Hasbeen
My kids thankfully were never bullied to any great degree. No more than what could be considered the norm experienced by most girls.

It would have been difficult for you being picked on all the time and the strategy your parents took might have been the best approach.

Sometimes bullies need a bit of retaliation. At one school I attended as a youngster a boy menaced a teacher with a compass (those pointy maths apparatus not the directional one) and was suspended for a time. That rarely happens now. I am not sure why we are all so tippy toe around bullying behaviours. To be frank there is a point where the bully has to tow the line or get out. That is a valuable life experience too.

I think we have become too soft on bullies overall and while I agree that the experiences we have at school help shape us and provide a good foundation for coping with adversity after school life, there also has to be an understanding that the more aggressive and threatening behaviours are not going to be tolerated. A no-tolerance policy does more in the long term for the bully just as much as providing a safe environment for children IMO.

It is the lack of boundaries that promote bullying. Some kids just don't see reason no matter how many questions you might ask them.

There are bullies in the adult workplace too but that does not mean it should be ignored just because it is character shaping.

You need someone to say some prayers for your heart Houllebecq.

Valid points, vanna. That's probably part of why I've never heard a teacher argue that they don't have a duty of care. I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. (I think) we agree on a few salient points:

1) teachers who ignore bullying are failing to provide adequate care.

2) teachers who take inadequate steps to prevent bullying are failing to provide adequate care.

3) schools that do not enforce their anti-bullying policies and do not take disciplinary action against teachers who do not provide adequate care are also failing to provide adequate care.

What we disagree on is the frequency with which this occurs. I take it from your frequent attacks on teachers at every opportunity that you have had some pretty negative experiences with teachers and/or the educational system as a whole. I suspect that this has coloured your views of teachers, teaching, the educational system and schools. I, too, have had experiences with some very bad teachers and some who are negligent. I have simply found those teachers to be in the minority. Get rid of them by all means.

Otokonoko,

If the frequency rate of bullying in the school is too high, then the teachers close the school.

It is no different to shutting down a factory if safety issues occur. As a supervisory in a factory, I shut down the factory on many occosians because it was not safe to continue, or took equipment offline if it was unsafe, and it was expected that I do this, and other supervisors did the same.

Teachers should not think that bullying only occurs in schools. It is possible to occur in any workplace, but normally the supervisor puts the lid on it at a vary early stage, and it is done quickly and subtlely.

If someone is carrying out bullying, no hand can be laid on that person, and no inappropiate words can be used, or the unions might go on strike.

So the supervisor has to have strategies to handle the bullying, without dismissing the worker or using any type of corporal or overt punishment.

weareunique,

Oh.

God botherer.

That explains it.

Don't be upset, I'm sure all the other kids are just jealous of your saintly kids and pious life. They'll all burn in hell! Every one of them!

What you're saying makes sense, vanna, though I do have a few more questions.

1) You mention taking equipment offline if it is unsafe. Surely the equivalent to this - in a school sense - is suspension? We take the dangerous component (in this case, a dangerous student) away until such a time as it is no longer dangerous?

2) I've been thinking about the comparison to industry, and I can't help thinking that a retail rather than industrial model would suit a school better. I know the same laws apply in all contexts, but the way they are put into action differ across settings. I have served on safety committees in both retail and school settings. In both retail and education, the physical environment and equipment present one set of risks, while the clientele presents another. As you know, the action taken in response to a risk depends on the likelihood of an incident occurring and the magnitude of that potential incident. When a customer punches another customer, s/he is removed from the store and/or referred to the police. The store isn't shut down unless the risk is beyond control. Surely a similarly appropriate action in a school would be to remove the aggressor until it is clear that the risk no longer exists - i.e. suspension?

3) I do like your point about talking to wrongdoers and asking questions, but I think it's only part of a solution. That's the restorative side, but there must also be a punishment. I doubt a parent whose son or daughter was brutally bashed would be satisfied that duty of care had been carried out if they found out that the offender had a string of similar offences in his past, and had faced no consequences other than questioning. Do you agree? If not, can you help me to understand why not? If so, what other punishments - given that you've ruled out detention, suspension and expulsion - would you suggest?