Yuyutsu,

It all depends on one's belief or point of view.

You are guided everyday (as is everyone) by the subliminal patterns absorbed from the world around you in the natural world. It's not somewhere you "go" for meditation - it's always there - even when it's wrapped up in the deceptive trimmings of civilization.

Somewhere around the time of the Enlightenment, man separated spiritually from his practice of integrating sky-god and natural world as partners in sacred meaning.

The point of departure for Western man was his gravitation away from close proximity and consciousness of the earth. His migration toward an urban existence and away from the land heralded the formation of a chasm between the two sacred entities that had until then sustained him - one spiritual and one temporal......

So that now you are aghast if it is suggested that you derive your spirituality from the planet that sustains the whole of you, not just your material self.

"Once (not "if") the Earth no longer survives..."
The survival of the Earth is not in question. Humankind does not have the capability to destroy the planet; indeed it is debatable whether humankind could even achieve the extinction of all life on Earth.
What Humankind is capable of, is making our planet unliveable for Humankind.
Which action could only be described as bloody stupid.
Another line ('coincidentally' from the same author) I found rather objectionable was:
"From a secular point-of-view, that believes that we are just bodies, we might indeed die as a result, but then what's the big deal?"
I'm a secularist, and personally, I found the death of one of my children to be a very big deal.
This is what it's all about. It's not about "to elevate the tyranny of our genes", but about simple compassion; not only for our fellow humans, or even our children and grand children, but for all life on Earth.
If your religion or your spirituality or your life philosophy doesn't promote universal compassion above all else, then it's an empty thing indeed.
You don't have to be religious to love and honour your mother.

Grim:
"If your religion or your spirituality or your life philosophy doesn't promote universal compassion above all else, then it's an empty thing indeed".

Sadly I fear in most cases, Grim, that such universal values are observed in name only, attenuating as they extend beyond the extended family and halting abruptly at national borders, and at the border between humans and other species. In my experience it's more often than not the secularists and the much maligned greenies, rather than the institutionalised, who aspire to cross those borders.
The UN resolution is an idealistic step in the right direction, but unfortunately immaterial.

Yuyutsu,

As an atheist/secularist, I'm appalled by your dismissal of human beings as 'just bodies' - that may well be in your scheme of things, but don't impose that repugnant belief on others.

My wife had one life, liked all of us, only here on earth, and now she is gone and everybody who knew her grieves for her, and always will. She achieved so much in a relatively short life, and worked unstintingly for the Aboriginal cause, especially for students in higher education. We each get only one life, so it matters what we do with it, especially for the betterment of others, for our fellow human beings.

No, none of us is just a body, not even you, Yuytzu: we can all make a difference, in the short time we are here on earth. We each find our own purpose, and we fight our own fight.

And no, we never get over the loss of a dearly-loved one. We will never meet again, and we grieve constantly for that. Would that we could believe otherwise, that we could immerse ourselves in fantasies of heavens and gods and cute little fat-@rsed angels and/or 72 renewable virgins.

But atheists don't have that mental luxury: the truth may set your free, but it certainly can be bloody hard to bear.

Joe

Poirot,

Of course, God is neither in the Earth nor in the Sky. God has no location -most of use have overcome that primitive notion long ago. When you mention "a chasm between the two sacred entities that had until then sustained him", surely you did not mean to say that those supposed two entities formerly sustained mankind, but a few centuries ago they looked around and decided "Oh, man is now enlightened so we must not sustain him any more...". Our sustenance from God does not depend on our belief-system!

"Aghast" could only apply if I actually believed that it was possible -a physical entity (Earth) sustaining the non-physical (spiritual). I don't!

Further, if the earth did somehow sustain my spirituality, then what would happen to my spirit in that case once the earth is no longer, as it certainly would one day? and was I spiritually deprived before Earth was formed?

Yes Grim, the earth will one day cease to exist: in 4-5 billion years it will be swallowed by the sun, unless something else destroys is first, a nearby super-nova or collision with another star.

"You don't have to be religious to love and honour your mother"

Of course you don't need to belong to an established religious order, but if you love and honour your mother, than that's [part of] your religion already!

Compassion is wonderful, but informed compassion is even better than blind compassion. Our bodies will all die, sooner or later. Asking for someone's body to remain forever, even out of compassion, is unrealistic and can only result in unnecessary pain. Through realistic compassion we can only ask that nobody should suffer, that goal is sufficient and the sages tell us that it is ultimately achievable.

I understand your upset, Joe, but if all was only matter, then nothing would actually matter, because as science tells us, no matter will last forever. May I suggest that perhaps your atheism is merely due to a too-narrow concept of God. Perhaps if you broadened your IDEA of God, then you could also enjoy the same "luxury".

No, Yuyutzu, I find the very notion of gods repugnant. People are what matter, their one-and-only lives are precious no matter who they are. We are each born with no purpose, so we forge our purpose, whatever we will dedicate ourselves to, hopefully in conjunction with other equally mortal human beings, and ideally in our mutual service to each other. So hopefully we leave life having accomplished something positive for others, having improved the lives, the one-and-only lives, of others in some way. Other people are what matter, not gods.

But go on smugly believing that you have some sort of monopoly on peace and love and compassion, that you don't have any particular purpose nor any obligation to develop one. Dedicate yourself to yourself and your fantasy future and get out of the way.

Question: if there were no gods in your fantasy world, no heaven or hell, would you believe ?

I'll give you twenty minutes :) [Source: Schopenhauer]

Joe Lane