its interesting to note the exclusion
from when wm complimented everyone but me...lol

oh well such is life
people with no proof..need to have friends

no proof wm..no facts...lol
no sorry for saying your a liar?

""BOOK I
Psalm 1

1 Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked

or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers,

2 but whose delight is in the law of the LORD,
and who meditates on his law day and night.

3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.

4 Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.

5 Therefore the wicked
will not stand..*in the judgment,""...

this means not gods judgment
but the judgment of 'others'...

those rejected to be brrrr'others'

""nor sinners
in the assembly of the righteous...."""

right-ious'..in their own eyes

""6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction."""

lies
so many lies
have been presented

yet see the few facts

as were turning this into a poetry thread

"" 7 I will proclaim the LORD’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.

8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,""...

hint hint

""the ends of the earth your possession.

9 You will break them with a rod of iron[b];"""

using their own words as s/words
[sacred words...=s/words]

"you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”""

ir their s/words
words THEY hold sacred
like evolution...species/genus
abiogensis..strawmwn...A-thiests

""10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD.."""...

to wit the FATHER
good/god
not the son*
who said good works DONE..bring good fruits

Psalm 2
1 Why do the nations conspire[a]
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the LORD and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.” ""

IF YOU GOT PROOF PRESENT IT
you dont thus avoid it..by talking arround it

""Psalm 3[a]
A psalm of David. When he fled from his son Absalom.
1 LORD, how many are my foes!
How many rise up against me!
2 Many are saying of me,
“God will not deliver him.”[b]

3 But you, LORD, are a shield around me,
my glory, the One who lifts my head high.
4 I call out to the LORD,
and he answers me from his holy mountain.

5 I lie down and sleep;
I wake again, because the LORD sustains me.
6 I will not fear though tens of thousands
assail me on every side.

7 Arise, LORD!
Deliver me, my God!


From the LORD comes deliverance.
May your blessing be on your people.""

4:..8
How long will you people turn my glory into shame?
How long will you love delusions and seek false gods

5.." For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness;
with you, evil people are not welcome.
5 The arrogant cannot stand
in your presence.
You hate all who do wrong;
6 you destroy those who tell lies.
The bloodthirsty and deceitful
you, LORD, detest.
7 But I, by your great love,
can come into your house;
in reverence I bow down
toward your holy temple.

8 Lead me, LORD, in your righteousness
because of my enemies—
make your way straight before me.

9 Not a word from their mouth can be trusted;
their heart is filled with malice.

Their throat is an open grave;
with their tongues they tell lies.

lol

9 Bring to an end
the violence of the wicked
and make the righteous secure—

you, the righteous God
who probes minds and hearts.

10 My shield[ is God Most High,
who saves the upright in heart.

12 If he does not relent,
he will sharpen...*his sword;""

[scared/word]

""he will bend and string..*his bow.

13 He has prepared
his deadly weapons;""

WORDS
not...*spin/words

""he makes ready..*his flaming arrows.

14 Whoever is pregnant with evil
conceives trouble..and gives birth to disillusionment.*

15 Whoever digs a hole..*and scoops it out
falls into the pit..*they have made.*

16 The trouble they cause..*recoils on them;
their violence comes down...*on their *own heads.

17 I will give thanks..to the LORD

because of his righteousness;
I will sing the praises of..the LORD Most High

Psalm 8

1 LORD,
our Lord,""

[good lord...god of life/living/logic and love]

how majestic...is your name..in all the earth!""

thy name is good
love
grace
mercy

all active qualities

""You have set your glory
in the heavens.

2 Through the praise of children and infants
you have established a stronghold against your enemies,"""

just as now they subvert us..*into EVILootion as children
to take thee lord..out of the picture...*


""to silence the foe
and the avenger.""

ie those who lie
who need friends..because they PERCIEVE foes
[loving...theories*..not each other]


""3 When I consider your heavens,
the work..of your fingers,""

the moon and the stars,
which..*you have set in place,

4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,?

...human beings..8that you care for them?"""

thats easy..he sustains
EVEN THEM,..their life..

""5 You have made them
a little lower than the angels
and crowned them..with glory and honor.

6 You made them rulers
over the works of your hands;
you put everything under their feet:

7 all flocks and herds,
and the animals of the wild,

8 the birds in the sky,
and the fish in the sea,

all that swim the paths of the seas.

9 LORD, our Lord,
how majestic is your name

in all the ear-th!

One under god,

You must never feel left out, for you are in our hearts and minds warmly and indelibly, and no finer tribute has been bestowed than Wm's earlier exploration of the intricate imagery of Your very own quote of quotes: "the tree of lief". Thought provoking, inspiring and so fundamentally spiritual.

Though this thread has at times been rather challenging, your contributions have always been thoughtful and heartfelt. You have expressed the word, and the word has been good. Keep up the good work.

And now, a thought of mine, and no axe to grind:

And so, coupled to this Orb
Of the infinitely finite,
Wandering twixt dark and light
Man strains for sight
Beyond the bloodied sword.

Brothers in Flesh,
Divided in Spirit,
Made thus in inconsistency
Of ages un-blessed,
And now perplexed
The search for Unity,
For Paradise, afresh.

WMTrevor, I like your approach.

Pericles,

[Unless you have a quibble with the translation itself, there can be little leeway in the interpretation, can there. Paul was reporting an experience, a vision, an apparition. Not flesh-and-blood.]

I’m no expert in Greek, I was simply noting that a vanilla reading would in fact indicate a flesh appearance. But like I said, the details are of little importance if the bigger picture is unaffected.

[Martyrdom has been a feature of many religions, and survives to this day in the form of Islamic suicide bombers, or self-immolation by Hindus and Buddhists. Of itself it demonstrates nothing except for the emotional power that religion itself exerts.]

I agree.

But as I explained previously, the suicide bomber example is completely irrelevant here. Suicide Bombers die for their belief in the truth of Mohammed’s words- and Mohammed died around 1,500 years ago.

The point is not that some people believed in Jesus and then they were martyred. Not at all. The point is that Jesus had followers who lived alongside him, doubted him, and then changed after the event of his death, claiming that a supernatural event took place. They were willing to die for the truth of something and because they were around at the time and knew others who were, they were in a position to know whether it was true or not. The idea that Jesus’s followers willingly died for something they knew was false is something that seems quite absurd.

Also, as NT Wright argues here (http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2011/04/22/3198806.htm ) the entire Jewish understanding changed on many different levels. People simply wouldn't have expected Jesus to do what they later claimed he did. So not only were they dying for something they were in a position to KNOW (not just believe), but they died for something which would've challenged some of their previously held understandings. They weren't predisposed towards making the story up, as many naively claim they would've been.

(continued)

[Not really. They differ in exactly the ways you would expect an oral legend to differ - in the detail. Once again, consider the legend of Robin Hood, and the difference of detail between Howard Pyle's "The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood", and the Robin Hood portrayed by Russell Crowe.]

I’m not really familiar with this Robin Hood example, sorry…

[The "key elements" may agree, but the context suggests a large dose of fictionalization too.]

That’s an interesting claim, but not one that is relevant to my argument.

History is less successful at determining exactly which details were thrown in, but history IS more certain when it comes to determining a historical core. And the historical core is the only basis for my argument here.

[Each "interpretation" is dragged into the service of one theological pattern or another. With a little more historical definition, this would not be necessary, and might just prevent a lot of strife.]

Perhaps it would. But again, studying the accounts with good historical tools doesn’t deter professional historians from verifying core historical information about Jesus and his followers.

My view is that this core information is easily explained by posturing that Jesus possessed divine power, and difficult to explain otherwise.