Oh Pelican,

For some indeed, life can be tolerable without a concept of God or without believing in that concept; and it is certainly not necessary to think of God as a supernatural force (which He isn't) or even that He exists (which He does not). Indeed, people can be sustained, inspired and kept on the good path merely by their experience of God even when it comes without any intellectual/philosophical/theoretical understanding. I would personally find life dull, meaningless and distressing without the awareness of God - I would have had nothing to hope for, I wouldn't have wanted to live, but perhaps I still could, for a while, it would make no difference anyway.

It is God, the reality of God, not the thought of God, which life is impossible without. In fact, how could life (or anything else for that matter) be possible or even conceived of without God, since there is nothing else but God!

Yuyutsu
Well I respect your views even though we differ on what gives life meaning. Much of these concepts are influenced by how one defines God and from my many dealings with people of different faiths, it does seem to vary from person to person. Some internalise the idea of spirit as that connection between human beings and others sit more towards the higher power (other than human), moral framework or the idea of a fatherly figure.

Many people find that spirit connection with other people, their families, children and the wonders of the environment around them. Or they don't worry about those things and find giving to others provides a meaning.

I believe many people weave meaning to their lives in various ways and if your way is through God that is equally as valid.

But Pelican, Yuyutsu is not "weaving" a belief system, he is telling us how it is. Yuyutsu propounds ex cathedra from a perspective of certainty, and that's what I find objectionable. People may confect whatever beliefs they like so far as I'm concerned--though I do wish they'd critique them honestly--but when they claim to "know" about God etc., and intricate detail, I balk. The only thing I "know" is that while I have my conjectures, I'm profoundly ignorant of the meaning of the universe etc.
It could be that individuals like Yuyutsu are more advanced than the rest of us and possessed of esoteric knowledge denied us, but if so they should be able to impart this knowledge cogently, explaining the many inconsistencies that accumulate. Since there's none of that, I impute such "knowledge" to inflated, indeed hyperbolic, conceptions of self.
"nothing is certain except that nothing is certain, and that there is nothing more wretched nor more arrogant than Man".

I should have added that I find people who claim to "know" not merely objectionable, but potentially divisive and dangerous, since their certainty puts them in a position to judge. I cleave to my ignorance.

Yuyutsu,

When you write,

"I would personally find life dull, meaningless and distressing without the awareness of God - I would have had nothing to hope for, I wouldn't have wanted to live, but perhaps I still could, for a while, it would make no difference anyway.

"It is God, the reality of God, not the thought of God, which life is impossible without. In fact, how could life (or anything else for that matter) be possible or even conceived of without God, since there is nothing else but God!"

I have to say as an atheist and humanist that I feel very sorry for you. "Nothing else but God" ? Not a love of other people and a hope in their ultimate goodness, of striving for justice, equality and the blooming of human potential, and a hatred/dislike of injustice and lost potential - not a sense of commitment to people and causes outside yourself ?

Sorry, but that's appalling.

Just to clarify: are you a believer because you think you will eventually go to heaven ? I don't mean the 72 inexhaustible white-breasted virgins (or raisins: it depends how the word is translated), but up there (or wherever) with a god and archangels and angels ? Do you also believe in a hell, so that, for you, life here on earth becomes a constant effort to suck up to one and keep away from the other ? And nothing much else matters ?

So sad :(

Joe

Dear Joe,

Regarding heaven and hell, I don't believe these are actual places, nor that they are binary and mutually exclusive, nor silly stories about virgins, angels and archangels. At the most extreme end, heaven is the state of being one with God and at the other extreme, hell is being totally unaware of, and subjectively separated from, God.

Just because I am not a humanist does not make me incapable of love:

"Not a love of other people"
-Other people are divine, just as me. Recognizing God in others is a religious practice and loving others is a way to love God.

"hope in their ultimate goodness"
- Why "hope" where there is certainty? Everyone is inherently goodness personified already (even while their minds are clouded by ignorance and their behaviour temporarily reflects that ignorance)!

"striving for justice"
-Why "strive" when justice is already here?
From a human point-of-view justice can never be fully achieved, but once we take a broader perspective and look beyond our temporary human condition, we all receive absolute justice according with our deeds.

"equality"
-People are not equal and never will be, no matter how much you'll try to square the circle. Besides our obvious physical and mental differences, we are also at different stages of spiritual evolution and we have different lessons to learn. We are however ultimately equal in the sense that what we are not really humans - ultimately what we are is God, so we all equal God.

"blooming of human potential"
-The blooming of human potential is in achieving union with God.

"and a hatred/dislike of injustice and lost potential"
-I prefer compassion and fortitude over hatred, and taking a longer-term approach.

"not a sense of commitment to people"
-Commitment to what we actually are, not to the erroneous state of being people, which is an illusion.

"and causes outside yourself"
-There is small-self (often referred to as 'ego') and True-Self, which is God. Commitment to what is outside my small-self -definitely, but there is nothing outside my True-Self, outside God, and therefore nothing else to commit to.