"but nothing annoys me more in these discussions, than people who use totally arbitrary definitions for common words"

I am using the etymological meaning of the word 'religion', as per its Latin origin - to re-connect with God. There's no need for me to support the mistake, common as it may be, as if either membership in certain religious orders (such as churches) or sharing their beliefs, equates with this.

"Anything Yuyutsu likes or approves of is 'religious', and anything Yuyutsu doesn't like is apparently irreligious."

That's incorrect: I like eating ice-cream for example, but I wouldn't count that as religious and while I do approve of abortion, for example, I just don't consider it a religious practice in most cases.

I repeat: any practice that brings one closer to God is religious, while anything that draws one away from God is irreligious. My own whims do not come into it and it is not for me to scrutinize each specific case and be able to tell whether it is religious or not. Even if I do have a personal judgment about a particular activity being religious or otherwise, you don't need to accept it.

Here is an example - Kipp wrote:

"Again we have religious extremists imposing fear"

A common mistake: just because people belong to religious orders does not imply that they are religious. I can't see how imposing fear on others brings one closer to God.

"Now Shockadelic comes out with 'the old canard' that Atheism is a religion."

Atheism in itself is neither religious nor irreligious. One has to ask whether one's atheism, or the lack of belief in God's existence, brings one closer to God or otherwise. In my opinion, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Some people's disbelief in God's existence is in fact enhancing their religion, while for others, their belief in God's existence is detrimental to their religion - and vice versa.

Fancy going to all that trouble to fashion an intelligent being, and not giving the true callings of your fellow man or eve.

Who would be so spineless to give this gift to all of humanity.

There Must be a true GOD.

lea

Oh Trav!

You pull this one every time I drag you out of your comfort zone and make you think in another way that doesn’t quite align with what you want to believe...

<<I don’t believe you’re understanding my arguments.>>

The same thing happened when I showed, beyond any doubt, what a dishonest sophist someone that you admired was.

You’re right about one thing though: an agreement doesn’t need to be reached for dialogue to be “fruitful”.

Let’s look at the definition of “fruitful” in this context: -
Producing good or helpful results; productive (http://tiny.cc/sg8d7)

If you realise that “fruitful dialogue” doesn’t require that you convince me of anything and if you don’t think that it’s “productive” to help confirm a certain viewpoint in a discussion or that doing so is a “helpful” result, then what on Earth do you think it is?

Perhaps you only consider dialogue to be “helpful” if it helps confirm your viewpoint?

I agree with Pericles about OLO being the “gift that keeps on giving”. Something is put in place to block anything that makes a theist question the validity of their beliefs and I think we’re witnessing this in action right now.

I’m understanding you perfectly well, Trav, and I think my responses demonstrate this. I also think you understand me and that’s why you’re attempting to wriggle your way out of this, leaving a suggestion of some hidden encrypted meaning in everything you’ve been saying, trailing behind you.

Maybe it’s hiding away with the “semantics” we were apparently discussing?

<<...But [the application of reason, not reason itself, being the problem] is of no practical consequence when you consider how little control we finite humans may actually have over our ability to improve our application of it>>

/sigh

This after everything I just explained in my last two posts; selective hearing/reading at its finest.

According to your logic, there is little use in any of us ever trying to apply reasoning to anything.

Which would explain a lot.

And, yes, I do still think you understand me, Trav, deliberate attempts not to, don’t count.

some great comments
i liked especially the meaning of religion
as a means to get closer to god...

[if its not about revealing more of the truth of the one good...
its not drawing people closer to good]..[god]..[its either all good or its not 'of' god..

take these endtimers
i caught a few of them namecalling...[with hate on their face]

or those who kill to serve the good...[god]..
serving us all..our very lives....clearly
they are in fact far from good..[god]

thing is we are all here...just to get closer to good
[of course good is subtle...and good is good for all
not just good for you and yours]

how the good atonement[at one meant]..
must concern itself with obsessing only the good true mercyfull charitable..is both the reason..for us being here on earth

[and the reason there is a hell]

see hell is not a threat
[its a place of darkness..for those rejecting...
chosing to reject the light...*love good grace mercy charity..etc]

recall that the personal good
is equally sustaining the life within me/you
.. as he/she sustains the life..*in..us all

ye shall cal him emmanuEL..[god with-[in]..us-[all].

equally in the begger..
equally in..the messiah..
equally with/in..a mute dumb fish

where life is good [god]..is
where love is
god is at its most true expression

god
the good nurture..in nature
even in huh?man nature

see how great thy art oh man
ahhhhhh.....men

God says,
No one can come to Me, (God the Father) except through My Son (Jesus).
Accept Jesus and have a new relationship with God.
God doesn't want his Son rejected. Jesus paid the ultimate price after all(top dollar). His life for us.
Gratitude and Thanks are in order here. fully of the Grace of God.-Hebrews-all chapters. Grace Grace Grace.
God sends out the invitation. His word the bible is a love story.
God is patient. He invites mankind to have a relationship with Him.
Prayer (talking to God) Reading His Holy word(Listening to God).
God gave mankind "free will" and he wants mankind to individually choose Him.

AJ,

The number one prerequisite for fruitful discussion is to reach mutual agreement and understanding about what each person is actually arguing.

If, after repeated attempts, I have failed in my attempts at assisting someone in understanding my argument and if, after repeated attempts I have also failed to understand their argument (as you claim I have here), then the practical thing to do is end the conversation out of respect for each other's time.

Cheers, all the best.