it is a little hard to see sufficient justification for rejecting any objective presentation of the foundations of that faith. Maranatha,

It is just that we are NOT objecting to any " objective presentation of the foundations of that faith"

What we are rejecting and objecting to is federal and state funds being spent on teaching children in state schools a narrow and often very selective version of one particular faith.

Why are Christians not out calling for religious education that incorporates all religions and all belief systems ? Why do they insist theirs is the only possible option ?

Australia is and always has been multicultural and multi faith why are these classes not reflecting that ?

It is instructive that the original article here, and many of those supporting it, continue to voice the lie that those who oppose SRE are 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' or want to 'deprive children of their cultural heritage'. How many times do we have to say it?

Opponents of SRE and chaplaincy don't want less religion in schools - we want more! We don't want children to know less about religion. We want them to know more. We don't want children's choices restricted. We want them to have more choices as a result of having more knowledge.

Not one of us is campaigning to 'preach' atheism in schools. We find the idea of indoctrinating children into atheism as offensive as indoctrinating them into any belief system, philosophical position or political allegiance. What we should be giving our kids is information and the skills to process that information critically so that, when they are sufficiently mature, they can make their own decisions.

Only those who are not confident that their particular agenda cannot survive a new generation of informed, well-educated, critical thinkers would object to what we suggest - an academically-oriented course in comparative religions & philosophies.

Can I repete what Chrys has said in capitol letters while yelling YES YES YES at the top of my voice?

WE WAnT RELIGION TAUGHT IN ALL SCHOOLS STATE AND PRIVATE, WE WANT ALL RELIGIONS AND ALL BELIEFS TAUGHT TO ALL CHILDREN. WE WANT THE BIBLE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS WE WANT IT DISCUSSED AND DEBATED OPENLY AND HONESTLY ALONGSIDE ALL OTHER RELIGIOUS BOOKS AND PHILOSOPHIES.

How do we explain this to Christians ?

Is there a bible verse that says "There are none so blind as they who will not see " ?

+=+=+ =+
It is instructive that the original article here, and many of those supporting it, continue to voice the lie that those who oppose SRE are 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' or want to 'deprive children of their cultural heritage'. How many times do we have to say it?

Opponents of SRE and chaplaincy don't want less religion in schools - we want more! We don't want children to know less about religion. We want them to know more. We don't want children's choices restricted. We want them to have more choices as a result of having more knowledge.

Not one of us is campaigning to 'preach' atheism in schools. We find the idea of indoctrinating children into atheism as offensive as indoctrinating them into any belief system, philosophical position or political allegiance. What we should be giving our kids is information and the skills to process that information critically so that, when they are sufficiently mature, they can make their own decisions.

Only those who are not confident that their particular agenda cannot survive a new generation of informed, well-educated, critical thinkers would object to what we suggest - an academically-oriented course in comparative religions & philosophies.

Jimmy Jones "If they're getting the same thing at home, then why waste school time with it?"

You could use that argument about almost *any* subject, as I already pointed out (music, sport, sex education, cooking, foreign languages, carpentry, etc).

"Students who don't participate are made to feel like pariahs,"

So are boys who don't like cricket and like piano.
Deal with it.

"and there is a fair amount of coercion going on to "fit in""

"Children of parents who don't want their children taught fairy tales as though they are true are forced to DO NOTHING."

I used the library or playground to study when I was young. I doubt anything's changed (except some people's attitudes to SRI).

"substitute classes in ethics are not available"

If these are so essential they should be part of the general curriculum.

franc hoggle "Your children [presumption: I have children] almost certainly are already being tortured and deprived of their childhoods by being subjected to church and sunday school [presumption: I am Christian]."

Troll.

"Stop manipulating our children for the sake of your own grubby, selfish, political interests."

Ditto. Leave your progressive utopian agenda, taught compulsorily to *all* students, out of the school curriculum.
*Your* children don't have to attend.

McReal "There are many situations where kids disadvantaged or are made to feel bad for 'opting out' or 'being opted out'."

Deal with it.
Do you want a generation of passive clones that just do what everyone else does and never step out of line?

"There are probably many non-religious parents "allowing their children into these classes""

Obviously not militant atheists.
Parents making poor decisions is their own problem, not a reason to change the system.

"our civilisation's history would be utterly indecipherable without that knowledge."

"utterly indecipherable"?? You protest too much."
Jimmy Jones "Utterly indecipherable"?? Oh please! Give me a break hahhaa."

Okay, please explain our civilisation's history *without* mentioning Christianity.
Explain Joan of Arc.
Explain the Sistine Chapel.
Explain the Teutonic Knights.
Explain Utah.

Jimmy Jones. "I think you'll actually find that most secularists DO want religion to be taught in school... COMPARATIVE religion"

I sincerely doubt that, given what I read here.

individual "to accept a particular faith a person should be 21 or grown up to make that decision. Don't try & brainwash some poor kids who have no concept of it."

I doubt schoolchildren are in a position to question *anything* they are taught. Should we teach them anything at all?

sauropod "Making an opt-out student sit at the back of the classroom during SRI is plainly a violation of their parent's wishes."

And never happens.
They go outside.

pelican "Perhaps shockadelic and Mr Ward can explain why RI has to take place in schools and not as part of the religious community to which people are involved."

See above.

"In communist countries and under Hitler, children were indoctrinated and forced into adopting certain political dogmas."

And now it's your turn.
Recycle. Tolerate. Celebrate Diversity. Or Else.

Dug "Every child should understand christianity, they should also understand and have a working knowledge of Islam Judaism Hindu Buddhist and atheism."

Why? What significant role has Islam (other than as violent invaders) or Eastern religion had on our civilisation?

Squeers "State Schools are no place for religious instruction"
Chrys Stevenson "the amount of money being poured into the chaplaincy program is astronomical - and tax-payers are sitting up and taking notice."

Why should the state *pay* millions for the soccer balls, pianos, maintenance of sports fields, carpentry tools, cooking utensils and ovens, etc?

Why is it the *state's* responsibility to teach a child to speak French, play the tuba, hammer nails, hit a tennis ball or cook pasta?
Shouldn't their parents be doing this?

"They can see that a divisive group which stands for values antithetical to those of most Australians is not only having an undue influence on our government, they are instrumental in foisting those same divisive, intolerant 'values' upon our kids"

Yes, those man-hating, white-blaming, Christophobic fascists-in-liberal-clothing have got to go!

Shockadelic, your posts show how poorly informed you are on this subject. I'm not going to bore everyone by refuting every one of your points. The extent of your ignorance of the subject can be shown with just one point:

"sauropod "Making an opt-out student sit at the back of the classroom during SRI is plainly a violation of their parent's wishes."

Shockadelic: And never happens. They go outside.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/forced-to-listen-to-word-of-god/story-fn6b3v4f-1225998981589

And from the website of the chaplain and SRE teacher at the school:

“Pray for year 8 & 9 classes today, especially for the students who have not attended SRE before and who will be bringing their own work to do in class. Pray that they will be quiet and that they will hear God’s message as Bernie teaches the other students. Pray for Holy Spirit annointing, power and authority on Bernie.”

For the screen shot of this now deleted post, see my blog:

http://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/religious-conversion-by-stealth-in-nsw-schools/

And, anticipating the next obfuscation - no, it's not an isolated incident.