands), even large, densely populated countries such as China and Indonesia (a good example of multiculturalism). Our agricultural productivity is heavily dependent on added phosphate, which is becoming scarcer and more expensive, and will drop like a stone without it, even if climate change doesn't act as a double whammy. Once living standards plummet and the various groups in our society start to compete and fight each other over resources, this will provide a perfect excuse for outsiders to intervene, especially if the people in some of these groups are their co-ethnics or co-religionists.

A better course of action might be to follow the lead of Israel on defence matters, as it has survived for more than 60 years, despite being outnumbered many times over by hostile neighbours. Boosting the population beyond what we can sustain in the worst case without trashing our environment is profoundly stupid, whether it is done by mass immigration or by pronatalist bribes.

Sorry Squeers, but you have lost it with that last piece, out the window. You've not only thrown out the baby with the bathwater, but thrown out the whole bath as well. It appears that in your neoliberalistic fervour you have now left this planet. Best of luck to you.

An example of an adoptive country's "accommodation"? I suppose being carted off for flying the country's national flag is not just such an example? But then, you want to ban all flags, dirty nationalistic fervour-driven emblems of colonialism, plundering and stivance for world domination. No pride in country and heritage there, eh, just reminiscences of evil in the name of progress? Do have a lend of the other one, please. No Flags at the Olympics, Please! Fairies at the bottom of the garden unite! In the name of world peace!

Fiandra, please excuse Squeers, he's obviously on his own trip. Very nice contribution of yours, Fiandra, thanks.

You asked:

".. in some cultures it's still ok to mutilate children - vaginal and penile circumcision - do you tolerate that? I hope the answer is no."

You bet it's NO, as far as female genital mutilation is concerned, but penile circumcision is still practiced to an extent, as a minor medical procedure shortly after birth - sometimes in accordance with cultural practice, and more usually in the interest of male hygiene. (But docking the tails of dogs is now a rarity.)

"In some cultures it's still ok to beat your wife - stone her if she is raped or commits adultery - so you tolerate that? I hope the answer is no."

Again you bet it's NO. Though unfortunately some idiot males still try it on, but violence against women is a crime, and a national campaign has been launched to get the message firmly home to any remaining transgressors. (However, sometimes She might beat Us about the head if we don't behave ourselves properly, and that's OK.)

Welcome to Oz, Fiandra, and I hope it can live up to all your hopes and dreams.

Saltpetre,

Wow!...with all those things you mentioned it makes you wonder why we appear so nervous about the proposition that other cultures may colour our own. I mean to say, all the values you pointed out speak of a mature, self-assured egalitarian society. Why then all the "them and us" rhetoric?

What do you reckon about the way humans migrate - amazing eh?
They've always moved about. They migrate and things change. Empires fall and new ones rise.

It is interesting reading the words of those on this forum assuming that our cosy first world arrangement should somehow be exempt from the propensity for humans to migrate to a more advantageous setting. All the insular cultural cringing in the world won't result in our culture being impervious to change.